What is not seen in front of a dead lawyer in the middle of the road?

Skid marks.

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What is not seen in front of a dead lawyer in the middle of the road?

Skid marks.

What does a lawyer get when he takes a Viagra?

Taller.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What is not seen in front of a dead lawyer in the middle of the road?

Skid marks.

What does a lawyer get when he takes a Viagra?

Taller.

What do you call 10 dead lawyers at the bottom of a swimming pool?

A start.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

You answered your own question. They are making these decisions in the interest of self-preservation. I have said this before. 

Almost nobody is following "the science." They are following our corrupted institutions who are not following the greater body of evidence but the almighty dollar. If the institution is corrupt, and it holds sway in judicial matters, the courts will often rely on their testimony, even if it's bonkers. Kind of like the election stuff. Trump had no standing because he had no institutional support. The writing is on the wall for this as well, and businesses know it. Comply and get by. 

I took a jacket into Men's Warehouse today to get an adjustment made, and they told me they couldn't tailor the blazer unless I had it dry cleaned first. Lol. What? Why was that policy made, FSG? It doesn't make any sense. It certainly doesn't follow any of the data about Covid. They said it was to protect their tailors from Covid. It could just be that their leadership is stupid, and doesn't know anything about this virus or they really could just be trying to gain protection from liability. Why not both? Kind of reminded me of waiving testing in people who have been vaccinated. Nonsensical policy that doesn't actually protect anyone, but it's satisfactory enough for companies to make the most people while insulating themselves from lawsuits.

It's really interesting how cynical you've become. You're attributing the worst characteristics of humanity to thousands of business owners across the nation. I don't know why your tailor made that call. Maybe his brother owns the dry cleaners next door and he's driving him business. Maybe he's scared and wants to do everything possible to protect his employees from Covid. Maybe it's purely driven by risk mitigation. But your assessment is made from your own place of cynicism and distrust of...well, pretty much everything, and when you can't give anyone the benefit of the doubt about anything that's a hard place to live.

I did not say some mom and pop shop made a bad policy. I said Men's Wearhouse mad a bad policy. That's a giant corporation. I think they are genuinely trying their best to CYA and don't know how to because the agencies that are supposed to help with this are corrupt and failing miserably. I'm simply recognizing a cause and effect relationship that is creating unnecessary burdens in our society. That's not cynicism. I'm am being critical, though. I'll accept that accusation.

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Also, why do lawyers wear ties? To keep the foreskin from coming up over their heads.

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It's really interesting how cynical you've become. You're attributing the worst characteristics of humanity to thousands of business owners across the nation. I don't know why your tailor made that call. Maybe his brother owns the dry cleaners next door and he's driving him business. Maybe he's scared and wants to do everything possible to protect his employees from Covid. Maybe it's purely driven by risk mitigation. But your assessment is made from your own place of cynicism and distrust of...well, pretty much everything, and when you can't give anyone the benefit of the doubt about anything that's a hard place to live.

I did not say some mom and pop shop made a bad policy. I said Men's Wearhouse mad a bad policy. That's a giant corporation. I think they are genuinely trying their best to CYA and don't know how to because the agencies that are supposed to help with this are corrupt and failing miserably. I'm simply recognizing a cause and effect relationship that is creating unnecessary burdens in our society. That's not cynicism. I'm am being critical, though. I'll accept that accusation.

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Also, why do lawyers wear ties? To keep the foreskin from coming up over their heads.

You know that correlation is not causation.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Break it down for me, kind sir. How am I mistaking correlation for causation. If you want to make this about one example, I guess you could be right, but I can list hundreds. Our organizations have done a terrible job with communicating what this disease is and who it actually affects. No one should think that dry cleaning clothes is going to keep them safe from Covid.

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Mine issued it this morning, have some federal contracts but it  is a very small part of the overall revenue but they still are going to try and force all US employees. They don't care that you don't work in that one group, work from home, etc. Makes no sense other than a power trip.

Have to file my exemption and talk to a lawyer. They also are saying they aren't going to fire you, just make you unpaid.

There goes any extra hours and probably not working Fridays until my exemption is approved.

