I'm hoping Caldwell has learned enough through all of this to realize
that at least wash needs to go  .... and I hope marrone as well.
It would help a lot with his rep.
Promoting Gruden and letting him revise the coaching staff for 2021 would only mean good things.

Personally i think OC is his calling. His HC stint in Washington was pretty bad. I'd prefer we kept him as OC and kept this offense trending the way it is. But no doubt I feel we need a DC for sure.

Truthfully they were a middling team on the rise until the FO forced Haskins on him after Alex Smith got broke in 2018. What you call "pretty bad" would be a step up for this organization.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I’m torn on Marrone; his seeming lack of discipline with the penalties that kill drives is frustrating. His turtle job in the second half of the afc championship game still infuriates me.

But for his overall record, you are only as good as your QB. And look what he had to work with pre-Minshew. Bortles and Kessler would never cut it in the long run. Rumor has it that the FO made him start Foles last year when he returned. Should he be given a chance with Minshew if this season they show progress? I don’t know; I mean, Belichick tanked in Cleveland with no franchise QB; it’s actually eerily similar to how marrone has done so far: one playoff season and four bad ones:

1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11 (fired)
2000: 5-11
2001, pre Brady: 0-2

He then goes to NE and was tanking there until a 6th round QB came out of nowhere and changed the fortunes of the franchise forever...hmmmm

---

I’m torn on Marrone; his seeming  lack of discipline with the penalties that kill drives is frustrating. His turtle job in the second half of the afc championship game still infuriates me.

But for his overall record, you are only as good as your QB. And look what he had to work with pre-Minshew. Bortles and Kessler would never cut it in the long run. Rumor has it that the FO made him start Foles last year when he returned. Should he be given a chance with Minshew if this season they show progress? I don’t know; I mean, Belichick tanked in Cleveland with no franchise QB; it’s actually eerily similar to how marrone has done so far: one playoff season and four bad ones:

1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11 (fired)
2000: 5-11
2001, pre Brady: 0-2

He then goes to NE and was tanking there until a 6th round QB came out of nowhere and changed the fortunes of the franchise forever...hmmmm

Wow...

Belichick had a winning season with Matt freaking Cassel
BB is one of the best ever in bringing out the best out of his players


Marrone and BB are nothing alike.
There is absolutely no point in comparing them.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

I’m torn on Marrone; his seeming  lack of discipline with the penalties that kill drives is frustrating. His turtle job in the second half of the afc championship game still infuriates me.

But for his overall record, you are only as good as your QB. And look what he had to work with pre-Minshew. Bortles and Kessler would never cut it in the long run. Rumor has it that the FO made him start Foles last year when he returned. Should he be given a chance with Minshew if this season they show progress? I don’t know; I mean, Belichick tanked in Cleveland with no franchise QB; it’s actually eerily similar to how marrone has done so far: one playoff season and four bad ones:

1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11 (fired)
2000: 5-11
2001, pre Brady: 0-2

He then goes to NE and was tanking there until a 6th round QB came out of nowhere and changed the fortunes of the franchise forever...hmmmm

Wow...

Belichick had a winning season with Matt freaking Cassel
BB is one of the best ever in bringing out the best out of his players


Marrone and BB are nothing alike.
There is absolutely no point in comparing them.

Did they make the playoffs? No, and they had the thinnest cupcake schedule in the league that year. 

Belichick received time to grow in NE, time bought to him by Brady. If a coach is truly defined by his talent only and can overcome a deficient roster, then why didn’t Belichick have an overall winning record before Brady? If you look at any consistently winning coach, not just him, you’ll always find a good QB behind him. Yes, good coaches can overcome or gloss over inadequate QBs and utilize other talent they have to have a winning season here or there. 2008 patriots, 2017 jags, 2008 dolphins, Jets with mark sanchez, etc but sooner or later if you don’t have The Man the bill will come due. You can only play around your QB for so long, we know that all too well in Jax

That’s not to say Marrone should stay; I’m just saying if the jags surprise us this year and win say, 8 games a case can be made for him to stay. Can be. Not necessarily should be

---

Wow...

