Like ignorant people that believe the CDC and WHO?

I was thinking more like those who listen to noted crackpot and insurrectionist Simone Gold.

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Ask them where you can get the FDA approved vaccine? It doesn't exist in the US. Then tell them they cannot mandate a EUA vaccine.

Realisticly though, contact a lawyer and find out what you need to do to win your case. Things like don't tell them your status, record everything or get it in writing, make them fire you, etc. If you know a bunch of coworkers in the same situation, go to a lawyer together. A large enough group and they will stop their plans.

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Yeah, good luck with that. I guess now Covid makes everyone a lawyer too.

I'll take her word over our governments any day of the week and twice on Friday. Also, how can she be an insurrectionist when she was not armed and did not attack anyone?

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

I'm not usually on the side of lawyers, but this is one topic I can rally behind against vaccine mandates.

We haven't even begun to see the ambulance chasers going after stores that were late to the "wear a mask" party. In 10 years, commercials will be as abundant as mesothelioma and asbestos commercials.

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I was thinking more like those who listen to noted crackpot and insurrectionist Simone Gold.

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Yeah, good luck with that. I guess now Covid makes everyone a lawyer too.

I'll take her word over our governments any day of the week and twice on Friday. Also, how can she be an insurrectionist when she was not armed and did not attack anyone?

Well, as I said...

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

FSG, you can continue to malign those guys if you want, but you can't deny the CDC's handling of this is terrible. Our data collection is terrible. Our methodology is terrible. I don't believe we can get from them what we really need to make the best decisions moving forward. I rely heavily on Israel for data because they are tracking this better, they have been proven to be correct again and again, and they have also changed their policies as the data has changed. None of that is true for the CDC. Other nations also seem to be shortly behind Isreal in their research. Not the US, though.

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That's just it. The medical community does inform our opinions. The MSM takes one opinion and twists it to fit their narrative, and the right wing media takes a different opinion to fit their narrative. Ivermectin is a safe drug. The vaccine is effective at reducing the severity of covid. The risk of the vaccine seems small at this point. The vaccine does little to stop the spread of Covid. Occasionally, people who are dumb kill themselves by playing doctor. The variants seem to come from unvaccinated populations that haven't been hit hard by covid. Natural immunity is superior to the vaccination. All of those things are true.

There are so many people on this board that are misinformed, both right and left. It doesn't matter that there are a bunch of conflicting studies. Everyone thinks they know everything. Instead of saying we aren't sure, and letting people make choices in their best interests, they all take one stance and then shift it to fit their point of view. Some of that makes sense as the data is unknown, but it's astounding to me that people can't shift their views as they learn new information. It's like thinking becomes stuck. We have to become less dogmatic in our approach to life. Society has never thrived where people are restricted.

Blaming the media or government for distortions is fine but anyone has the option of finding out for themselves. The CDC has tons of information. The WHO has their own website with information. There have been many legit academic and hospital studies both US-based and international, confirming the benefits of the vaccine. None of those are likely to recommend Ivermectin as a treatment. Hydrogen peroxide in a nebulizer will not make you immune. Nor will methylene chloride.

Natural immunity has not been proven superior to vaccination (I know there's an un-peer reviewed Israeli study you referenced that says otherwise, but that contradicts previous studies). Moreover, natural immunity requires you to first get the virus which people should be trying to avoid due to the unnecessary risk of death, disability or passing it on to others. The CDC recommends the vaccine even for people that have previously been diagnosed with the virus because there's not enough known about how long natural immunity will protect those people.  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...s/faq.html

There's irony in that you're right that everyone thinks they know everything which is why I keep mentioning the data and the science. Look at the CDC information. Look at the studies (not just one). Take questionable sources such as fly by night websites with several large grains of salt. It's Critical Thinking 101.

Marley, I have posted many, many studies. I am perfectly capable of changing my mind when new data comes out. I have done it multiple times in this thread. I have conceded points to pro-vax positions, and even aided in their defense when I feel like the covid anti-vaxxers are missing something. I have been right about almost every position I have claimed. I was two weeks early with regards to the idea that the vaccinated were spreading the virus. FSG argued with me. He was wrong. That's because he was following the CDC. I was looking at the data. That's one example of many. If I went through this thread, I think I am 5 for 5 on predictions, depending on if you count my concerns about ADE, but, personally, I don't consider myself making any claim there. It's always just been a concern I want to follow. Other people might see it differently.

On the things that I don't know, I say I don't know. Let's clarify what I mean there: Reserving judgement is a perfectly fine thing to do when the data is unclear. The problem is people aren't doing that. They claim the know the TRUTH. They are looking at mixed data, then completely dismissing the opposing point of view. That's not wise. I am not dismissing any data that is presented until I've looked at the methodology. If that's bad, then I am more inclined to dismiss it, but I still keep it in the back of my mind. Just because the methodology is bad, doesn't meant it's wrong. If the methodology seems sound and goes against what I think, I have to adjust what I think. 