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OSHA hasn't even done anything yet. They are trying to scare as many employers into bending the knee as possible before people realize OSHA can't actually do anything. 

Stand firm.

Unfortunately there is an executive order, so they are able to try and mandate it because most large companies have some type of federal contracts and are therefore federal contractors. There is no real enforcement side of it other than them writing it into new contracts.

My company has a 1 question form that is worded very clearly. I'm not sure what their goal is by it as I can't tell if they are doing that to just blank reject them or make it easy to approve them. They even put that you are certifying your sincere religious beliefs are truthful. Will be interesting to see what happens. My company has recently been losing age discrimination suits and there are several lawyers out there fighting them.

I'm not going to take it and will submit my exemption this weekend. Then I'll document everything I have, all reviews, all communications, record anything going forward, etc. If they deny it, then I file an EEOC complaint and with the state of FL. Once that happens, lawyers will get involved. If they follow the law, they can't deny the religious exemption as it is an EEOC and/or Civil Rights Act violation. I'll do testing if they really try to enforce it (on their time).

There is also an option of legally conditionally accepting their offer if they provide informed consent, personally and corporately take all legal responsibility for injuries, and provide the FDA approved vaccine which is Corminaty (sp?). I'm not going to go that route yet because the religious exemption form is so simple that it does not seem they are looking to blanket deny them.

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OSHA hasn't even done anything yet. They are trying to scare as many employers into bending the knee as possible before people realize OSHA can't actually do anything. 

Stand firm.

Unfortunately there is an executive order, so they are able to try and mandate it because most large companies have some type of federal contracts and are therefore federal contractors. There is no real enforcement side of it other than them writing it into new contracts.

My company has a 1 question form that is worded very clearly. I'm not sure what their goal is by it as I can't tell if they are doing that to just blank reject them or make it easy to approve them. They even put that you are certifying your sincere religious beliefs are truthful. Will be interesting to see what happens. My company has recently been losing age discrimination suits and there are several lawyers out there fighting them.

I'm not going to take it and will submit my exemption this weekend. Then I'll document everything I have, all reviews, all communications, record anything going forward, etc. If they deny it, then I file an EEOC complaint and with the state of FL. Once that happens, lawyers will get involved. If they follow the law, they can't deny the religious exemption as it is an EEOC and/or Civil Rights Act violation. I'll do testing if they really try to enforce it (on their time).

There is also an option of legally conditionally accepting their offer if they provide informed consent, personally and corporately take all legal responsibility for injuries, and provide the FDA approved vaccine which is Corminaty (sp?). I'm not going to go that route yet because the religious exemption form is so simple that it does not seem they are looking to blanket deny them.

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I am a little surprised that a Trump appointed judge hasn't shot down this unconstitutional EO yet. 

As far as the religious exemption, if you are against the use of fetal cells in the development of vaccines and other medications,  let that be known. They will then ask you to confirm you don't take another list of drugs that used fetal cells in their development. 

Also, the details are very fuzzy on federal contractors right now. Bottom line, this EO needs to be shut down by a judge with some balls. This issue is large enough for me to not vote GOP if I don't feel like they have my back on this.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8437699/

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Break it down for me, kind sir. How am I mistaking correlation for causation. If you want to make this about one example, I guess you could be right, but I can list hundreds. Our organizations have done a terrible job with communicating what this disease is and who it actually affects. No one should think that dry cleaning clothes is going to keep them safe from Covid.

I did quick check to see if TMW has a corporate policy on that situation but didn't find anything, so we (I anyway) don't know if that's a single store or company-wide policy. As for your last sentence, the guy probably read a few studies and some articles on Natural News and InfoWars and put what they had to say into action. The Correlation and Causation in this issue is your assumption that the government's mandate or other activities had anything to do with their decision on dry cleaning, when as we've seen with much of what's going on here, anything the government suggests results in refusal or intentionally doing the opposite.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I am a little surprised that a Trump appointed judge hasn't shot down this unconstitutional EO yet. 

As far as the religious exemption, if you are against the use of fetal cells in the development of vaccines and other medications,  let that be known. They will then ask you to confirm you don't take another list of drugs that used fetal cells in their development. 

