This gives you 0 credibility.  Look at the wins and the few pro bowlers we have had in his time here.
Again I get it some people are blind and will always believe the brass has been good.  Caldwell took the helm in what 2013, 2014?   To almost every expert, we were one of if not the worst NFL team of the decade.  Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

You do realize that talent doesn't always end up as wins right? Piss poor coaches are going to result in losses no matter how good your team is. Look at Myles Jack for instance. Him playing MLB is way out of his realm and it showed horribly. Does that mean he isn't talented? 

We've had alot of talent in Jacksonville, just because we haven't put up W's doesn't mean we don't. I've never once said the front office has been good. I'm here pointing out good things that have happened for the sake of the debate. Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

Indeed.
The talent was there in 2017. That team was built almost solely by Caldwell (prior to Coughlin arriving). About half of the contributors were draft picks and half were FAs. And ever since that season the talent on the team has been ushered out (or forced their way out, or just left) or gotten old and not replaced properly.
Which definitely falls on Caldwell (and Coughlin). As I've said... he hasn't been good enough for his entire tenure. But these kids acting like he's been dreadful his entire career is silly. The W/L column isn't on the GM solely. The coaches have been called out by players and fans for awful schemes and usage of players and play calling on offense constantly. 

Could we get better from our GM and front office? I believe so. But there are posters on here pounding away at the keyboard pretending like it couldn't be any worse. It most definitely could be.
Teams like the Skins, Browns, Jets, Raiders and Phins and even Tampa Bay have bungled their rosters way worse over the last 7-8 years. And some of them seemingly swap out GMs every 2-3 years with not much getting better.
I was ready for a fresh change at GM this past off season. Thought it would happen too. But not because Caldwell has been down right terrible for 7 years, more so because he's been okay. And just okay won't fix poor coaching picks, or a whiff at QB in the top 5. And Coughlin probably compounded it by hitching our hopes to high priced free agents. We should have started fresh this season but for a handful of seasons prior to Caldwell our team wasn't even watchable. Once Bortles was in his sophomore season our games were watchable at least, even if we still lost a bunch. And then 2017 happened, which for teams like the Browns and Jets and Tampa is more than they've seen for over 10 years.

Anywho... this discussion has deteriorated quite a bit into arguing over semantics of "just how bad" Caldwell was. I don't think anyone was saying he's been great, or even good. Just not as bad as some posters would claim.

---

You do realize that talent doesn't always end up as wins right? Piss poor coaches are going to result in losses no matter how good your team is. Look at Myles Jack for instance. Him playing MLB is way out of his realm and it showed horribly. Does that mean he isn't talented? 

We've had alot of talent in Jacksonville, just because we haven't put up W's doesn't mean we don't. I've never once said the front office has been good. I'm here pointing out good things that have happened for the sake of the debate. Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

Indeed.
The talent was there in 2017. That team was built almost solely by Caldwell (prior to Coughlin arriving). About half of the contributors were draft picks and half were FAs. And ever since that season the talent on the team has been ushered out (or forced their way out, or just left) or gotten old and not replaced properly.
Which definitely falls on Caldwell (and Coughlin). As I've said... he hasn't been good enough for his entire tenure. But these kids acting like he's been dreadful his entire career is silly. The W/L column isn't on the GM solely. The coaches have been called out by players and fans for awful schemes and usage of players and play calling on offense constantly. 

Could we get better from our GM and front office? I believe so. But there are posters on here pounding away at the keyboard pretending like it couldn't be any worse. It most definitely could be.
Teams like the Skins, Browns, Jets, Raiders and Phins and even Tampa Bay have bungled their rosters way worse over the last 7-8 years. And some of them seemingly swap out GMs every 2-3 years with not much getting better.
I was ready for a fresh change at GM this past off season. Thought it would happen too. But not because Caldwell has been down right terrible for 7 years, more so because he's been okay. And just okay won't fix poor coaching picks, or a whiff at QB in the top 5. And Coughlin probably compounded it by hitching our hopes to high priced free agents. We should have started fresh this season but for a handful of seasons prior to Caldwell our team wasn't even watchable. Once Bortles was in his sophomore season our games were watchable at least, even if we still lost a bunch. And then 2017 happened, which for teams like the Browns and Jets and Tampa is more than they've seen for over 10 years.

