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Stock Market Under Trump


(03-09-2020, 08:24 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote:
(03-09-2020, 05:56 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: It depends on what oil companies you bought.  Some of them are going to go bankrupt.
Every companies goes bankrupt eventually, but I doubt any of the big 4 are going any time this decade.
If you buy oil companies with strong balance sheets, I think in the long run you will be okay.  But there will be a lot of companies that go bankrupt with oil at this price level and demand falling.
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Companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Amazon are basically "on sale" right now.  I'm also looking at Lowes and Home Depot.  I would stay away from anything in the service or travel industry right now, ie. cruise lines, airlines and hotels.  They are not going to have good Q2 numbers.  I would also be VERY cautious about buying in to the energy sector or financial sector.  Banks and oil companies are getting hammered right now.

As I have stated many times before, I rarely buy individual stocks and focus more on sectors.  Right now the tech sector and perhaps some consumer staples and materials/industrials might be a decent play.  Consumer staples is more-or-less the "safer play" though it tends to lag behind a rising market (which I think will happen).

Once I see a bit of stability in the market I'll ease back in on a limited basis.


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(03-10-2020, 05:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(03-09-2020, 08:24 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: Every companies goes bankrupt eventually, but I doubt any of the big 4 are going any time this decade.
If you buy oil companies with strong balance sheets, I think in the long run you will be okay.  But there will be a lot of companies that go bankrupt with oil at this price level and demand falling.

The reduction in demand is a short term phenomena IMO. And while I love cheap gas, it won't stay that way into the summer. Either way, cheap oil will decrease costs for flight, shipping, transport and travel. Plus the tons of petroleum based plastics out there. It boosts the economy all on its own, thereby increasing its own demand.

I think people have minimal idea how built on oil our whole society is. Consumer vehicles are like 5% of the demand. 

Anyhow, I agree that long term, oil is great buy right now. I mean people would have killed in the past to get 9% dividend yield from Exxon, its a blue chip.


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(03-10-2020, 03:35 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote:
(03-10-2020, 05:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: If you buy oil companies with strong balance sheets, I think in the long run you will be okay.  But there will be a lot of companies that go bankrupt with oil at this price level and demand falling.

The reduction in demand is a short term phenomena IMO. And while I love cheap gas, it won't stay that way into the summer. Either way, cheap oil will decrease costs for flight, shipping, transport and travel. Plus the tons of petroleum based plastics out there. It boosts the economy all on its own, thereby increasing its own demand.

I think people have minimal idea how built on oil our whole society is. Consumer vehicles are like 5% of the demand. 

Anyhow, I agree that long term, oil is great buy right now. I mean people would have killed in the past to get 9% dividend yield from Exxon, its a blue chip.

I would be very cautious.  With oil below +/- $30-$35 per barrel will cause many companies to go under.  It also affects the banks since many of these companies depend on loans to operate.  Banks are going to be hurting from defaulted loans as well as the interest rates being so low.

In the long term you might be alright, but it's not something very attractive to me at this point.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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(This post was last modified: 03-10-2020, 04:56 PM by The Real Marty.)

(03-10-2020, 03:35 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote:
(03-10-2020, 05:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: If you buy oil companies with strong balance sheets, I think in the long run you will be okay.  But there will be a lot of companies that go bankrupt with oil at this price level and demand falling.

The reduction in demand is a short term phenomena IMO. And while I love cheap gas, it won't stay that way into the summer. Either way, cheap oil will decrease costs for flight, shipping, transport and travel. Plus the tons of petroleum based plastics out there. It boosts the economy all on its own, thereby increasing its own demand.

I think people have minimal idea how built on oil our whole society is. Consumer vehicles are like 5% of the demand. 

Anyhow, I agree that long term, oil is great buy right now. I mean people would have killed in the past to get 9% dividend yield from Exxon, its a blue chip.

Exxon has a very strong balance sheet, and it will survive any oil recession and probably absorb some of its competitors, but the one thing to watch out for is, Exxon is currently borrowing to pay that dividend.  They are going against the grain and unlike other big oil companies are spending huge amounts on exploration, and that's why they are borrowing to pay the dividend.  But why are they spending so much on exploration when oil prices are so low?  That's the big question- do they have the right strategy. 

The thing that comes to mind for me is, with oil prices so low, and banks under so much pressure as a result of large loans to oil companies, will Exxon be able to continue to borrow and pay that dividend?   Investors including banks might decide to pull back on all this lending to oil companies or demand higher interest rates for loans.  

Exxon at this price is probably a good buy if you are willing to hold it for at least 5 years.  That's my opinion.  I am often wrong.

The one to watch out for is Occidental.  That company is in danger.
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(03-10-2020, 04:42 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(03-10-2020, 03:35 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: The reduction in demand is a short term phenomena IMO. And while I love cheap gas, it won't stay that way into the summer. Either way, cheap oil will decrease costs for flight, shipping, transport and travel. Plus the tons of petroleum based plastics out there. It boosts the economy all on its own, thereby increasing its own demand.

