Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

So if Trump were still president, you would have gotten the vaccine?

I think the inverse of this is far more likely. Obviously, it's a hypothetical, so who really knows, but I can all but assure you (based on the talking points before the election), that democrats would not be supporting or taking the vaccine had Trump got reelected. I'm not so sure if this holds for Republicans. The whole response to this pandemic has been political, and it's the major driver behind the mistrust in our institutions.

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1. Yes, it's plausible though unlikely. I've not said otherwise. Will you accept that as well?
2. It was minimum 40%. Another study I read somewhere yesterday said 65% with viral shedding and complete resolution multiple days shorter. Both of which contribute to reducing the amount of virus in the environment.
3. Yes, it's still spreading as has been repeatedly stated it would until we reach the herd immunity %. And who is being overwhelmingly the most impacted by this? The unvaccinated.
4. My mother lost a good friend today to the Delta. His wife who also has it was moved into hospice this evening and probably won't last another 24 hours. I'd say it would've been worth it. But at least tt was finally enough to convince her to go to Publix and get inoculated.

1. Why do you think it's unlikely? It's an unknown. We don't know what the results will be. I can point to plenty of vaccines/medicines that ended up having problems down the road, and I'm sure their producers meant well enough by it.
2. This is a bad time to be defending this position: ‘The war has changed’: Internal CDC document urges new messaging, warns delta infections likely more severe - The Washington Post
3. Don't disagree. However, people should be able to choose how they want to play their part in herd immunity. Looking at the data, I still prefer to roll the dice with the virus. 
4. Sorry to hear that. Still, considering what I've already mentioned, people are not dying at a high rate from this. People have a greater chance of dying from heart disease. That doesn't stop others from eating cheeseburgers.

Wish we could trust the Bezos owned Washington Post, but we can't. They are the fakest of fake news.

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So if Trump were still president, you would have gotten the vaccine?

I think the inverse of this is far more likely. Obviously, it's a hypothetical, so who really knows, but I can all but assure you (based on the talking points before the election), that democrats would not be supporting or taking the vaccine had Trump got reelected. I'm not so sure if this holds for Republicans. The whole response to this pandemic has been political, and it's the major driver behind the mistrust in our institutions.

I thought the same thing at one point, but when you understand how weak and submissive democrats are, I feel like they would have easily submitted to anything Fauchi told them to do, even if he were still working for Trump.

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Just picked the most mainstream paper. This was confirmed by the director of the CDC.

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And, either they are correct, and I am right about what I've been saying (based on what should be obvious to anyone) or the CDC is incompetent and uses bad science, which should make you wonder about what else they are getting wrong.

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Just picked the most mainstream paper. This was confirmed by the director of the CDC.

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And, either they are correct, and I am right about what I've been saying (based on what should be obvious to anyone) or the CDC is incompetent and uses bad science, which should make you wonder about what else they are getting wrong.

I believe they are incompetent and would stoop so low as to put any scare tactic they can out there to get people vaccinated.

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I'll throw in that my parents, both die hard Trumpers, said well before the election that they would not take the vaccine, and that is the sentiment throughout both of their circles. Of course two of them their friends have passed away from Delta in the last 24 hours, so that's probably going to be a commonality in the next few weeks.

Edited for clarity, my parents are ok. Thanks for the concern you all expressed and I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

1. Yes, it's plausible though unlikely. I've not said otherwise. Will you accept that as well?
2. It was minimum 40%. Another study I read somewhere yesterday said 65% with viral shedding and complete resolution multiple days shorter. Both of which contribute to reducing the amount of virus in the environment.
3. Yes, it's still spreading as has been repeatedly stated it would until we reach the herd immunity %. And who is being overwhelmingly the most impacted by this? The unvaccinated.
4. My mother lost a good friend today to the Delta. His wife who also has it was moved into hospice this evening and probably won't last another 24 hours. I'd say it would've been worth it. But at least tt was finally enough to convince her to go to Publix and get inoculated.

1. Why do you think it's unlikely? It's an unknown. We don't know what the results will be. I can point to plenty of vaccines/medicines that ended up having problems down the road, and I'm sure their producers meant well enough by it.
2. This is a bad time to be defending this position: ‘The war has changed’: Internal CDC document urges new messaging, warns delta infections likely more severe - The Washington Post
3. Don't disagree. However, people should be able to choose how they want to play their part in herd immunity. Looking at the data, I still prefer to roll the dice with the virus. 
4. Sorry to hear that. Still, considering what I've already mentioned, people are not dying at a high rate from this. People have a greater chance of dying from heart disease. That doesn't stop others from eating cheeseburgers.