Belichick had a winning season with Matt freaking Cassel
BB is one of the best ever in bringing out the best out of his players


Marrone and BB are nothing alike.
There is absolutely no point in comparing them.

Did they make the playoffs? No, and they had the thinnest cupcake schedule in the league that year. 

Belichick received time to grow in NE, time bought to him by Brady. If a coach is truly defined by his talent only and can overcome a deficient roster, then why didn’t Belichick have a winning record before Brady? If you look at any consistently winning coach, not just him, you’ll always find a good QB behind him. 

That’s not to say Marrone should stay; I’m just saying if the jags surprise us this year and win say, 8 games a case can be made for him to stay. Can be. Not necessarily should be

BB have always have been obsessed with being a winner and one of the best HC ever, do you really think Doug is the same?
are BB teams similar at all to Marrones teams? no? what differences do you see?

So was Cam done or not? because Patriots look good
You really think all the Patriots success was more thanks to Brady than to BB?

Can't believe someone actually needs to be explained all this...

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Did they make the playoffs? No, and they had the thinnest cupcake schedule in the league that year. 

Belichick received time to grow in NE, time bought to him by Brady. If a coach is truly defined by his talent only and can overcome a deficient roster, then why didn’t Belichick have a winning record before Brady? If you look at any consistently winning coach, not just him, you’ll always find a good QB behind him. 

That’s not to say Marrone should stay; I’m just saying if the jags surprise us this year and win say, 8 games a case can be made for him to stay. Can be. Not necessarily should be

BB have always have been obsessed with being a winner and one of the best HC ever, do you really think Doug is the same?
are BB teams similar at all to Marrones teams? no? what differences do you see?

So was Cam done or not? because Patriots look good
You really think all the Patriots success was more thanks to Brady than to BB?

Can't believe someone actually needs to be explained all this...

It’s still early in the season and the Pats are 1-1. Far too early to say they will end up a playoff team; hello 2018 Jags starting 3-1 including a blowout of the Pats. I’m not sure what to evaluate of newton, but they seem to run him a lot which isn’t sustainable. 

I didn’t say all success was due to Brady only, but until Brady, BB had a losing record and would have likely been fired (again) if the pats didn’t make the playoffs that year. 

It’s not just BB. 95 percent of Hall of game/borderline good coaches have always had a good or great QB under center. Belichick = Brady, Noll = Bradshaw, Walsh = Montana, Johnson = Aikman, Carroll = Wilson, Andy Reid = McNabb, Smith, Mahomes, list goes on. I’m not saying they bad coaches, but You’ll also notice a common theme with all those coaches; they had middling or poor results until the right guy was plugged under center. There of course will be the notable exceptions, like the 2000 ravens for example; but noticed what happened to Brian Billick’s results in the long run. 

So, if Minshew is the guy, and we win some games this year, the question is do we keep continuity with Marrone? What if we fire him and the new guy doesn’t want Gruden? I think Marrone should have been let go last year, but it is what it is

---

Here is a fun stat for you:

Jags winning percentage under Gene Smith:  .344

Jags winning percentage under David Caldwell:  .321

Let that one sink in.

Gene Smith inherited David Garrard and Maurice Jones-Drew.
David Caldwell inherited Blaine Gabbert/Chad Henne and Maurice-Jones Drew on his last legs.

When Gene Smith came in, we were only 2 years off a playoff run.
When Dave Caldwell came in, that 2 years off a playoff run was still the last time we had made the playoffs.

Not that I think Dave has done an amazing job, but those numbers should be put in context.

---

This is some serious Stockholm Syndrome stuff. Dave kept us in the pitch black dungeon with shackles on and daily beatings for so long that just a glimmer of light has us falling in love.

