That's not quite accurate, vaccinated persons have at minimum 40% less viral load than unvaccinated persons. That means they are significantly less contagious for significantly less time as validated by one of the studies I linked earlier. That's why masking for vaccinated people is recommended, because for a small period of time they are potentially contagious. Why this matters is because as fewer and fewer unvaccinated people are in the environment the opportunity for infection becomes less and less and the amount of virus in the environment becomes less and less until it's gone. But while we're sitting here with half the population at risk the virus has plenty of petri dish people to nourish it and spread it all over.

So why did Fauci Almighty say on the 28th that they are finding just as much of the virus in the vaccinated than they are the unvaccinated and the vaccinated are now spreaders? This has been said by several sources. Also has been said that vaccines are not necessarily effective against the Delta variant. If this is the case it certainly explains the sudden outbreaks in the unvaccinated and breakthrough cases in the vaccinated.

I can't speak to what Fauci is addressing since we don't have publicly released peer-reviewed studies of the variants to discuss yet. Even the WP articles are critical of the CDC for not releasing the data along with the new guidance and I agree, we can't have our physicians giving advice without the scholarship to back it up. It certainly appears that this is one more reason why we need more people to get vaccinated.

What I'm describing is what I've found that's been published in the last few months and mostly pertains to Alpha, but we do have studies on the vaccine efficacy against Delta that show it's "modestly" lower than Alpha (93%) at 88%.

FTL: "Only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness were noted with the delta variant as compared with the alpha variant after the receipt of two vaccine doses. Absolute differences in vaccine effectiveness were more marked after the receipt of the first dose. This finding would support efforts to maximize vaccine uptake with two doses among vulnerable populations. (Funded by Public Health England.)"

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

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I'll throw in that my parents, both die hard Trumpers, said well before the election that they would not take the vaccine, and that is the sentiment throughout both of their circles. Of course two of them have passed away from Delta in the last 24 hours, so that's probably going to be a commonality in the next few weeks.

Damn bro I know we have had our battles in the past but I personally want to send my condolences and prayers to you.

Thanks, my mom is really upset by the sudden loss of her friends (about 3 days from symptoms to passing). A lot of folks are going to be in similar circumstances in the near future I'm afraid.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'll throw in that my parents, both die hard Trumpers, said well before the election that they would not take the vaccine, and that is the sentiment throughout both of their circles. Of course two of them have passed away from Delta in the last 24 hours, so that's probably going to be a commonality in the next few weeks.

Both your parents just died from the delta variant? I'm hoping that you meant two people from their circles just died. If not, that sucks, and I'm sorry to hear it.

Yes, I'm sorry that wasn't clear, both my parents are still here. My mom actually went and got the shot yesterday after the man passed and then his wife passed this morning.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I found the paper that the CDC is citing as the cause for the modification to the masking guidance. You can read it for yourself here:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/m...mm7031e2_w

The closing note in the Limitations is somewhat interesting since it doesn't confirm the thought that viral loads are similar in vaxxed vs unvaxxed:

Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

1. Why do you think it's unlikely? It's an unknown. We don't know what the results will be. I can point to plenty of vaccines/medicines that ended up having problems down the road, and I'm sure their producers meant well enough by it.
2. This is a bad time to be defending this position: ‘The war has changed’: Internal CDC document urges new messaging, warns delta infections likely more severe - The Washington Post
3. Don't disagree. However, people should be able to choose how they want to play their part in herd immunity. Looking at the data, I still prefer to roll the dice with the virus. 
4. Sorry to hear that. Still, considering what I've already mentioned, people are not dying at a high rate from this. People have a greater chance of dying from heart disease. That doesn't stop others from eating cheeseburgers.

I think it's unlikely because mRNA therapies aren't new, vaccines are just new application for them. I'm not sure about the impacts of vaccine/unvaxxed with the new strain since we don't have a ton of data on it yet, but the boots on the ground view says that the existing vaccines are keeping people out of the hospital and that's a key component as far as I'm concerned. My ongoing concern is that the longer Covid-19 stays in circulation the greater the probability of a variant strain that evades the vaccine altogether. If that happens then we're back to square one.

Was going to respond to this yesterday, but kept putting it off. 