Anywho... this discussion has deteriorated quite a bit into arguing over semantics of "just how bad" Caldwell was. I don't think anyone was saying he's been great, or even good. Just not as bad as some posters would claim.

+1

---

In Dougie I Trust!

This gives you 0 credibility.  Look at the wins and the few pro bowlers we have had in his time here.
Again I get it some people are blind and will always believe the brass has been good.  Caldwell took the helm in what 2013, 2014?   To almost every expert, we were one of if not the worst NFL team of the decade.  Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

You do realize that talent doesn't always end up as wins right? Piss poor coaches are going to result in losses no matter how good your team is. Look at Myles Jack for instance. Him playing MLB is way out of his realm and it showed horribly. Does that mean he isn't talented? 

We've had alot of talent in Jacksonville, just because we haven't put up W's doesn't mean we don't. I've never once said the front office has been good. I'm here pointing out good things that have happened for the sake of the debate. Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

If you really beleive that David Caldwell is a good GM, there is no point in arguing with you.

---

You do realize that talent doesn't always end up as wins right? Piss poor coaches are going to result in losses no matter how good your team is. Look at Myles Jack for instance. Him playing MLB is way out of his realm and it showed horribly. Does that mean he isn't talented? 

We've had alot of talent in Jacksonville, just because we haven't put up W's doesn't mean we don't. I've never once said the front office has been good. I'm here pointing out good things that have happened for the sake of the debate. Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

Indeed.
The talent was there in 2017. That team was built almost solely by Caldwell (prior to Coughlin arriving). About half of the contributors were draft picks and half were FAs. And ever since that season the talent on the team has been ushered out (or forced their way out, or just left) or gotten old and not replaced properly.
Which definitely falls on Caldwell (and Coughlin). As I've said... he hasn't been good enough for his entire tenure. But these kids acting like he's been dreadful his entire career is silly. The W/L column isn't on the GM solely. The coaches have been called out by players and fans for awful schemes and usage of players and play calling on offense constantly. 

Could we get better from our GM and front office? I believe so. But there are posters on here pounding away at the keyboard pretending like it couldn't be any worse. It most definitely could be.
Teams like the Skins, Browns, Jets, Raiders and Phins and even Tampa Bay have bungled their rosters way worse over the last 7-8 years. And some of them seemingly swap out GMs every 2-3 years with not much getting better.
I was ready for a fresh change at GM this past off season. Thought it would happen too. But not because Caldwell has been down right terrible for 7 years, more so because he's been okay. And just okay won't fix poor coaching picks, or a whiff at QB in the top 5. And Coughlin probably compounded it by hitching our hopes to high priced free agents. We should have started fresh this season but for a handful of seasons prior to Caldwell our team wasn't even watchable. Once Bortles was in his sophomore season our games were watchable at least, even if we still lost a bunch. And then 2017 happened, which for teams like the Browns and Jets and Tampa is more than they've seen for over 10 years.

Anywho... this discussion has deteriorated quite a bit into arguing over semantics of "just how bad" Caldwell was. I don't think anyone was saying he's been great, or even good. Just not as bad as some posters would claim.

Outside of Gene Smith,  It is very hard to imagine a GM doing worse with all the firepower we had.  This team had so much draft capital and so much cap room.  Without Coughlin I do not believe 2017 happens.   Hey, Ignorance is bliss.  I personally believe a GM doing a good job has the right coach and a good talented team.

---

You do realize that talent doesn't always end up as wins right? Piss poor coaches are going to result in losses no matter how good your team is. Look at Myles Jack for instance. Him playing MLB is way out of his realm and it showed horribly. Does that mean he isn't talented? 