I think people have minimal idea how built on oil our whole society is. Consumer vehicles are like 5% of the demand. 

Anyhow, I agree that long term, oil is great buy right now. I mean people would have killed in the past to get 9% dividend yield from Exxon, its a blue chip.

Exxon has a very strong balance sheet, and it will survive any oil recession and probably absorb some of its competitors, but the one thing to watch out for is, Exxon is currently borrowing to pay that dividend.  They are going against the grain and unlike other big oil companies are spending huge amounts on exploration, and that's why they are borrowing to pay the dividend.  But why are they spending so much on exploration when oil prices are so low?  That's the big question- do they have the right strategy. 

The thing that comes to mind for me is, with oil prices so low, and banks under so much pressure as a result of large loans to oil companies, will Exxon be able to continue to borrow and pay that dividend?   Investors including banks might decide to pull back on all this lending to oil companies or demand higher interest rates for loans.  

Exxon at this price is probably a good buy if you are willing to hold it for at least 5 years.  That's my opinion.  I am often wrong.

The one to watch out for is Occidental.  That company is in danger.

Buying individual stocks is not for lazy people like me.  There's way too much work involved, and I don't think I will ever know as much about any company as the big boys on Wall Street who will always be ahead of me and know things before I know them.  I'd rather just buy an index fund and go play golf or something.

I agree.  The same thing could be said about (insert oil company here).  The success/failure of oil companies is closely tied to the banks.

 A while back I brought up the 10 year treasury number and it was dismissed as "not important" but it is.  At the time I think it fell to around 1.6% (just a few months ago).  Today that number is less than 1% (.75 last time I looked) and fell to less than .3%.  This number is important.  The more that it falls the "cheaper" mortgage rates are and the "cheaper" it is to borrow money.  Businesses rely on borrowing money all the time.  I'm not talking about big corporations though they do it as well, I'm talking small businesses and farmers.  The problem is that loaning that money at such low rates hurts the bottom line of banks.  If//when there are defaults on the loans the banks go under.  It's a "domino effect". 

Some people on here are so quick to want to buy into the cruise lines (specifically Carnival) since it lost so much.  I don't see the stock price recovering anytime soon between this "virus" mess as well as what is happening with oil and the banks.  One must take the blinders off and look at the big picture.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Trump is talking. Markets are sinking
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(This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 11:01 AM by The Real Marty.)

It is notable that even with the hard decline in stocks we have seen, the market is still overpriced based on historical PE ratios.   And if the E in the PEs goes down, as it surely will, then the market will have to go down even further in order to reach an average price based on the PE ratios.

This whole deal is a black swan hitting a very overpriced market.
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(03-12-2020, 11:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: It is notable that even with the hard decline in stocks we have seen, the market is still overpriced based on historical PE ratios.   And if the E in the PEs goes down, as it surely will, then the market will have to go down even further in order to reach an average price based on the PE ratios.

This whole deal is a black swan hitting a very overpriced market.

I agree.  I have been making a list of stocks that I think are "on sale" right now that I may start stepping into soon depending on how things go.  For the short-term (< than 6 months) I don't see any real big gains, however in the long run there are some stocks/sectors that should recover quicker/better than others.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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(03-12-2020, 01:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(03-12-2020, 11:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: It is notable that even with the hard decline in stocks we have seen, the market is still overpriced based on historical PE ratios.   And if the E in the PEs goes down, as it surely will, then the market will have to go down even further in order to reach an average price based on the PE ratios.

This whole deal is a black swan hitting a very overpriced market.

I agree.  I have been making a list of stocks that I think are "on sale" right now that I may start stepping into soon depending on how things go.  For the short-term (< than 6 months) I don't see any real big gains, however in the long run there are some stocks/sectors that should recover quicker/better than others.

Out of curiosity, what sectors would you expect to recover faster?
I'll play you in ping pong. 
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(03-12-2020, 01:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: I agree.  I have been making a list of stocks that I think are "on sale" right now that I may start stepping into soon depending on how things go.  For the short-term (< than 6 months) I don't see any real big gains, however in the long run there are some stocks/sectors that should recover quicker/better than others.

I'll save you the trouble of making a list

https://www.zyxware.com/articles/4344/li...r-websites
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(03-12-2020, 01:47 PM)Gabe Wrote:
(03-12-2020, 01:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: I agree.  I have been making a list of stocks that I think are "on sale" right now that I may start stepping into soon depending on how things go.  For the short-term (< than 6 months) I don't see any real big gains, however in the long run there are some stocks/sectors that should recover quicker/better than others.

Out of curiosity, what sectors would you expect to recover faster?