I think it's unlikely because mRNA therapies aren't new, vaccines are just new application for them. I'm not sure about the impacts of vaccine/unvaxxed with the new strain since we don't have a ton of data on it yet, but the boots on the ground view says that the existing vaccines are keeping people out of the hospital and that's a key component as far as I'm concerned. My ongoing concern is that the longer Covid-19 stays in circulation the greater the probability of a variant strain that evades the vaccine altogether. If that happens then we're back to square one.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

1. Why do you think it's unlikely? It's an unknown. We don't know what the results will be. I can point to plenty of vaccines/medicines that ended up having problems down the road, and I'm sure their producers meant well enough by it.
2. This is a bad time to be defending this position: ‘The war has changed’: Internal CDC document urges new messaging, warns delta infections likely more severe - The Washington Post
3. Don't disagree. However, people should be able to choose how they want to play their part in herd immunity. Looking at the data, I still prefer to roll the dice with the virus. 
4. Sorry to hear that. Still, considering what I've already mentioned, people are not dying at a high rate from this. People have a greater chance of dying from heart disease. That doesn't stop others from eating cheeseburgers.

I think it's unlikely because mRNA therapies aren't new, vaccines are just new application for them. I'm not sure about the impacts of vaccine/unvaxxed with the new strain since we don't have a ton of data on it yet, but the boots on the ground view says that the existing vaccines are keeping people out of the hospital and that's a key component as far as I'm concerned. My ongoing concern is that the longer Covid-19 stays in circulation the greater the probability of a variant strain that evades the vaccine altogether. If that happens then we're back to square one.

I wonder how Sweden is doing with the Delta variant.

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I think it's unlikely because mRNA therapies aren't new, vaccines are just new application for them. I'm not sure about the impacts of vaccine/unvaxxed with the new strain since we don't have a ton of data on it yet, but the boots on the ground view says that the existing vaccines are keeping people out of the hospital and that's a key component as far as I'm concerned. My ongoing concern is that the longer Covid-19 stays in circulation the greater the probability of a variant strain that evades the vaccine altogether. If that happens then we're back to square one.

I wonder how Sweden is doing with the Delta variant.

Cases are on the rise, but they have a 75% partially vaccinated population, so that helps.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/cov...021-07-23/

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It is a small group of people, yes absolutely but my concern is why the media is not quickly drawing attention to the people who are dying who received the vaccine? Is the Delta now able to fight certain microbodies or tcells the vaccine was able to repair? It may be too soon but for me it is yet another red flag to getting the vaccine.

We knew months ago that the vaccine is between 90 and 95% effective. So of the 160,000,000 people who've gotten it, it's expected that it won't work for somewhere between 8,000,000 and 16,000,000 of them. While the individual deaths are awful, that just 800 people have died from "breakthrough" cases should be seen as a positive. I've seen it mentioned several places, but frankly it's not news.

They didn't test like a normal test though. Unless I'm wrong, they didn't give everyone covid and only a blind sample got the vaccine.

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None of the spectators at Jaguars training camp are wearing masks. We are doomed.

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We knew months ago that the vaccine is between 90 and 95% effective. So of the 160,000,000 people who've gotten it, it's expected that it won't work for somewhere between 8,000,000 and 16,000,000 of them. While the individual deaths are awful, that just 800 people have died from "breakthrough" cases should be seen as a positive. I've seen it mentioned several places, but frankly it's not news.

They didn't test like a normal test though. Unless I'm wrong, they didn't give everyone covid and only a blind sample got the vaccine.

Could you clarify? I don't follow.

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None of the spectators at Jaguars training camp are wearing masks.  We are doomed.

That's the guidance, masks indoors.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

But vaccinated people are also spreading this. I've seen this from Fauci to random doctors talking about it. I don't get why this part is hard for people to understand. So people who want to have fewer/less/no symptoms go ahead and get vaccinated but understand that you are just as much of a spreader as the unvaccinated.

That's not quite accurate, vaccinated persons have at minimum 40% less viral load than unvaccinated persons. That means they are significantly less contagious for significantly less time as validated by one of the studies I linked earlier. That's why masking for vaccinated people is recommended, because for a small period of time they are potentially contagious. Why this matters is because as fewer and fewer unvaccinated people are in the environment the opportunity for infection becomes less and less and the amount of virus in the environment becomes less and less until it's gone. But while we're sitting here with half the population at risk the virus has plenty of petri dish people to nourish it and spread it all over.

So why did Fauci Almighty say on the 28th that they are finding just as much of the virus in the vaccinated than they are the unvaccinated and the vaccinated are now spreaders? This has been said by several sources. Also has been said that vaccines are not necessarily effective against the Delta variant. If this is the case it certainly explains the sudden outbreaks in the unvaccinated and breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.