We've had alot of talent in Jacksonville, just because we haven't put up W's doesn't mean we don't. I've never once said the front office has been good. I'm here pointing out good things that have happened for the sake of the debate. Cmon man, stop making stuff up.

If you really beleive that David Caldwell is a good GM, there is no point in arguing with you.

Are you seriously this dense? Show me one spot i said David Caldwell was a good GM. This is a debate, a debate requires both sides of the disagreement. All I have simply done is pointed out some of the positives he has done to counter your negatives. That in no way shape or form is me saying he IS a good GM. Its a debate. Stop trying to say I'm saying he is good or bad. It's a simple debate dude.

---

In Dougie I Trust!

If you really beleive that David Caldwell is a good GM, there is no point in arguing with you.

Are you seriously this dense? Show me one spot i said David Caldwell was a good GM. This is a debate, a debate requires both sides of the disagreement. All I have simply done is pointed out some of the positives he has done to counter your negatives. That in no way shape or form is me saying he IS a good GM. Its a debate. Stop trying to say I'm saying he is good or bad. It's a simple debate dude.

You could point at the positives in anything.  Gene Smith done a couple of good things here. What is the point?  Did I say that he was the worst GM of all time and has done nothing good?  No.  The point is he is a Bad GM.  If you agree with me, I do not understand the point of your original statement.  Are you that dense?

---

Dave Caldwell is probably going to end up in history as the 2nd worst GM of all time.  Only Matt Miller has ever been worse.  Yes - he's seriously that bad.  What other team would keep a GM around after having 1 winning season in the past decade?  

It's not like the Jags are going to be SB contenders this year.  Just another lose season, another lost opportunity.

---

Dave Caldwell is probably going to end up in history as the 2nd worst GM of all time.  Only Matt Miller has ever been worse.  Yes - he's seriously that bad.  What other team would keep a GM around after having 1 winning season in the past decade?  

It's not like the Jags are going to be SB contenders this year.  Just another lose season, another lost opportunity.

He's not even second worst in this franchise.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Are you seriously this dense? Show me one spot i said David Caldwell was a good GM. This is a debate, a debate requires both sides of the disagreement. All I have simply done is pointed out some of the positives he has done to counter your negatives. That in no way shape or form is me saying he IS a good GM. Its a debate. Stop trying to say I'm saying he is good or bad. It's a simple debate dude.

You could point at the positives in anything.  Gene Smith done a couple of good things here. What is the point?  Did I say that he was the worst GM of all time and has done nothing good?  No.  The point is he is a Bad GM.  If you agree with me, I do not understand the point of your original statement.  Are you that dense?

You really don't understand what a debate is do you?

My feelings on Caldwell aren't that hes great or terrible. I think hes done a good job in some areas and failed in others. Had he not wiffed so badly on Bradley and Bortles i think our conversation would be totally different, but it happens. Outside of those 2 mistakes, i don't think hes made a whole bunch of bad choices. Them bringing Coughlin in was good enough for a one good season before everything come unraveled and its hard not to point at Coughlin for the majority of what Caldwell built up to no longer be here. So me personally, i don't feel he should be crucified for 2 mistakes that very well could of went either way. 

Bradley was a great defensive coach. You don't really know what you have until the person is put in the position and the heat gets turned on. He failed and he failed miserably, but i don't remember too many people completely hating the idea of Bradley being named the head coach. Yes, his tenure was way too long. Should of been cut sooner. 

As for Bortles, yes he was a bad pick. We reached pretty far for him. But when you find a QB that you like, you swing for the fences. I was atleast happy he was willing to take the chance. If the pick turns out great, you are looked at as legendary. It wasn't like Bortles was looked at by everyone in the league as a 3rd or 4th round. I'm pretty sure he was projected later in the 1st. 