What about the role ADE plays (possibly) in the severity of Covid cases. There are some scientists that think the early severity of this disease was brought on by ADE, but, personally, I'm not sure. I think it's just as likely that this was a gain-of-function virus that quickly regressed back to the mean... but that's just a layperson's theory and has no basis in evidence. However, if it was ADE, that could be a potential problem for the vaccine. We know the Sars-Cov-1 and Mers vaccines failed due to ADE in animal studies. You don't think there's any chance that producing a high antibody count could potentially trigger ADE down the road in the vaccinated? 

I really do want to see this vaccine do well, but I just don't get the global roll-out. Most of us can handle Covid just fine (knock on wood). Those of us who can't should get vaccinated. Those of us who are afraid should get vaccinated. It's just not a deadly disease by deadly disease standards. I get the complications brought on by large numbers of people at the hospital, and that is a legitimate concern, but we are doing a good job with that, too. Look, I'm not saying this is a given, I'm just pointing out possibilities that exist. The Covid vaccine seemed to do fine with the delta variant, so that's good news, but I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. 

Human beings are not infallible, and all of our response to this has been guided by an institution that has been wrong over and over and has shown itself to be politically motivated. Whether it's the WHO or the CDC, we can't seem to get any consistent information, especially as it pertains to policy. Even the study they are using to justify remasking is weak. I knew that when I posted it, but I wanted it on record to show how policy is being implemented by fear and power more than science.

EDIT: Changed Sars-Cov-2 to Sars-Cov-1. Freudian slip.

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I think it is time to abolish the CDC, IRS, and Dept of Education.

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I found the paper that the CDC is citing as the cause for the modification to the masking guidance. You can read it for yourself here:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/m...mm7031e2_w

The closing note in the Limitations is somewhat interesting since it doesn't confirm the thought that viral loads are similar in vaxxed vs unvaxxed:

Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings.

It makes actual sense that the viral load would be similar with Delta being such a strong and highly contagious variant and the current vaccines were not manufactured with such in mind. That seems logical. I know the scientific community needs to have their studies and findings before they can "officially" say a thing is what it is, but sometimes the logic is as plain as day and people need to get their heads out of their collective [BLEEP] and use their critical thinking skills. 

I'm glad the vaccines cause less stress on the body with little to no symptoms for the person who gets the Delta variant, but the vaccine also makes them more..... dangerous to the population in general (vaxxed and unvaxxed) because they're so not sick they don't realize they can still pass it on to others by not masking or isolating.

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How are you feeling americus?

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

The way I see it, as a vaccinated person who chooses to go unmasked, I'm doing a public service. It is almost exclusively the unvaccinated who are affected by the Delta variant. The vast majority of those who obstinately remain unmasked and unvaccinated (notwithstanding those previously infected) more or less are inviting the virus to come get them. No problem. As a vaccinated spreader, I'm obliging their wish. The more we can spread the virus amongst the unvaccinated, the less we have to deal with it in the future.

Call me a callous bastard, I don't care. Either get the shot or get infected so we can close the book on this royal pain in the [BLEEP] - and enabler of overreaching politicians - called COVID.

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Wow, coming to America?

Evidently a guy didn’t mask up between bites… https://t.co/zvjsl3ZeG9

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I never thought I’d say this, but I’m looking forward to my second shot this upcoming Saturday.

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How are you feeling americus

I'm feeling much better, thank you for asking. :-) Still feeling fatigue and insomnia but the severe sinus pain and pressure is gone. My food and coffee starting to taste relatively normal again. There for about 10 days it all tasted nasty.

I think the worst feeling was my eyes being swollen almost shut and I couldn't stand to touch any part of my face at all. My eyes and nose were running like a faucet so I had to keep dabbing with my Kleenex and, sometimes, with a cold cloth.

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How are you feeling americus

I'm feeling much better, thank you for asking. :-) Still feeling fatigue and insomnia but the severe sinus pain and pressure is gone. My food and coffee starting to taste relatively normal again. There for about 10 days it all tasted nasty.

I think the worst feeling was my eyes being swollen almost shut and I couldn't stand to touch any part of my face at all. My eyes and nose were running like a faucet so I had to keep dabbing with my Kleenex and, sometimes, with a cold cloth.