I like technology the most.  Companies like Micro$oft, Amazon, Netflix, etc. are not going to take near the hit that other companies are taking.  I also think that real estate could do well with the lower interest rates so I would look into some of the better performing REITs.  As I have said in other posts, consumer staples would be "safe", yet that particular sector tends to lag behind the overall market.  This is companies like Procter & Gamble, Walmart, Costco, etc.  basically things that consumers are still going to use on a daily basis.

Finally, look at the consumer discretionary sector but be selective about it.  This includes companies like Home Depot, McDonald's, eBay and Amazon.

Basically I am looking for companies that won't be affected as much with the down turn in the market.  They should still be able to turn in good quarterly earnings and not have a bunch of losses.

I would stay away from most anything travel related, at least for now.  Their Q2 and Q3 earnings are going to be disappointing.  Eventually they will recover, but I don't like it right now.  This basically includes any airlines, hotels, cruise lines and some theme parks (Disney was pretty strong but is going to end up with bad earnings reports).  Now over time (>5 years) these should recover, but don't look for anything good in the short-to-mid-term.

Now in my opinion, anyone less than say 50 years of age that has the opportunity to contribute to a 401k plan offered by their employer should do so, especially if the company offers to match any of the contributions.  A 401k should be handled differently than an IRA (which is what I have).  Put the money into it, select your investment(s) and don't look at it.  Even in this down market you are buying low and over time it will increase.


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(This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 02:42 PM by Byron LeftTown.)

JIB, didn't they teach you not to catch a falling knife? This market is a falling chainsaw. Pick it up after it hits the ground and stops spinning.
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(03-12-2020, 02:00 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:
(03-12-2020, 01:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: I agree.  I have been making a list of stocks that I think are "on sale" right now that I may start stepping into soon depending on how things go.  For the short-term (< than 6 months) I don't see any real big gains, however in the long run there are some stocks/sectors that should recover quicker/better than others.

I'll save you the trouble of making a list

https://www.zyxware.com/articles/4344/li...r-websites

Meh...  I would rather do my own research and make may own list.  I've done pretty well thus far so I'll stick with what I have been doing.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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(This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 02:53 PM by Gabe.)

(03-12-2020, 02:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(03-12-2020, 01:47 PM)Gabe Wrote: Out of curiosity, what sectors would you expect to recover faster?

I like technology the most.  Companies like Micro$oft, Amazon, Netflix, etc. are not going to take near the hit that other companies are taking.  I also think that real estate could do well with the lower interest rates so I would look into some of the better performing REITs.  As I have said in other posts, consumer staples would be "safe", yet that particular sector tends to lag behind the overall market.  This is companies like Procter & Gamble, Walmart, Costco, etc.  basically things that consumers are still going to use on a daily basis.

Finally, look at the consumer discretionary sector but be selective about it.  This includes companies like Home Depot, McDonald's, eBay and Amazon.

Basically I am looking for companies that won't be affected as much with the down turn in the market.  They should still be able to turn in good quarterly earnings and not have a bunch of losses.

I would stay away from most anything travel related, at least for now.  Their Q2 and Q3 earnings are going to be disappointing.  Eventually they will recover, but I don't like it right now.  This basically includes any airlines, hotels, cruise lines and some theme parks (Disney was pretty strong but is going to end up with bad earnings reports).  Now over time (>5 years) these should recover, but don't look for anything good in the short-to-mid-term.

Now in my opinion, anyone less than say 50 years of age that has the opportunity to contribute to a 401k plan offered by their employer should do so, especially if the company offers to match any of the contributions.  A 401k should be handled differently than an IRA (which is what I have).  Put the money into it, select your investment(s) and don't look at it.  Even in this down market you are buying low and over time it will increase.

This me. 403(b) currently from Flagler that matches up to 5% with a 12% employee contribution limit and an IRA. IRA was a rollover from a previous 8-year 403(b) where FSU matched me up to 6% and a 15% employee contribution limit. 

Following the closure of the biz in Tally, I don't have the capacity, nor the stones, to really get involved in the market beyond the above...yet
I'll play you in ping pong. 
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(03-12-2020, 02:49 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(03-12-2020, 02:00 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: I'll save you the trouble of making a list

https://www.zyxware.com/articles/4344/li...r-websites

Meh...  I would rather do my own research and make may own list.  I've done pretty well thus far so I'll stick with what I have been doing.

It was a joke .... a list of every Fortune 500 Company because for the most part, they are all tanking.
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Who was it that wanted to buy Carnival?

17.30 USD −4.47 (20.76%)
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(This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 03:57 PM by StroudCrowd1.)

(03-12-2020, 03:48 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: Who was it that wanted to buy Carnival?  

17.30 USD −4.47 (20.76%)

Nope, its actually [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]14.80[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.62)] USD[/color][/color] −6.94 (31.93%)

Buy Buy Buy!!!!

It may actually be free tomorrow.
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Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
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(03-12-2020, 04:44 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

In n out. Easy Peasy.
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