---

This is some serious Stockholm Syndrome stuff. Dave kept us in the pitch black dungeon with shackles on and daily beatings for so long that just a glimmer of light has us falling in love.

Lol, absurd.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I think it's funny that people think we deserve a top 3 GM.

Let's face it, if they fire Caldwell there's a 70% chance (or worse) that we will get someone worse.

---

Why does this thread keep getting reborn? Caldwell has never been as bad as some on here think. But lucking into some Minshew Magic doesn't erase all the bad either. He's had some very good draft picks, some bone headed decisions along the way as well. Early on as GM he missed more than hit and imo improved in his drafting as he went along. Unfortunately there are a few seasons where he had a "babysitter" in Coughlin and us fans can't seem to agree on what is to blame where and who gets credit for what. (IMO Coughlin deserves all the blame as he had the final say over all football decisions, so every misdealing, contract extension, unhappy player, and bad draft pick is all on him even if it also falls on Caldwell)
That all being said for an 8 year career I think it's fair to say Caldwell has been just "alright". Which is usually enough to be shown the door in most organizations.

However, given the situation we currently find ourselves in... I almost see it as his 2nd chance with a clean slate. Moving beyond the Coughlin era he has full control, no one left to blame for any decision. This roster is fully on him now. He's purged it of heavy cap contracts and "bad eggs". If we're slightly successful this year (7-8 wins) it would be fair to say he did a good job, this year. And has earned another year. He's basically on a year to year "lease" imo and has to earn the trust of the fanbase to be comfortably the "GM of the future".

Of course... some fans can't let go of Bortles and Bradley. They still cling to Joker (even though he was pretty unanimously the top T to take at that spot). They want to put the blame of Ramsey, Yan, and ARob on him even though someone was here watching over his shoulder giving the thumbs up or down. Some fans will always want to fire someone. And Caldwell is an easy target.
Winning percentages and record, playoffs, culture, a lot of that is a team thing from player personalities to coaches. The GM can only really control the talent on the roster. Most would agree that Bradley's later years actually had a somewhat talented roster that under achieved. No one was complaining about the roster in 2017 (except for the QB position perhaps). And 3 years later after 2 abysmal years, we look to have a competent QB and fun offense and a really young D with a few building blocks.

Like it or not, Caldwell rebuilt this team after Gene Smith made is one of the worst rosters ever. And he's rebuilding it again after Coughlin (and himself) put the team in a bind with big contracts on defense and a couple really bad contracts on offense (Bortles AND Foles).

And we won 6 games last year and we're not even gonna be close to the #1 overall pick as many had thought this year.
Doubt him if you want, Hell, he's certainly earned some doubt from fans. But hold off on the hyperbole of worst GM ever. He certainly hasn't been that.

---

Why does this thread keep getting reborn? Caldwell has never been as bad as some on here think. But lucking into some Minshew Magic doesn't erase all the bad either. He's had some very good draft picks, some bone headed decisions along the way as well. Early on as GM he missed more than hit and imo improved in his drafting as he went along. Unfortunately there are a few seasons where he had a "babysitter" in Coughlin and us fans can't seem to agree on what is to blame where and who gets credit for what. (IMO Coughlin deserves all the blame as he had the final say over all football decisions, so every misdealing, contract extension, unhappy player, and bad draft pick is all on him even if it also falls on Caldwell)
That all being said for an 8 year career I think it's fair to say Caldwell has been just "alright". Which is usually enough to be shown the door in most organizations.

However, given the situation we currently find ourselves in... I almost see it as his 2nd chance with a clean slate. Moving beyond the Coughlin era he has full control, no one left to blame for any decision. This roster is fully on him now. He's purged it of heavy cap contracts and "bad eggs". If we're slightly successful this year (7-8 wins) it would be fair to say he did a good job, this year. And has earned another year. He's basically on a year to year "lease" imo and has to earn the trust of the fanbase to be comfortably the "GM of the future".