Glad to hear things are getting better for you!  Keep it up.

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I'm feeling much better, thank you for asking. :-) Still feeling fatigue and insomnia but the severe sinus pain and pressure is gone. My food and coffee starting to taste relatively normal again. There for about 10 days it all tasted nasty.

I think the worst feeling was my eyes being swollen almost shut and I couldn't stand to touch any part of my face at all. My eyes and nose were running like a faucet so I had to keep dabbing with my Kleenex and, sometimes, with a cold cloth.

Glad to hear things are getting better for you!  Keep it up.

Thank you!

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I never thought I’d say this, but I’m looking forward to my second shot this upcoming Saturday.

Don't forget that an antihistamine like Claritin can help mitigate some of the side effects. Good luck!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Super spreader event...

NEW: This is the largest group of migrants we’ve ever seen being held by Border Patrol under Anzalduas Bridge in Mission, TX. Looks like it could be up to 1,000 people. We can only get a look at the area with our drone. There’s a popular Rio Grande crossing area nearby. @FoxNews https://t.co/AsAygsO966

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I never thought I’d say this, but I’m looking forward to my second shot this upcoming Saturday.

Don't forget that an antihistamine like Claritin can help mitigate some of the side effects. Good luck!

So can Ivermectin, but our institutions aren't even looking into it. I wonder why? Could it be that there's no money to be made there? Every study by Ivermectin is being done by clinicians, and the results are promising enough that it should be being looked into by the institutions designed to help us, but it's not. Let's just vaccinate everyone, even those who already had it, even though there's no evidence that will help them. Oh, and looks like moderna and pfizer just raised prices in EU. Any of the profit going to come back to the American people? Considering we helped fund it? This whole thing is a racket.

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Don't forget that an antihistamine like Claritin can help mitigate some of the side effects. Good luck!

So can Ivermectin, but our institutions aren't even looking into it. I wonder why? Could it be that there's no money to be made there? Every study by Ivermectin is being done by clinicians, and the results are promising enough that it should be being looked into by the institutions designed to help us, but it's not. Let's just vaccinate everyone, even those who already had it, even though there's no evidence that will help them. Oh, and looks like moderna and pfizer just raised prices in EU. Any of the profit going to come back to the American people? Considering we helped fund it? This whole thing is a racket.

Or it could be that the RCT for Ivermectin was fabricated.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021...l-concerns

On the other hand, it took me about 5 minutes to find multiple completed and ongoing studies of Ivermectin, so maybe you've made some unfounded assumptions?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Don Mattingly got Covid. He is fully vaccinated.

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So can Ivermectin, but our institutions aren't even looking into it. I wonder why? Could it be that there's no money to be made there? Every study by Ivermectin is being done by clinicians, and the results are promising enough that it should be being looked into by the institutions designed to help us, but it's not. Let's just vaccinate everyone, even those who already had it, even though there's no evidence that will help them. Oh, and looks like moderna and pfizer just raised prices in EU. Any of the profit going to come back to the American people? Considering we helped fund it? This whole thing is a racket.

Or it could be that the RCT for Ivermectin was fabricated.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021...l-concerns

On the other hand, it took me about 5 minutes to find multiple completed and ongoing studies of Ivermectin, so maybe you've made some unfounded assumptions?

C'mon, dude. You should know better than that. Even if that study is faked, there are multiple studies that suggest otherwise. Not at a rate of 90%, but the more common and reliable answer is reduced mortality by 60%. Some of them have been peer reviewed. And, yes, I get that there are other studies that contradict that, but you missed my point.

The point is that no major "neutral" organization is even putting any research into it. And, the drug company that made it is the main company that's pushing back against it, because theylost their patent. Instead, they are actively trying to make a similar drug that does the same thing, but is different enough to patent. What are the odds that that one will treat covid? I bet it's pretty high.

I don't care if it is or isn't effective. I care that policy is once again clearly moving in the direction of profit. The same thing happened with Hydroxychloroquine. Politicized, then shut down for profit, then reluctantly admitting it has some effectiveness as a prophylactic, despite all of the studies that came out against it early on.

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