I don't really have a perfect first 5 picks in terms of players selected.

I like a lot of players that will be there especially during our first 4 picks and considering our FA wasn't as I was hoping and we are still left with lots of needs I think it should be pretty easy to make selections that both meet talent and need.

The 2 things I don't want to happen with our first 5 picks are these: us taking a RB and us drafting a TE before our 5th pick (we can trade up with that in case). Tight end is a huge need and we missed badly on FA but it is what is is. Aside from Pitts I don't think the other TEs in the draft will be the better available player at pick 45. And they also won't be at a premium position like others might be. I would look to trade up for Brevin Jordan eventually.
It they think Brevin Jordan won't last long after pick 45 then take him there but trade up for a good player/position group who is sliding (for exemple if there's a run at OLs) almost right after.

There are also lots of WRs I like in this draft but I would be hesitant to draft one before pick 45 as well. We have a good WR room and we have holes/depth/perspective depth issues elsewhere. I wouldn't be mad if we drafted one of the Moore guys but with all the other needs I would prefer we take another route.

So to sum it up I think I'd be pretty much happy with anything that we will realistically do...unless they go with a RB/Freiermuth combo in the first 45 picks. (I also have a feeling Meyer will go after a speed/homerun threat at RB, I just hope he won't do it early).That would be seem bad value to me.

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I've always believed the best way to turn around a team fast is to turn your weaknesses into strengths.  That means assuming equal value, you take the biggest need.  In the draft, you don't select "offense" or "defense", you draft a specific position.  If the position of biggest need is defense, you don't pass on it to take a lesser need on offense.  In our case, I see our biggest need positions as:

Quarterback
Offensive Tackle
Tight End
Free Safety
Edge

I don't agree with those that put wide receiver super high on the list.  We signed a good receiver in Marvin Jones.  D.J. Chark is one year removed from a pro-bowl.  Shenault was a very promising rookie last year and even rookie Collin Johnson showed potential.  I think the rookies will improve with experience and all returning players will look much better with improved quarterback play.  I know it's a good draft for receivers, so if it's a value thing, that's fine, but I don't have it in our top 5 needs.

I also hope that running back isn't one of those "weapons" that are drafted with any of our first five picks.  We already have a good one in James Robinson.  He played at a near pro-bowl level last year as a rookie.  I want a complimentary speedy running back, but that can be found in the fourth round or later.

There is a school of thought that you can build on strength to improve your team.  The 1984 Giants already had a great set of LBs in a 3-4 with Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson.  But with their top 5 draft pick, they added LB Carl Banks.  Now the Minnesota Vikings were already a playoff team (though not a dominant one) with good WRs when they added WR Randy Moss in 1998.

That said, I generally agree with your overall philosophy here, again assuming equal grades for all of the players involved.

I will say that Meyer has repeatedly expressed a desire to add more speed at WR and maybe RB, so it would not be a shock to see the team add at least one of each in the draft.  In fact, lately I'm getting the sneaky suspicion Travis Etienne is on the radar at 25-33.

I'm sure there are cases where a team building on strength worked out well for them, but I also suspect it was mostly cases where they got excellent value.  If there's a sure-fire future hall of famer at #25, I take him regardless of position (except maybe special teams).  If there's roughly equal value, I go with need.  If there's a significant difference in value and it's not a need, I also look to trade that pick.

In regards to drafting WR and maybe RB early, I agree with you.  I wouldn't take that approach, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Jaguars did.  Meyer has expressed a desire for more speed.  I also know O-zone is a tool, but he has good access to the Jaguars and sometimes has inside information.  He's clearly trying to prepare readers in advance for the possibility of the Jaguars drafting a running back early which he knows will be unpopular with some fans. My guess is he knows that Meyer is taking a strong look at the top rated running backs in the upcoming draft.

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I don't really have a perfect first 5 picks in terms of players selected.