Of course... some fans can't let go of Bortles and Bradley. They still cling to Joker (even though he was pretty unanimously the top T to take at that spot). They want to put the blame of Ramsey, Yan, and ARob on him even though someone was here watching over his shoulder giving the thumbs up or down. Some fans will always want to fire someone. And Caldwell is an easy target.
Winning percentages and record, playoffs, culture, a lot of that is a team thing from player personalities to coaches. The GM can only really control the talent on the roster. Most would agree that Bradley's later years actually had a somewhat talented roster that under achieved. No one was complaining about the roster in 2017 (except for the QB position perhaps). And 3 years later after 2 abysmal years, we look to have a competent QB and fun offense and a really young D with a few building blocks.

Like it or not, Caldwell rebuilt this team after Gene Smith made is one of the worst rosters ever. And he's rebuilding it again after Coughlin (and himself) put the team in a bind with big contracts on defense and a couple really bad contracts on offense (Bortles AND Foles).

And we won 6 games last year and we're not even gonna be close to the #1 overall pick as many had thought this year.
Doubt him if you want, Hell, he's certainly earned some doubt from fans. But hold off on the hyperbole of worst GM ever. He certainly hasn't been that.

The same people that want him fired are the same people that think Shad Khan has no idea what he's doing.

.....

Yeeeea... doesn't make much sense. If you think Shad doesn't know what he's doing then you can pretty much guarantee he's going to find someone worse to be a GM.

---

Why does this thread keep getting reborn? Caldwell has never been as bad as some on here think. But lucking into some Minshew Magic doesn't erase all the bad either. He's had some very good draft picks, some bone headed decisions along the way as well. Early on as GM he missed more than hit and imo improved in his drafting as he went along. Unfortunately there are a few seasons where he had a "babysitter" in Coughlin and us fans can't seem to agree on what is to blame where and who gets credit for what. (IMO Coughlin deserves all the blame as he had the final say over all football decisions, so every misdealing, contract extension, unhappy player, and bad draft pick is all on him even if it also falls on Caldwell)
That all being said for an 8 year career I think it's fair to say Caldwell has been just "alright". Which is usually enough to be shown the door in most organizations.

However, given the situation we currently find ourselves in... I almost see it as his 2nd chance with a clean slate. Moving beyond the Coughlin era he has full control, no one left to blame for any decision. This roster is fully on him now. He's purged it of heavy cap contracts and "bad eggs". If we're slightly successful this year (7-8 wins) it would be fair to say he did a good job, this year. And has earned another year. He's basically on a year to year "lease" imo and has to earn the trust of the fanbase to be comfortably the "GM of the future".

Of course... some fans can't let go of Bortles and Bradley. They still cling to Joker (even though he was pretty unanimously the top T to take at that spot). They want to put the blame of Ramsey, Yan, and ARob on him even though someone was here watching over his shoulder giving the thumbs up or down. Some fans will always want to fire someone. And Caldwell is an easy target.
Winning percentages and record, playoffs, culture, a lot of that is a team thing from player personalities to coaches. The GM can only really control the talent on the roster. Most would agree that Bradley's later years actually had a somewhat talented roster that under achieved. No one was complaining about the roster in 2017 (except for the QB position perhaps). And 3 years later after 2 abysmal years, we look to have a competent QB and fun offense and a really young D with a few building blocks.

Like it or not, Caldwell rebuilt this team after Gene Smith made is one of the worst rosters ever. And he's rebuilding it again after Coughlin (and himself) put the team in a bind with big contracts on defense and a couple really bad contracts on offense (Bortles AND Foles).

And we won 6 games last year and we're not even gonna be close to the #1 overall pick as many had thought this year.
Doubt him if you want, Hell, he's certainly earned some doubt from fans. But hold off on the hyperbole of worst GM ever. He certainly hasn't been that.

Bravo. Couldn't have said it better myself.