Just yesterday, I did that in this thread when I started looking up the origins of the variants. I was hoping to show that some of them corresponded with large vaccine rollouts, but that's not what I found. I found that all of them occurred prior to the vaccination, and the one that didn't developed in a nation where only 4% of the populations was vaccinated. So, I now think that it's much more likely to get variants in an unvaccinated population. But you know what? I can't know that. I really need to watch this year and see what happens now. Don't you agree the picture will become more clear this year now that most western populations are vaccinated? We will be able to see where the variants break out. Which ones are breaththroughs. Which ones are more deadly or more contagious. Then you can start to paint a picture of what's happening. You can't do that right now. 

When data is unclear, I feel you should err on the side of caution. FSG again is claiming Ivermectin does nothing. He doesn't actually know that. I admit I don't know, but, when prescribed properly it isn't going to hurt anyone. If I'm wrong, it's probably not a big deal. On the flip side, I don't know if ADE is going to be a problem with the vaccine. FSG knows it isn't, but he doesn't really. If he's wrong, it could be a big deal. Now, I know he hates it when I speak of ADE. The longer this goes on, the less I become concerned with it, but you actually have to watch how something is developing to know how it's going to do, especially when there was never a long-term test for this vaccine in humans. 

One more thing: The very few, stupid people that are killing themselves with Ivermectin are doing so because they mistrust our institutions that much. A drug that is perfectly safe, labeled for off-brand use, and MIGHT have some potential for treating a novel disease is attempting to be banned by the AMA. It's [BLEEP] dumb. That perpetuates mistrust, and people who are smart enough to know they are being lied to, but too dumb to do basic math are suffering from it. If FSG wanted to do some good, he'd bite the bullet and let people take that mild drug, even if only as a placebo, because the odds of anyone dying when prescribed properly is basically zero. But instead of considering the damage these institutions are causing by trying to create ironclad rules, he'll just get on here and mock them. 

Sorry for busting your balls, FSG. I think you're intelligent and well meaning. Just think you're not being fair minded about this.

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So instead of going through the trouble of getting vaccinated all I had to do was calculate the proper dosage of horse medicine from a feed store? I feel so foolish.

Plus your wife might appreciate the side effects!

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fu...le/2784013

And hospitals want to fire unvaccinated personnel....

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No. You just have to get vaccinated if you think that's what's best for you. Then, anyone else who wants natural immunity for themselves can figure out how they want to try to mitigate the worst effects of the virus. You literally don't have to do anything but watch.

Unfortunately, this false belief is what allows the virus to continue to propagate. Listen, I'm against officials trying to legislate vaccine compliance but as a society, we've done a poor job of educating people about the benefits of vaccines. There's so much anti-vaccine misinformation in this thread, it's crazy.

Where do you see anti vaccine sentiment as a whole?  I see people questioning THIS vaccine.  A huge difference.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Also, you failed to show why it's a false belief.

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Unfortunately, this false belief is whattallows the virus to continue to propagate. Listen, I'm against officials trying to legislate vaccine compliance but as a society, we've done a poor job of educating people about the benefits of vaccines. There's so much anti-vaccine misinformation in this thread, it's crazy.

Where do you see anti vaccine sentiment as a whole?  I see people questioning THIS vaccine.  A huge difference.

The anti-vaxer movement is bigger than you might think. Being reticent about this vaccine but being ok with others is pretty nutty. The technology to develop vaccines has increased dramatically in the last couple of decades and hundreds of millions of people have received it to good effect. People sometimes fear change, especially where technology is concerned. I work in an industry where I see a lot of that.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

It's fine to fear change. One of the psychological traits that defines liberals in America is openness. That's a good thing. It's also a bad thing. Just like being cautious can be a good and bad thing. I think people will largely operate in their own self-interest. If this virus evolves to the level of the Spanish Flu, almost everyone, regardless of politics, will sign up for a novel vaccine. The fact that people are still pushing the vaccine when the CDC estimates that 75% of the population has been inoculated against the virus is just weird. I think it's fine to be mistrusting in this instance. While I agree that there is a lot of anti-vax rhetoric surrounding the Covid vaccine, this doesn't happen if a majority of the population trusted the government to make decisions in their best interest. If the institutions want to solve this problem, they need to clean up their act.