I like a lot of players that will be there especially during our first 4 picks and considering our FA wasn't as I was hoping and we are still left with lots of needs I think it should be pretty easy to make selections that both meet talent and need.

The 2 things I don't want to happen with our first 5 picks are these: us taking a RB and us drafting a TE before our 5th pick (we can trade up with that in case). Tight end is a huge need and we missed badly on FA but it is what is is. Aside from Pitts I don't think the other TEs in the draft will be the better available player at pick 45. And they also won't be at a premium position like others might be. I would look to trade up for Brevin Jordan eventually.
It they think Brevin Jordan won't last long after pick 45 then take him there but trade up for a good player/position group who is sliding (for exemple if there's a run at OLs) almost right after.

There are also lots of WRs I like in this draft but I would be hesitant to draft one before pick 45 as well. We have a good WR room and we have holes/depth/perspective depth issues  elsewhere. I wouldn't be mad if we drafted one of the Moore guys but with all the other needs I would prefer we take another route.

So to sum it up I think I'd be pretty much happy with anything that we will realistically do...unless they go with a RB/Freiermuth combo in the first 45 picks. (I also have a feeling Meyer will go after a speed/homerun threat at RB, I just hope he won't do it early).That would be seem bad value to me.

Even though Baalke has somewhat emphatically stated they would go BAP irrespective of need, I can see a scenario where the things you DON'T want to happen will be exactly what happens with RB and TE.  Regarding WR, as a general rule, I prefer teams take skill players early and stock up on OL in the mid rounds.  But I'm not sure I want a WR early in this draft.  Based on what I have seen, I can't say I'm a huge Bateman fan.  Diminutive slot WRs like Rondale or Elijah Moore are typically found 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th round.  It seems like this year's draft seems to play exactly like what I've described above.

But I can't shake the feeling that OL, specifically T should be at least one of our first five picks.  From a value perspective, T fits.  From a need perspective, T fits.  We have enough at WR to push it down the list of priorities.  Yes we could add more speed, but as I said, we could find speed at WR a little later.  A guy like Dyami Brown could go late 2nd-3rd round, while guys like Tutu Atwell and Schwartz could go as late as the 4th round.

As for Friermuth, I'd be fine with him within our top 5 picks, ideally at 33 or 45 at the latest.  I believe he fits well there.

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There is a school of thought that you can build on strength to improve your team.  The 1984 Giants already had a great set of LBs in a 3-4 with Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson.  But with their top 5 draft pick, they added LB Carl Banks.  Now the Minnesota Vikings were already a playoff team (though not a dominant one) with good WRs when they added WR Randy Moss in 1998.

That said, I generally agree with your overall philosophy here, again assuming equal grades for all of the players involved.

I will say that Meyer has repeatedly expressed a desire to add more speed at WR and maybe RB, so it would not be a shock to see the team add at least one of each in the draft.  In fact, lately I'm getting the sneaky suspicion Travis Etienne is on the radar at 25-33.

I'm sure there are cases where a team building on strength worked out well for them, but I also suspect it was mostly cases where they got excellent value.  If there's a sure-fire future hall of famer at #25, I take him regardless of position (except maybe special teams).  If there's roughly equal value, I go with need.  If there's a significant difference in value and it's not a need, I also look to trade that pick.

In regards to drafting WR and maybe RB early, I agree with you.  I wouldn't take that approach, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Jaguars did.  Meyer has expressed a desire for more speed.  I also know O-zone is a tool, but he has good access to the Jaguars and sometimes has inside information.  He's clearly trying to prepare readers in advance for the possibility of the Jaguars drafting a running back early which he knows will be unpopular with some fans.  My guess is he knows that Meyer is taking a strong look at the top rated running backs in the upcoming draft.

