Maybe Khan actually doesn't want to spend enough to win. What's the ROI if he spends a bunch of money to develop a winner in the smallest market in the NFL? Any NFL franchise is going to increase massively in value over time, even if they dont win a single game every year. We had the largest amt under the cap in this past off season, with the promise of those FA's working with a young generational QB, and what did we spend/get? There is such a thing in business as milking the assets. From a $ perspective, Khan may be doing exactly what he planned when acquiring the franchise. And what better place to do so than with a team that already suffers from a lousy culture.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Rams didn't build that way, they better themselves, they already had good players.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

I think Khan wanted to try something different. I don’t fault him for that. However, now that it’s clear it’s not working, I hope he quickly reverses course.

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This team doesn't need to copy any other franchise but they do need to stop acting like the Jaguars franchise.

Truest statement ever posted in this forum

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This team doesn't need to copy any other franchise but they do need to stop acting like the Jaguars franchise.

Truest statement ever posted in this forum

Lol beautiful statement

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Thanks for the kind words.

As for Ramsey, we'll vehemently disagree on that.

As you know, I've never had much use for Vic Ketchman.  But one of my favorite quotes from him was "Football is not a game for the well adjusted."  Over the course of a year, there is going to be conflict between a group of 53 players and maybe a dozen or more coaches, plus management/ownership.  It's inevitable.   You say Ramsey is this contemptible human being, but what has he done that was SOOO bad?  He had the child out of wedlock with the sister of the Giants' (?) WR and then dumped her.  He had the thing after the Ngakoue and Fowler fight where he acosted the media.  He had the interview with GQ where he trashed several opposing QBs.  He had the training camp arrival with the Brinks truck, supposedly had some not flattering things to say about Calais Campbell, the thing in Houston, and when that escalated further, he quit on the team to force a trade.  None of that is ideal behavior, to be sure.  But how has that translated into disaster for the Rams?  Have the Rams not been a winning team since his arrival?  Hasn't he agreed to a long term deal with them since he arrived?  Has there been any serious locker room turmoil surrounding him?  Have there been any violations of the league's personal conduct or substance abuse policies by him leading to suspensions?  Have there been any arrests?  In an ideal world, we'd love for all players to be boy scouts in terms of behavior, attitude, etc.  But where is the link between whatever undesirable/dysfunctional character traits Ramsey may have and negative team performance/outcomes with the Rams?  Conversely, Henderson and Campbell haven't displayed the things Ramsey did from a character standpoint, yet neither has contributed anywhere near as positive results in their combined short tenures here as Ramsey did in his first two years here.  I would suggest that his football skills far outweigh whatever character flaws he may have or you may find distasteful.  The Rams obviously agree, because they signed him to a long term deal, he continues to start for them, is one of the best defensive players in the league and starring on a Rams defense with stars on each level of the defense.  He's probably the second best player on the team behind Aaron Donald, and he isn't that far behind.

Turd in the punchbowl?

Somehow I don't think the Rams would agree with your assessment given their actions on and off the field surrounding him.

But let's say Ramsey is every bit the lousy human being you say, and his flaws outweigh what he provides on the field.  That can't possibly be true for every player we've jettisoned during that time, can it?

What did Ngakoue do that was so bad?  Fought a teammate?  Get in contentious contract negotiations with the team?

Fournette?  Miss team photos, and have the meltdown in Buffalo?

This team, this town, this fanbase is too quick to label guys as pariahs and push to get rid of them.

Charlie Casserly observed that first round picks have maybe a 50% chance of becoming a solid starter for the team that drafted them, and the odds go down considerably per round.  We had a string of players between 2016 and 2020 to actually beat those odds and not just become quality starters but Pro bowl or better caliber players, and we got rid of them all before they ever got their second contracts with the team.  They all were painted as malcontents, etc., and they all went on to produce for subsequent teams who have all been far more successful than we have been.

This has GOT to stop!

The Ramsey situation was handled terribly by the previous regime. He should of had a contract long ago making it hard to even move him. During Ramsey's tenure here he was very immature but a strong front office and head coach would have handled that easily. We had neither. Same goes for all the other headcases Fournette and Ngakoue.

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Agreed completely.

As I recall, every other pick ahead of him in that draft had already gotten a new deal.  Even though ramsey performed at their level or better, he was the only one in that top 5 who didn't not get the new deal at the time.  How would 2019 have played out had Ramsey gotten a new deal before then.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I've always been a proponent of building through the draft and adding some key pieces via FA.

Despite the Jags having multiple failed GMs accounting for a mountain of bad draft choices, I still believe it is the best way to build a roster.
It's just that landing a GM who can build that way effectively is probably about as difficult as finding a franchise QB in this league.
And we've seen how tough that has been for our team and many others around the league.