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Geez. “Success against #COVID19 will likely require both vaccines & treatments,” Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla tweeted on Wednesday. This dude is also pushing for boosters. Can we not acknowledge this is a cash cow for this company?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/57...t-covid-19

75% of the population has the antibodies for a disease that doesn't kill 99% of the population. Unless this virus mutates into something more deadly, we're pretty much set moving forward, but not until these guys take more of our money. It took 19 years in Afghanistan to realize we were being ripped off. How many years of this do we have to endure. Yes. This is an accusation without proof, but it's not unfounded.

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Geez. “Success against #COVID19 will likely require both vaccines & treatments,” Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla tweeted on Wednesday. This dude is also pushing for boosters. Can we not acknowledge this is a cash cow for this company?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/57...t-covid-19

75% of the population has the antibodies for a disease that doesn't kill 99% of the population. Unless this virus mutates into something more deadly, we're pretty much set moving forward, but not until these guys take more of our money. It took 19 years in Afghanistan to realize we were being ripped off. How many years of this do we have to endure. Yes. This is an accusation without proof, but it's not unfounded.

Speaking of, Oscar De LaHoya is is hospitalized with COVID-19 after vax and fight next weekend canceled. 

Hope he recovers.

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It's fine to fear change. One of the psychological traits that defines liberals in America is openness. That's a good thing. It's also a bad thing. Just like being cautious can be a good and bad thing. I think people will largely operate in their own self-interest. If this virus evolves to the level of the Spanish Flu, almost everyone, regardless of politics, will sign up for a novel vaccine. The fact that people are still pushing the vaccine when the CDC estimates that 75% of the population has been inoculated against the virus is just weird. I think it's fine to be mistrusting in this instance. While I agree that there is a lot of anti-vax rhetoric surrounding the Covid vaccine, this doesn't happen if a majority of the population trusted the government to make decisions in their best interest. If the institutions want to solve this problem, they need to clean up their act.

Ding, ding, ding, ding!

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Geez. “Success against #COVID19 will likely require both vaccines & treatments,” Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla tweeted on Wednesday. This dude is also pushing for boosters. Can we not acknowledge this is a cash cow for this company?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/57...t-covid-19

75% of the population has the antibodies for a disease that doesn't kill 99% of the population. Unless this virus mutates into something more deadly, we're pretty much set moving forward, but not until these guys take more of our money. It took 19 years in Afghanistan to realize we were being ripped off. How many years of this do we have to endure. Yes. This is an accusation without proof, but it's not unfounded.

Boosters every 4-6 months, although they are saying 3 times a year, and daily pills to survive. Sometimes the treatment is worse than the virus.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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A pill…probably a combo of ivermectin and hcq so they can charge a lot more for it than they can get for them separately.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

I wonder what liberals would say now. My body my choice ... for an abortion... but only if you are vaccinated.

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I wonder what liberals would say now. My body my choice ... for an abortion... but only if you are vaccinated.

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LOL, the biggest hypocritical freaks in the world, the American DemoRAT

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

I don't get you guys. You don't even agree with my body, my choice. People who are pro-life think that's a statement, because you aren't harming your body, you're harming the baby's body. Pro-choice people intentionally bury their heads in the sand to ignore that fact. Now you guys are walking around saying it, doing the exact same thing. Pro-vax people aren't concerned about your body. They are concerned about the bodies of other people. There is a perfectly logical answer to that, rooted in science, and trying to reduce the argument to a slogan is just as dumb as when they do it. I realize you are mocking them with it, but it's ineffective.

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I don't get you guys. You don't even agree with my body, my choice. People who are pro-life think that's a statement, because you aren't harming your body, you're harming the baby's body. Pro-choice people intentionally bury their heads in the sand to ignore that fact. Now you guys are walking around saying it, doing the exact same thing. Pro-vax people aren't concerned about your body. They are concerned about the bodies of other people. There is a perfectly logical answer to that, rooted in science, and trying to reduce the argument to a slogan is just as dumb as when they do it. I realize you are mocking them with it, but it's ineffective.

Either you are being obtuse, or you are willfully being ignorant. The vaccine supposedly protects the taker from the virus (it does not) and if I decide for whatever reason that I do not want to take the vaccine it should have no effect on the people that DO take the vaccine. Therefore, it is MY BODY, MY CHOICE, follow me? Also, as someone that has natural immunities which are proven to be much stronger than the vaccine I am in no danger of catching it again, nor transmitting it. Now, this whole thread has proven one thing, that the science is FAR FROM SETTLED on this. The supposed experts have bungled it so badly that there is no reliable consensus and this is just another reason for people opposed to getting the vaccine have a valid argument, their body, their choice. Them deciding NOT to get the vaccine is hurting no one, except MAYBE themselves. 

The evidence is building that vaccinated people are still catching the virus and still dying from the virus. That should concern everyone that has gotten the jab.

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"