Regarding the building on a strength, there's not much we have on the roster that really represents a strength.  I suppose WR could be considered that area, and to the extent adding a WR would help give the team matchup advantages and help with TLaw's development, I'd be for adding a WR early if I thought there was an exceptional value at 25 or 33.  But I'm not crazy about Bateman or Toney.  I don't hate either guy, but I don't think they would necessarily represent tremendous value there.  Justin Jefferson was good value at 20 last year.  I don't see either Bateman or Toney being as good as Jefferson.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Trevor Lawrence, Travis ettinene, Jeremiah osusu Koramoah, Trevon Moehrig, Pat freirumuth.

We may need to trade up for Trevon with our second 2nd rd pick. That would be a perfect 5 that is very attainable. Gotta hope JOk drops out of the 1st. I’ve seen it in a mock and was wishfully thinking scenario.

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Trevor Lawrence, Travis ettinene, Jeremiah osusu Koramoah, Trevon Moehrig, Pat freirumuth.

We may need to trade up for Trevon with our second 2nd rd pick. That would be a perfect 5 that is very attainable. Gotta hope JOk drops out of the 1st. I’ve seen it in a mock and was wishfully thinking scenario.

I like your picks for the most part.

The one major problem I have is the JOK pick.

Were we still running a 4-3, I'd be more receptive of him because he would be a scheme fit (though 4-3 LBs can typically be found later).  But in a 3-4, I see no good fit for him in our defense, unless you project him to safety.  There have been a couple of notable LB-S transitions in the NFL that I can recall-Carnell Lake and Darren Woodson-both of whom were taken in the 2nd round. 

Absent a compelling argument he could successfully make that switch, I don't think JOK would be a good fit with us.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If JOK isn't a good fit for your defense you are running the wrong defense or employing it far too uncreatively.

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That’s sort of what I was thinking. I see both sides to it. He’s a game changer and you coach to your players strengths. Either way I just want the Jags to get a stud Lb in this draft. Like another Kevin hardy!

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If JOK isn't a good fit for your defense you are running the wrong defense.

Where does he fit in a 3-4?

He doesn't have the length to be a pass rushing OLB, nor does he have the bulk to hold up at the point of attack against a T...or a TE for that matter..

At 215, do you seriously think if you moved him inside, he could take on guards over the course of a game..or over the course of a season?

We appear to be switching to a scheme similar to the Ravens' 3-4 since we have brought over two or three of their assistant coaches.  Assuming this is true, it would seem helpful to know what kind of players they had running their defense.  Last year, the smallest starting LB they had was 229 lb Patrick Queen.  The other starters were 232, 265 and 261 lbs.  Other linebackers on the roster were 229, 242, 247 and 275 lbs.  In fact, going back three seasons, the smallest LB on their roster was 227 lbs-twelve pounds heavier than JOK.


I don't deny he's a good player.

Before he had his meltdown or whatever, Telvin Smith was about the same size as JOK and he was a heckuva player and one of my favorites as a Jaguar.

In a 4-3.

If Smith were still on the roster and we were switching to a 3-4, my first statement about him would be he doesn't fit the scheme.

Now I could buy the argument we shouldn't switch to a 3-4.  Heck I have made the argument numerous times over the years.

But given that the overwhelming evidence points to switching to a 3-4, we have to get players to fit the scheme.


I don't believe JOK fits the scheme, unless you plan to move him to S.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

That’s sort of what I was thinking. I see both sides to it. He’s a game changer and you coach to your players strengths. Either way I just want the Jags to get a stud Lb in this draft. Like another Kevin hardy!

That is totally understandable.

If you are running a 3-4, you want four stud LBs who can make a game changing play at any minute.  You want them physical, hard hitting, etc.

Furthermore, you are right in identifying Kevin Hardy as the sort of LB you would want at OLB in a 3-4.

But Kevin Hardy was 6-4, 259.

JOK is 6-2, 216.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If JOK isn't a good fit for your defense you are running the wrong defense.

Where does he fit in a 3-4?