It's uncanny and unfortunate the way our GMs have been.

TC was good in picking first rounders, but pretty lousy picking after that, especially from the 3rd round down.

Shack was lousy in the first round, but good in the second and decent after that.

Gene Smith was lousy at everything.

After him,, Caldwell hit on some first rounders (Ramsey, Allen, arguably Fournette), got some impact at later parts of the draft, but miscalculated spectacularly at the QB posirtion (Bortles, skipping Watson and Mahomes) and sucked at player retention.

I don't feel good about Baalke and UM at all so far.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

As you know, I've never had much use for Vic Ketchman.  But one of my favorite quotes from him was "Football is not a game for the well adjusted."  Over the course of a year, there is going to be conflict between a group of 53 players and maybe a dozen or more coaches, plus management/ownership.  It's inevitable.   You say Ramsey is this contemptible human being, but what has he done that was SOOO bad?  He had the child out of wedlock with the sister of the Giants' (?) WR and then dumped her.  He had the thing after the Ngakoue and Fowler fight where he acosted the media.  He had the interview with GQ where he trashed several opposing QBs.  He had the training camp arrival with the Brinks truck, supposedly had some not flattering things to say about Calais Campbell, the thing in Houston, and when that escalated further, he quit on the team to force a trade.  None of that is ideal behavior, to be sure.  

Yes.
These are examples of a narcissist and a team cancer. 

But how has that translated into disaster for the Rams?  Have the Rams not been a winning team since his arrival?  Hasn't he agreed to a long term deal with them since he arrived?  Has there been any serious locker room turmoil surrounding him?  Have there been any violations of the league's personal conduct or substance abuse policies by him leading to suspensions?  Have there been any arrests?  In an ideal world, we'd love for all players to be boy scouts in terms of behavior, attitude, etc.  But where is the link between whatever undesirable/dysfunctional character traits Ramsey may have and negative team performance/outcomes with the Rams? 

these have not shown up during his tenure with the Rams as far as I know. As others in the threads have noted, he is on a better team with a stronger culture and staff. Also, he got what he wanted. He went to a big market team and got a big contract. He always displayed the attitude that he was too good to play in Jacksonville. I’ve got no use for a dude like that. 

Conversely, Henderson and Campbell haven't displayed the things Ramsey did from a character standpoint, yet neither has contributed anywhere near as positive results in their combined short tenures here as Ramsey did in his first two years here.

I don’t disagree. That’s on the front office, though. They could have found a competent skilled CB to replace him with, even if that person did not live up to Ramsey’s talent. 

 I would suggest that his football skills far outweigh whatever character flaws he may have or you may find distasteful.  The Rams obviously agree, because they signed him to a long term deal, he continues to start for them, is one of the best defensive players in the league and starring on a Rams defense with stars on each level of the defense.  He's probably the second best player on the team behind Aaron Donald, and he isn't that far behind.

We will just disagree on that. It’s not worth it to me to have his skill. I’d rather have a second Shaq than put up with Ramsey. And I don’t grant your estimation of his skill level. He’s no Revis or Sanders or Woodson. I don’t even think he’s a Sherman. 

Turd in the punchbowl?

 Yes. For me and my ability to cheer for the Rams in the playoffs. 

Somehow I don't think the Rams would agree with your assessment given their actions on and off the field surrounding him. 

That’s a given. 

But let's say Ramsey is every bit the lousy human being you say, and his flaws outweigh what he provides on the field.  That can't possibly be true for every player we've jettisoned during that time, can it?

I didn’t make that case. I agreed that we’ve gotten rid of too much talent. 

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Fix the O-Line!

I think we all can agree Baalke has been very suspect so far.

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The build through the draft model is becoming outdated I think. Coaches don't have a long enough grace period. I've always been a proponent of free agents because you already know they can play in the NFL. With any rookie, no matter how they looked in college, you never know if they'll translate.

I rather have a bird in the hand than two in the bush.

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I think we all can agree Baalke has been very suspect so far.

Didn't you just create a thread a couple weeks ago about how Baalke deserves more credit? 

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I think we all can agree Baalke has been very suspect so far.

Didn't you just create a thread a couple weeks ago about how Baalke deserves more credit? 

Trevor=horrendous
Baalke=underrated 

duh

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I think we all can agree Baalke has been very suspect so far.

Didn't you just create a thread a couple weeks ago about how Baalke deserves more credit? 

that was like two weeks into the season. Back then he DID look horrendous deserve more credit

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Jags just need to draft better.  

And spend more wisely in free agency.  Look at some of the high-priced free agents, Rayshawn Jenkins, Roy Robertson-Harris, Shaqille Griffin, etc.  Lots of salary cap dollars and high draft picks invested, but the Jags have the worst defense in the league.  Can't rush the passer, can't cover, can't create turnovers.  

Trading picks for players won't help.  Fix the true problems.

(Emphasis added)

We had guys who could do those things.  Young guys we acquired through the draft for the most part.  We utilized four firsts and a third to get them.  Throw in 2 or 3 free agents as well.

But the team, fans, and local media talking heads found it necessary to trade or cut every single one of them.  

Every.

Single. 

One.

It's not as though they were all old and past their primes.  Every single one of those guys-save one- are making some kind of contribution to their teams.

The one guy who hasn't yet just got traded, is a year and a half into his career, has more ability than any CB still on our roster.  He still has the chance to turn his career around.  Carolina could yet reap the benefits  of a top ten pick without the first round investment. 

Every single one are on teams better than we are.

Every.

Single.

One.

Now we're wondering why we can't do these things.  

Wondering why our defense is at the bottom of the league.  

Wondering why we had to spend another first round pick on a RB, why we made it a point to sign Carlos Hyde in free agency, and why we have zero depth at RB when James Robinson went down.

Wondering why we have no leadership.

Funny how that works.

Maybe, hopefully, in the not too distant future, before we completely ruin or otherwise waste Trevor Lawrence's tenure here, we can utilize the draft effectively to add some more guys who can do the things highlighted above and more.

Maybe then, we can stop listening to those who are quick to label players as team cancers and prescribe cures that are worse than the disease.

Maybe then, we can retain some of those best players and develop a roster of talent, production, leadership, maturity and continuity instead of giving them away for pennies on the dollar-at best-of the first sign of disagreement or problems.

Maybe then, we can have a team that isn't a league wide embarrassment for years on end.

The depressing thing is so far, this current administration seems unable to draft productive guys so far.

Sigh.

I've been reading the board for a few years now (rarely post) but this post sums up my biggest concern with this team. In my opinion when you are a small market team AND have had a history of losing you have to keep the talent you acquire and we've done exactly the opposite. I know the Ramsey debate and quite frankly when all the attitude was happening a part of me wanted him gone too. However, in just about every instance of our best players being labeled as a malcontent, the common denominator is the Jaguars front office. Yes we can't allow a player to act like Ramsey acted before being traded but the issue is he should have never reached that point. 

Marone should have never grabbed him while he was storming off the sideline which to any angry competitive person will be seen as an act of aggression which Ramsey did. Then Marone and Ramsey should have been allowed to work that out amongst themselves like men after the heat of the moment has passed but Dave Caldwell stepped in and made it worse by demeaning Ramsey and demanding more of an apology than what was already given. 

Coughlin calling out Fornette publicly instead of handling that internally (we should have never drafted a running back that high anyway - Robinson proves that), Yes Ngakoue wanted more money than he was worth but he wanted to be here and up to that point he was a bright spot on the defense so you pay the man. 

This franchise acts like they are the Patriots with how they have handled their star players. It's embarrassing. 

Why do all of these players go on to have good careers with other teams? Because their next team usually isn't the laughing stock of the league and they win. Winning is the biggest bonding tool any team has and brings out the best in players. Losing does the exact opposite which is why we've had issues with so many players. 

This front office needs to understand that and be proactive with how they handle these players instead of reactive. You will always have malcontent players on a losing team. Losing breads that. No good player is going to be happy with losing so our coaches and the front office need to understand that and be prepared for that instead of reacting to and labeling these players as having issues. This front office sorely needs a Dr. Sharon from Ted Lasso and get a grip on how they manage these players or history will always repeat itself which is what has been going on for the last decade.

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I think we all can agree Baalke has been very suspect so far.

Didn't you just create a thread a couple weeks ago about how Baalke deserves more credit? 

He did for some of us moves.  People paint him as the worst GM in history but I am saying he had pushed off some dead weight off the team.  Has he been great and have I ever said he has been great?  No!  Overall very suspect but not the Gene Smith level like some claim.

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Didn't you just create a thread a couple weeks ago about how Baalke deserves more credit? 

that was like two weeks into the season. Back then he DID look horrendous deserve more credit

No it was like 2 weeks ago on Oct 18th lol.

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Results from this year’s draft do not look promising at all. If Walker little eventually becomes elite and Trevor Lawrence continues to progress, then it will have been a success overall, But that is far from a given. All the other pics seem to be terrible.

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And the rams continue as they go get von Miller. They gave up a couple of draft picks. Win now baby.

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