---

The same people that want him fired are the same people that think Shad Khan has no idea what he's doing.

.....

Yeeeea... doesn't make much sense. If you think Shad doesn't know what he's doing then you can pretty much guarantee he's going to find someone worse to be a GM.

It'll be Tony Khan.

---

Here is a fun stat for you:

Jags winning percentage under Gene Smith:  .344

Jags winning percentage under David Caldwell:  .321

Let that one sink in.

Zing!  Ouch!  The franchise has been in a sad state for the 2010-2020 decade.  I hope the next one is the opposite.

For the people defending Caldwell, I will sum it all up in one post. Caldwell was not good enough so Shad hired Coughlin to be his daddy. Up until this point, Caldwell has been a bad GM going by his record. Star players do not want to stay here. Caldwell has lead a losing culture for the most part of a decade.

If Caldwell turns it around and builds a better team he will get the recognition. We are 1-1 so lets not throw a Superbowl Party yet. It is To be determined how this season turns out but do like the look of this offense. . This defense is a complete mess.

---

These past 2 years DC has killed the draft. I think we have had the best draft in the league in back to back years

---

I really feel Dave learned a ton from Tom, what to do and what not to do.

---

Anyone with a brain knows Caldwell is the man in the drafting process. If only he could hit a homerun with a coach. I think Gruden could be that guy

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

I think it's funny that people think we deserve a top 3 GM.

Let's face it, if they fire Caldwell there's a 70% chance (or worse) that we will get someone worse.

Worse than 36-76 in 8 years?  Statistically speaking, there would only be about a 2% chance of finding someone with a worse record than that over 8 years.

If we do not improve on last year's 6-10 record, he has gotta go.

---

Anyone with a brain knows Caldwell is the man in the drafting process. If only he could hit a homerun with a coach. I think Gruden could be that guy

How are you "the man" with a 36-76 career record as GM?

I just don't understand some people... 

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.

I think it's funny that people think we deserve a top 3 GM.

Let's face it, if they fire Caldwell there's a 70% chance (or worse) that we will get someone worse.

Worse than 36-76 in 8 years?  Statistically speaking, there would only be about a 2% chance of finding someone with a worse record than that over 8 years.

If we do not improve on last year's 6-10 record, he has gotta go.

That's such a copout. There was literally nobody on the roster when Caldwell took over. He's done pretty well if not spectacular in the drafting aspect. If you want to criticize his player retention, that's one thing but the record of the team is reflective on the coaching,  plain and simple

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Worse than 36-76 in 8 years?  Statistically speaking, there would only be about a 2% chance of finding someone with a worse record than that over 8 years.

If we do not improve on last year's 6-10 record, he has gotta go.

That's such a copout. There was literally nobody on the roster when Caldwell took over. He's done pretty well if not spectacular in the drafting aspect. If you want to criticize his player retention, that's one thing but the record of the team is reflective on the coaching,  plain and simple

Thanks for your input Mrs. Caldwell.  But you better get your realtor on speed dial this January if we are not better than 6-10.

The GM is not responsible for the record of the team?  THAT is a copout.  And saying that the record of the team is only based on coaching is also not just a copout, but completely simple-minded.  It is BOTH talent and coaching.  And the GM is responsible for the coaching too... ever consider that???  Copout.  So ridiculous.

How long are you going to blame Gene Smith?  Its YEAR 8 of the Caldwell era.  If we have a losing season again this year, that is 3 in a row.  After 8 seasons at the helm and all of his own players, THREE LOSING SEASONS IN A ROW! Under Caldwell's leadership in the last 8 seasons, in what is considered the weakest Division in the NFL over that time, our 2nd best record is 6-10. Most coherent owners would have made a change after last season.  If you're not married to Caldwell, you are definitely related to him somehow.  That is the only reason I can fathom for your ridiculous apologies of his results (or lack thereof I should say).

---

This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.