As I've said a few times, he is this new fad joker/star/dimeback/3rd S position that more and more teams are using to great effect. He'll play SS, LB, and nickel corner.

We've done this before lol. You responded that you thought Simmons didn't work out, and I responded that it was way too early to say that and that Simmons ended his rookie year playing well. I think JOK is Simmons that plays with his hair on fire. Simmons is similarly a swiss army knife, but his biggest problem is that he plays passive/soft. JOK will light you the eff up.

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Where does he fit in a 3-4?

As I've said a few times, he is this new fad joker/star/dimeback/3rd S position that more and more teams are using to great effect. He'll play SS, LB, and nickel corner.

We've done this before lol. You responded that you thought Simmons didn't work out, and I responded that it was way too early to say that and that Simmons ended his rookie year playing well. I think JOK is Simmons that plays with his hair on fire. Simmons is similarly a swiss army knife, but his biggest problem is that he plays passive/soft. JOK will light you the eff up.

Like I said...i can be on board with JOK if we were running a 4-3, or if you moved him to safety.

But I'm not sold these hybrid, jack of all trade types work.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

You may not be ready for them, but they are ready for you.

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You may not be ready for them, but they are ready for you.

You may be right about that.

But I haven't seen much evidence of that in the NFL thus far.  Granted there are teams I follow far less closely than the Jaguars, and they may be utilizing players in ways I don't know.

I think if you give a guy too many assignments...too much responsibility, they spend a lot of time thinking about what to do instead of just playing.  They never really master any one skill.  I think that makes players far less effective.  Simmons has the athletic ability to be an excellent player, but at least for his rookie year, if they have given him the Jack of all trades responsibilities, it has stunted his development, IMO.

The closest I could come to seeing JOK fit with us in the way you describe is like an in the box safety like LeRoy Butler was with Green Bay.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Even though Baalke has somewhat emphatically stated they would go BAP irrespective of need, I can see a scenario where the things you DON'T want to happen will be exactly what happens with RB and TE.  Regarding WR, as a general rule, I prefer teams take skill players early and stock up on OL in the mid rounds.  But I'm not sure I want a WR early in this draft.  Based on what I have seen, I can't say I'm a huge Bateman fan.  Diminutive slot WRs like Rondale or Elijah Moore are typically found 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th round.  It seems like this year's draft seems to play exactly like what I've described above.

But I can't shake the feeling that OL, specifically T should be at least one of our first five picks.  From a value perspective, T fits.  From a need perspective, T fits.  We have enough at WR to push it down the list of priorities.  Yes we could add more speed, but as I said, we could find speed at WR a little later.  A guy like Dyami Brown could go late 2nd-3rd round, while guys like Tutu Atwell and Schwartz could go as late as the 4th round.

As for Friermuth, I'd be fine with him within our top 5 picks, ideally at 33 or 45 at the latest.  I believe he fits well there.

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Yes, I know there's a possibility it will shake out exactly like I don't want it to (Especially after FA) but it is what it is.

I agree about the need of addressing OL/OT with the first 5 picks, in a class this good I'd try do it early anyway as there are really good players I like.
We have lots of holes, now and in the coming future and I simply don't want to see us drafting another RB (I wouldn't have even brought Hyde in) early with all the good players at premium positions that will be available. Same goes for TE, nothing against Freiermut and we have a huge need at the postion but he isn't close to being one of my best available players in the top 45, let alone at 33. But yes I can totally see him being the pick there.

I see it the same way as you about the WRs.

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Even though Baalke has somewhat emphatically stated they would go BAP irrespective of need, I can see a scenario where the things you DON'T want to happen will be exactly what happens with RB and TE.  Regarding WR, as a general rule, I prefer teams take skill players early and stock up on OL in the mid rounds.  But I'm not sure I want a WR early in this draft.  Based on what I have seen, I can't say I'm a huge Bateman fan.  Diminutive slot WRs like Rondale or Elijah Moore are typically found 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th round.  It seems like this year's draft seems to play exactly like what I've described above.

But I can't shake the feeling that OL, specifically T should be at least one of our first five picks.  From a value perspective, T fits.  From a need perspective, T fits.  We have enough at WR to push it down the list of priorities.  Yes we could add more speed, but as I said, we could find speed at WR a little later.  A guy like Dyami Brown could go late 2nd-3rd round, while guys like Tutu Atwell and Schwartz could go as late as the 4th round.

As for Friermuth, I'd be fine with him within our top 5 picks, ideally at 33 or 45 at the latest.  I believe he fits well there.

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Yes, I know there's a possibility it will shake out exactly like I don't want it to (Especially after FA) but it is what it is.

I agree about the need of addressing OL/OT with the first 5 picks, in a class this good I'd try do it early anyway as there are really good players I like.
We have lots of holes, now and in the coming future and I simply don't want to see us drafting another RB (I wouldn't have even brought Hyde in) early with all the good players at premium positions that will be available. Same goes for TE, nothing against Freiermut and we have a huge need at the postion but he isn't close to being one of my best available players in the top 45, let alone at 33. But yes I can totally see him being the pick there.

I see it the same way as you about the WRs.

I wouldn't have brought in Hyde, either, but I would have addressed RB this off season in some form or fashion. 

If the goal is to give TL a strong supporting cast, RB is crucial to achieving that goal.  If Robinson were to be injured, lacking quality depth behind him would place TL in greater risk, as a higher burden of the offense would be thrust upon him, meaning defenses would tee off on him even more.  Balance must be maintained  even through injury if that result (defenses teeing off on TL) is to be avoided or at least mitigated.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

As I've said a few times, he is this new fad joker/star/dimeback/3rd S position that more and more teams are using to great effect. He'll play SS, LB, and nickel corner.

We've done this before lol. You responded that you thought Simmons didn't work out, and I responded that it was way too early to say that and that Simmons ended his rookie year playing well. I think JOK is Simmons that plays with his hair on fire. Simmons is similarly a swiss army knife, but his biggest problem is that he plays passive/soft. JOK will light you the eff up.

Like I said...i can be on board with JOK if we were running a 4-3, or if you moved him to safety.

But I'm not sold these hybrid, jack of all trade types work.

Agreed 100%.

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Like I said...i can be on board with JOK if we were running a 4-3, or if you moved him to safety.

But I'm not sold these hybrid, jack of all trade types work.

Agreed 100%.

I agree as well, we don't need to draft someone that early without a position.

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It is a position and one that the NFL has told us is becoming more and more important by the year...y'all need to get out of the box.

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Like I said...i can be on board with JOK if we were running a 4-3, or if you moved him to safety.

But I'm not sold these hybrid, jack of all trade types work.

Agreed 100%.

How many of those types of players have actually been that successful?

Buccanon and Barron.... not sure they are great "success stories"
Did Jabrill Peppers ever become anything?
Then the kid from Clemson Simmons who was less than special on the Cards last year after being taken top ten... that EVERYONE wanted. Pretty sure he rode pine most of the year.

Ya know who else was a "safety linebacker hybrid" Josh Jones, 2017 draft of Packers.... (isn't that the guy everyone said is trash that we re-signed? lulz)

Give me the dudes that do one thing great.

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Agreed 100%.

How many of those types of players have actually been that successful?

Buccanon and Barron.... not sure they are great "success stories"
Did Jabrill Peppers ever become anything?
Then the kid from Clemson Simmons who was less than special on the Cards last year after being taken top ten... that EVERYONE wanted. Pretty sure he rode pine most of the year.

Ya know who else was a "safety linebacker hybrid" Josh Jones, 2017 draft of Packers.... (isn't that the guy everyone said is trash that we re-signed? lulz)

Give me the dudes that do one thing great.

Exactly.

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