Also, the details are very fuzzy on federal contractors right now. Bottom line, this EO needs to be shut down by a judge with some balls. This issue is large enough for me to not vote GOP if I don't feel like they have my back on this.

Yep that will be the basis for mine but only a section. I haven't had any vaccines as an adult so covered there but I'm also checking my meds I take.

Just have to keep anything political, questioning the vaccine need, etc out of the letter. They cannot question your beliefs even if they are wrong, so you just have to calmly state your beliefs if asked. Even if I wrongly believe a med I take doesn't use fetal cells, I just have to state that we will have to agree to disagree.

They can only legally deny it if you show you don't believe it. So if they ask to talk to you, either have a lawyer with you, they will have their lawyers, or just don't talk to too much and just stick to your beliefs you stated.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

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I am a little surprised that a Trump appointed judge hasn't shot down this unconstitutional EO yet. 

As far as the religious exemption, if you are against the use of fetal cells in the development of vaccines and other medications,  let that be known. They will then ask you to confirm you don't take another list of drugs that used fetal cells in their development. 

Also, the details are very fuzzy on federal contractors right now. Bottom line, this EO needs to be shut down by a judge with some balls. This issue is large enough for me to not vote GOP if I don't feel like they have my back on this.

Yep that will be the basis for mine but only a section. I haven't had any vaccines as an adult so covered there but I'm also checking my meds I take.

Just have to keep anything political, questioning the vaccine need, etc out of the letter. They cannot question your beliefs even if they are wrong, so you just have to calmly state your beliefs if asked. Even if I wrongly believe a med I take doesn't use fetal cells, I just have to state that we will have to agree to disagree.

They can only legally deny it if you show you don't believe it. So if they ask to talk to you, either have a lawyer with you, they will have their lawyers, or just don't talk to too much and just stick to your beliefs you stated.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I may be wrong, but don't believe the flu vaccination uses fetal cells, so you are in the clear there. If you were vaccinated as a child with one of the vaccines that does use them I'm sure it's justifiable that it was out of your control when you were a month old. 

Also, when a religious organization can pop up in an old Wal-Mart, not sure there is any leg to stand on when questioning how your religion ties into your beliefs.

The fact we are even talking about this is pretty unbelievable.

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Break it down for me, kind sir. How am I mistaking correlation for causation. If you want to make this about one example, I guess you could be right, but I can list hundreds. Our organizations have done a terrible job with communicating what this disease is and who it actually affects. No one should think that dry cleaning clothes is going to keep them safe from Covid.

I did quick check to see if TMW has a corporate policy on that situation but didn't find anything, so we (I anyway) don't know if that's a single store or company-wide policy. As for your last sentence, the guy probably read a few studies and some articles on Natural News and InfoWars and put what they had to say into action. The Correlation and Causation in this issue is your assumption that the government's mandate or other activities had anything to do with their decision on dry cleaning, when as we've seen with much of what's going on here, anything the government suggests results in refusal or intentionally doing the opposite.

I said it's the lack of clear messaging from the government that has lead to this mess. I've stated that twice now. Stop reading into what I'm saying.

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Yep that will be the basis for mine but only a section. I haven't had any vaccines as an adult so covered there but I'm also checking my meds I take.

Just have to keep anything political, questioning the vaccine need, etc out of the letter. They cannot question your beliefs even if they are wrong, so you just have to calmly state your beliefs if asked. Even if I wrongly believe a med I take doesn't use fetal cells, I just have to state that we will have to agree to disagree.

They can only legally deny it if you show you don't believe it. So if they ask to talk to you, either have a lawyer with you, they will have their lawyers, or just don't talk to too much and just stick to your beliefs you stated.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I may be wrong, but 8 don't believe the flu vaccination uses fecal cells, so you are in the clear there. If you were vaccinated as a child with one of the vaccines that does use them I'm sure it's justifiable that it was out of your control when you were a month old. 

Also, when a religious organization can pop up in an old Wal-Mart,  not sure there is any leg to stand on when questioning how your religion ties into your beliefs.

The fact we are even talking about this is pretty unbelievable.

That’s a pretty crappy take.