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That's not quite accurate, vaccinated persons have at minimum 40% less viral load than unvaccinated persons. That means they are significantly less contagious for significantly less time as validated by one of the studies I linked earlier. That's why masking for vaccinated people is recommended, because for a small period of time they are potentially contagious. Why this matters is because as fewer and fewer unvaccinated people are in the environment the opportunity for infection becomes less and less and the amount of virus in the environment becomes less and less until it's gone. But while we're sitting here with half the population at risk the virus has plenty of petri dish people to nourish it and spread it all over.

So why did Fauci Almighty say on the 28th that they are finding just as much of the virus in the vaccinated than they are the unvaccinated and the vaccinated are now spreaders? This has been said by several sources. Also has been said that vaccines are not necessarily effective against the Delta variant. If this is the case it certainly explains the sudden outbreaks in the unvaccinated and breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/20...k-guidance

Not that one can trust the Washington Post since they are just a part of the leftist agenda.. but still.. it seems to go against the popular talking points.

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Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

Um, this would be politicized regardless of who is in office. The left started it by saying they weren't going to drink Trumps poison then went all in when Biden was elected. Had Trump been re-elected the left would still be screaming that the vaccine is evil.

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Had the democrats not cheated and stole the election and the Trump admin was able to continue their good work, this vaccine wouldn't have been politicized like it has been, and there would be more buy in. The democrats "winning" the election and politicizing this thing from the beginning is the worst thing that could have happened for this country.

Um, this would be politicized regardless of who is in office. The left started it by saying they weren't going to drink Trumps poison then went all in when Biden was elected. Had Trump been re-elected the left would still be screaming that the vaccine is evil.

That is a stone cold fact.

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Um, this would be politicized regardless of who is in office. The left started it by saying they weren't going to drink Trumps poison then went all in when Biden was elected. Had Trump been re-elected the left would still be screaming that the vaccine is evil.

That is a stone cold fact.

It is an interesting case study for sure. Fauchi was a darling of the left during this whole thing, so I am very curious if they would have turned on him after the election had Trump won.

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I was just talking to my mom the other day about that. The vaccine was the bad guy when trump was in office. It was rushed. Now that Biden is in office, they shove it down your throat. How do people not see through this crap?

That being said, I get my second shot next Saturday. If I’m 50% “immune” now, what percentage is it immediately after my second shot ? Not that it matters.

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I'll throw in that my parents, both die hard Trumpers, said well before the election that they would not take the vaccine, and that is the sentiment throughout both of their circles. Of course two of them have passed away from Delta in the last 24 hours, so that's probably going to be a commonality in the next few weeks.

Damn bro I know we have had our battles in the past but I personally want to send my condolences and prayers to you.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Because 800 deaths out of 160 million vaccinations is within the expected range?

I can appreciate this argument, but not in the context of mandatory vaccination. If you've had Covid, there is no reason to take that extra risk. Deaths are almost certainly underreported (but I accept that it's minimal), but there are also people who have serious side-effects to a tune much larger than 800. There is no reason to risk it. Especially not for a virus that is easily survivable for most people. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough, if you want to get it, get it. But the pressure on the individual is insane. The suppression of scientific dissent is not helping.

And, again, I emphasize that we do not yet have a long-term study on this vaccine. Do you not even think it's plausible that there could be serious effects down the road? That's not even a possibility to you? You are going to need a control group if/when there is ever a problem down the road. This alone is enough of a reason not to do a global roll-out, imo, but whatever. 

And to the point of carrying 40% less viral load, I don't think that matters. According to the experts, you only need to be in close proximity of someone with the delta variant for 1 minute to contract this disease. So, great... I get an additional 24 seconds standing next to the vaccinated. Whoopity doo. There is no way this thing is spreading through Jax the way it us unless a significant amount of spread can happen through the vaccinated. We have 50% vaccinated PLUS everyone that's already had it PLUS the people who have a naturally high resistance to it. Yet, it's still spreading. Just food for thought.

Im not a scientist but I think the delta strain is able to attack certain mRna or tcells that the vaccine didnt fully shield.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

I'll throw in that my parents, both die hard Trumpers, said well before the election that they would not take the vaccine, and that is the sentiment throughout both of their circles. Of course two of them have passed away from Delta in the last 24 hours, so that's probably going to be a commonality in the next few weeks.

Both your parents just died from the delta variant? I'm hoping that you meant two people from their circles just died. If not, that sucks, and I'm sorry to hear it.

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