But to sum it up, Caldwell has made mistakes. Sadly big ones that hurt the franchise for years. The 2 positions that were affected most imo in Head Coach and Quarterback are the 2 biggest make or break for any team. It wasn't like he made those positions way worse than what we had, they were already garbage to begin with. Since Khan has decided to keep him on board for atleast this year, I'm fine with it. As we have seen in the past, it actually can be much worse. Hopefully Minshew turns out to be the real deal and half of his issue would be fixed. Sadly, I'm not a fan of Marrone and Minshews success would more than likely save his job but winning makes everyone look better.

---

In Dougie I Trust!

Dave Caldwell is a great scout IMO but a terrible GM.

---

Dave Caldwell is a great scout IMO but a terrible GM.

I like his Salary Cap strategy of bringing players in on 2-year contracts so the Jags aren't strung out in future years.

That said, this was supposed to be the dilemma period where we had too much talent to fit under the cap --- wow, how that concept changed since 2017.

---

This thread should be titled Is Caldwell Really that Good.

Let's go through the motions of reality. Caldwell as the Jaguar's GM literally built us an Damn good team w/respect to Fowler, Ramsey, AR15, Campbell, Jack, T. Smith, LF27 plus some. It wasnt until Coughlin came into the frey to which the wheels fell off the wagon. In addition to that, look at what Caldwell has accomplished since the departure of Coughlin w/respect to the salary cap. In my personal opinion Caldwell has performed Very Well when he makes the final decisions.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

---

"AZANE"

This thread should be titled Is Caldwell Really that Good.

Let's go through the motions of reality. Caldwell as the Jaguar's GM literally built us an Damn good team w/respect to Fowler, Ramsey, AR15, Campbell, Jack, T. Smith, LF27 plus some. It wasnt until Coughlin came into the frey to which the wheels fell off the wagon. In addition to that, look at what Caldwell has accomplished since the departure of Coughlin w/respect to the salary cap. In my personal opinion Caldwell has performed Very Well when he makes the final decisions.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

the Jags GM built us a team so "good" it wasn't even slightly sustainable and didn't achieve anything until Tom came into the fold. 

people have such slanted views on Caldwell simply because they don't know what a good FO looks like relative to the rest of the league.

---

Another guy agrees caldwell is good and a competent GM:

---

This thread should be titled Is Caldwell Really that Good.

Let's go through the motions of reality. Caldwell as the Jaguar's GM literally built us an Damn good team w/respect to Fowler, Ramsey, AR15, Campbell, Jack, T. Smith, LF27 plus some. It wasnt until Coughlin came into the frey to which the wheels fell off the wagon. In addition to that, look at what Caldwell has accomplished since the departure of Coughlin w/respect to the salary cap. In my personal opinion Caldwell has performed Very Well when he makes the final decisions.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

This thread should be titled Is Caldwell Really that Good.

Let's go through the motions of reality. Caldwell as the Jaguar's GM literally built us an Damn good team w/respect to Fowler, Ramsey, AR15, Campbell, Jack, T. Smith, LF27 plus some. It wasnt until Coughlin came into the frey to which the wheels fell off the wagon. In addition to that, look at what Caldwell has accomplished since the departure of Coughlin w/respect to the salary cap. In my personal opinion Caldwell has performed Very Well when he makes the final decisions.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

the Jags GM built us a team so "good" it wasn't even slightly sustainable and didn't achieve anything until Tom came into the fold. 

people have such slanted views on Caldwell simply because they don't know what a good FO looks like relative to the rest of the league.

That's your opinion/observation and I respect that. The fact still remains that our playoff year (2017) was Tom's first year back w/the team. He made little to no personnel decisions that would reflect the team. The scouting reports were already in. What he did do was push key players such as I mentioned away w/his Old School ways of doing things and it dismantled the team that Caldwell built for the past four years. 

I feel that Caldwell will again build us an stellar team as long as he's making the final decisions to which Mr. Khan feels the same way.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

---

"AZANE"

the Jags GM built us a team so "good" it wasn't even slightly sustainable and didn't achieve anything until Tom came into the fold. 

people have such slanted views on Caldwell simply because they don't know what a good FO looks like relative to the rest of the league.

That's your opinion/observation and I respect that. The fact still remains that our playoff year (2017) was Tom's first year back w/the team. He made little to no personnel decisions that would reflect the team. The scouting reports were already in. What he did do was push key players such as I mentioned away w/his Old School ways of doing things and it dismantled the team that Caldwell built for the past four years. 

I feel that Caldwell will again build us an stellar team as long as he's making the final decisions to which Mr. Khan feels the same way.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

This guy   

Time will tell

iHaunting Raven...

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

the Jags GM built us a team so "good" it wasn't even slightly sustainable and didn't achieve anything until Tom came into the fold. 

people have such slanted views on Caldwell simply because they don't know what a good FO looks like relative to the rest of the league.

That's your opinion/observation and I respect that. The fact still remains that our playoff year (2017) was Tom's first year back w/the team. He made little to no personnel decisions that would reflect the team. The scouting reports were already in. What he did do was push key players such as I mentioned away w/his Old School ways of doing things and it dismantled the team that Caldwell built for the past four years. 

I feel that Caldwell will again build us an stellar team as long as he's making the final decisions to which Mr. Khan feels the same way.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

your first paragraph is not actually based on any evidence. Tom most certainly did have his finger prints on the team year 1, numerous reports about that regarding draft/FA/philosophy/personnel decisions. 

And yes I don't think Tom did a good job either, in fact quite the opposite. But people love playing both sides of the Caldwell argument and excuse him for things went wrong but give him credit for the ones than went right. 

The reality is the team Caldwell and Tom "built", was not even slightly sustainable with massive holes on offense. So it's a myth that Caldwell built some powerhouse Tom tore down

---

That's your opinion/observation and I respect that. The fact still remains that our playoff year (2017) was Tom's first year back w/the team. He made little to no personnel decisions that would reflect the team. The scouting reports were already in. What he did do was push key players such as I mentioned away w/his Old School ways of doing things and it dismantled the team that Caldwell built for the past four years. 

I feel that Caldwell will again build us an stellar team as long as he's making the final decisions to which Mr. Khan feels the same way.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

your first paragraph is not actually based on any evidence. Tom most certainly did have his finger prints on the team year 1, numerous reports about that regarding draft/FA/philosophy/personnel decisions. 

And yes I don't think Tom did a good job either, in fact quite the opposite. But people love playing both sides of the Caldwell argument and excuse him for things went wrong but give him credit for the ones than went right. 

The reality is the team Caldwell and Tom "built", was not even slightly sustainable with massive holes on offense. So it's a myth that Caldwell built some powerhouse Tom tore down

Let's just spell this out plainly. 

Caldwell built a talent rich defensive roster and Tom played a major role in its demise. (Yan&Ramsey) 

The offensive side of the ball and the overall staff was still found lacking regardless of Caldwell and Coughlin's efforts.

---

your first paragraph is not actually based on any evidence. Tom most certainly did have his finger prints on the team year 1, numerous reports about that regarding draft/FA/philosophy/personnel decisions. 

And yes I don't think Tom did a good job either, in fact quite the opposite. But people love playing both sides of the Caldwell argument and excuse him for things went wrong but give him credit for the ones than went right. 

The reality is the team Caldwell and Tom "built", was not even slightly sustainable with massive holes on offense. So it's a myth that Caldwell built some powerhouse Tom tore down

Let's just spell this out plainly. 

Caldwell built a talent rich defensive roster and Tom played a major role in its demise. (Yan&Ramsey) 

The offensive side of the ball and the overall staff was still found lacking regardless of Caldwell and Coughlin's efforts.

Yes I'm not sure where I've wrote the defensive talent wasn't very good

---