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I may be wrong, but 8 don't believe the flu vaccination uses fecal cells, so you are in the clear there. If you were vaccinated as a child with one of the vaccines that does use them I'm sure it's justifiable that it was out of your control when you were a month old. 

Also, when a religious organization can pop up in an old Wal-Mart,  not sure there is any leg to stand on when questioning how your religion ties into your beliefs.

The fact we are even talking about this is pretty unbelievable.

That’s a pretty crappy take.

Haha. Apparently my phone likes poop more than babies.

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I did quick check to see if TMW has a corporate policy on that situation but didn't find anything, so we (I anyway) don't know if that's a single store or company-wide policy. As for your last sentence, the guy probably read a few studies and some articles on Natural News and InfoWars and put what they had to say into action. The Correlation and Causation in this issue is your assumption that the government's mandate or other activities had anything to do with their decision on dry cleaning, when as we've seen with much of what's going on here, anything the government suggests results in refusal or intentionally doing the opposite.

I said it's the lack of clear messaging from the government that has lead to this mess. I've stated that twice now. Stop reading into what I'm saying.

No, people taking advice from non-experts and morons on the internet that conflict with official messaging, along with conspiracy theory nonsense has resulted in this mess. The message is clear, get the vaccine, and has been pretty much since they put it in to practice, yet all the alternative Facebook experts and Mommy Group researchers do anything but that for a very few valid but mostly the dumbest of reasons. Then they whinge and complain that circumstances aren't getting better. I mean, [BLEEP], people in this thread are discussing legal strategies to avoid doing what the evil government said they should because, "You can't make me" and such. So yes, the messaging is the problem because the official messengers didn't just tell people to stop being stupid and get the damn shot.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

“I’m doing my own research” hahaha

And yet you most likely can’t even help your kid with their 5th grade math homework.

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“I’m doing my own research” hahaha

And yet you most likely can’t even help your kid with their 5th grade math homework.

If you are out of the math game for awhile it's challenging. I saw some of my kids 4th grade homework and it's legit.  I got up to differential equations in college, but it's amazing what you forget when you don't use it.

I now understand the premise for the  are you smarter than a 5th grader show.

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And we're back to the "because we can" argument. Based on [BLEEP] science. Most likely driven by profit. Novel vaccine. Ruining control groups. It doesn't matter what I do, you refuse to accept that the vaccine is not and should not be the end all, be all solution. You bury your head in the sand to the facts, and blame people for not wanting to take it. That's lazy. I think people have a right to wait and see. This vaccine isn't doing anything for people under 50 who are healthy. Even by the CDC's own admissions, it only saved 39k lives in the elderly. That's a 10 percent reduction in deaths and hospitalizations, which is good, but it's NOT the solution.

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I'm dumbfounded that you think that vaccination ends the debate. Nothing scientific supports that position, and if that's the CDC's sole advice, it's a perfect example of their ineptitude.

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And we're back to the "because we can" argument. Based on [BLEEP] science. Most likely driven by profit. Novel vaccine. Ruining control groups. It doesn't matter what I do, you refuse to accept that the vaccine is not and should not be the end all, be all solution. You bury your head in the sand to the facts, and blame people for not wanting to take it. That's lazy. I think people have a right to wait and see. This vaccine isn't doing anything for people under 50 who are healthy. Even by the CDC's own admissions, it only saved 39k lives in the elderly. That's a 10 percent reduction in deaths and hospitalizations, which is good, but it's NOT the solution.

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I'm dumbfounded that you think that vaccination ends the debate. Nothing scientific supports that position, and if that's the CDC's sole advice, it's a perfect example of their ineptitude.

There you go again. It wasn't their sole advice, but people took the fact that the vaccine isn't 100% effective as equivalent to it doesn't work at all (or is an instrument of mass genocide) and belittled additional instructions like continuing to mask after vaccination as if there was a contradiction. You write in broad stokes, eg doing nothing for people under 50 (that's nonsense and you know it) and pretend that the vaccine didn't do anything, yet the simple fact is that so many people refused to do what they were instructed to do that it's hypocritical to blame the people telling them to do it for what's happened.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato