"in college"

---

Are we using Clemson cut-ups to defend bad takes on Lawrence's rookie season now? 

Wh--Why?

---

My opinions are based on what I've seen with my eyes. I don't listen to NFLN or ESPN to formulate my thoughts. If you think Trevor was good last season tho, I'm sorry you're flat out wrong. I'm not saying he wont ever improve, I'm not saying he's a bust.. I'm simply saying that he played the way I expected him to out of Clemson. He had the same issues I saw watching him at Clemson. And while I did expect him to show his flaws, I definitely expected him to show some of his stronger attributes during the season and he didn't. And you can blame that on the Coaching/WRs/Oline whatever and I wont argue with you. But how are you going to blame a talentless roster for things he did in college with essentially an all-star team compared to most of his competiton? That's just ignorant.

Ignore the insulting title and dumb captions and just watch some of these throws and tell me, at what point do you stop blaming everyone else for his mistakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjZFsDNqfyk

So you're basing your point on Trevor having an unspectacular game when his team was badly outmatched and he had a shoulder injury?

"Unspectacular" in this case, being 33-48-400 2 TDs-1 INT leading the team to 28 points in only the 2nd loss of his 3 year college career.

Just so we're clear.

BTW, that video was far from persuasive.  Apparently some people don't understand the concept of the  back shoulder fade, or the idea that short passes could possibly be a part of a game plan, the idea WRs are largely responsible for separating from coverage.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

No dude, you seem to search the internet and cut snippets to spin to back up your opinion. You ignore the one that does not fit or cast a shadow your agenda.  It is ok with me you have the opinion you do. I am not going to call you names for it or question your intelligence.  It is your right to have a different opinion. I will agree in your mind it is truth.  However in my mind what you present is not truth (I am one of them) therefore it is not universally true.  (maybe just in your head)
I actually think the kid played the hand of cards he was dealt pretty well. That too is the truth.

My opinions are based on what I've seen with my eyes. I don't listen to NFLN or ESPN to formulate my thoughts. If you think Trevor was good last season tho, I'm sorry you're flat out wrong. I'm not saying he wont ever improve, I'm not saying he's a bust.. I'm simply saying that he played the way I expected him to out of Clemson. He had the same issues I saw watching him at Clemson. And while I did expect him to show his flaws, I definitely expected him to show some of his stronger attributes during the season and he didn't. And you can blame that on the Coaching/WRs/Oline whatever and I wont argue with you. But how are you going to blame a talentless roster for things he did in college with essentially an all-star team compared to most of his competiton? That's just ignorant.

Ignore the insulting title and dumb captions and just watch some of these throws and tell me, at what point do you stop blaming everyone else for his mistakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjZFsDNqfyk

LOL, you read the first bold section and read "he played good"', the next bold section.  nice try spinning that.  At least you admitted your opinion is not the Truth ... Football is a team game.  We did not have a very good team last year, no one played very good.  Defense had a few good games and the Colts game was good. The reason I am ok with last year is it is what I expected. All players (QB's in particular) that come from collegiate juggernauts have an adjustment period when faced with the speed of the pro game and the parity in the NFL. Some never make the transistion ... AKA Urban Myer....

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

So you're basing your point on Trevor having an unspectacular game when his team was badly outmatched and he had a shoulder injury?

"Unspectacular" in this case, being 33-48-400 2 TDs-1 INT leading the team to 28 points in only the 2nd loss of his 3 year college career.

Just so we're clear.

BTW, that video was far from persuasive.  Apparently some people don't understand the concept of the  back shoulder fade, or the idea that short passes could possibly be a part of a game plan, the idea WRs are largely responsible for separating from coverage.

Right, not a bad game, just that it's not nearly as good as most of his college games. Plus he had a shoulder injury that he had surgery on last off-season. It's telling how hard one has to look to make negative arguments about Trevor, and how lacking in perspective Chris seems.

I wonder if he knows that in Tom Brady's last five games against the Saints he's been a 60% passer with 8 tds and 8 ints.

---

Yeah I don’t get it. I’m rooting for our guy. Does that mean I think he played perfectly? No, and I would bet he would tell you the same. At the same time, I’m not going to take a glass half empty approach. It’s hard enough being a jags fan as an optimist!

---

This info, coming from what source exactly? Who decides if a pass is catchable or not? I'm sorry but, I assume you and most of the other people on this board watched the games last year.. he wasn't throwing a ton of catchable passes. It's not catchable when it goes flying 5 yards over your head or out the back of the endzone. 


I'm pretty sure we are all watching the same games, but sometimes I can't tell with how ignorant people on this board are when it comes to being bias. It's just funny because I went through this same crap in 2014-2015 with Bortles. It's okay to be biased for your team, it's not okay to be ignorant and completely blind.

I was at all the home games last year, and what I saw was that it was very seldom that our receivers got open.  It was pretty remarkable, actually.  From actually sitting in the stands, in a very good seat, seeing the whole field, the obvious problem was the receivers.  Not the QB.   And then, of course, when they did get open, they dropped the ball.  But the main problem was that they weren't open.  That's what I saw, from sitting in the stands, and seeing the whole field.  

So, did you actually go to the games, or did you just watch them on TV?

The point of that video were to show a few of his bad throws in one game. This kind of thing you could very easily go back and find in any number of his college starts and most definitely in just about every game last year as a jaguar. The fact that your only argument is to assume my opinions are based off this video, which I never watched before I linked it to you is troublesome. I watched every single passing attempt Trevor made in college online, theres a neat website that takes a college prospects film for each game, and shows all of their plays for each one. I watched all of these over the few weeks after we became the owners of the first pick before we selected him. That is where my opinion comes from. Feel free to go check it out.

---

Yeah I don’t get it. I’m rooting for our guy. Does that mean I think he played perfectly? No, and I would bet he would tell you the same. At the same time, I’m not going to take a glass half empty approach. It’s hard enough being a jags fan as an optimist!

Same, but everyone thinks I hate him or something. I really like Trevor, he was the only option for us at #1 he more than likely will be the best QB from that class. My entire problem with him was the absurd hype surrounding him. It almost felt like someone called him a "generational talent" after watching his win vs Alabama, and every other sports news analyst decided to just say the same thing without watching any of his play. 

Outside of maybe physical talent, The guy was no where near as polished as someone like Andrew Luck coming out and the fact that people were claiming him to be just that made my head hurt. Luck was a guy who very obviously had a very high floor and potential to be an all time great. Trevor in my personal opinion has an average floor with the tools to be amazing. It just depends if he's able to develop them and fix his current issues.

Anyone claiming he was good last year, or that he is 100% destined to be great have lips wrapped around a straw in a glass of teal kool-aid

---

So you're basing your point on Trevor having an unspectacular game when his team was badly outmatched and he had a shoulder injury?

"Unspectacular" in this case, being 33-48-400 2 TDs-1 INT leading the team to 28 points in only the 2nd loss of his 3 year college career.

Just so we're clear.

BTW, that video was far from persuasive.  Apparently some people don't understand the concept of the  back shoulder fade, or the idea that short passes could possibly be a part of a game plan, the idea WRs are largely responsible for separating from coverage.

The short passes weren't really the point that I linked the video but it did illustrate that you probably watched 2 plays and clicked off because had you watched the third play where he over threw a pass to the flat you might have started to get the point.. and there were more to come. On top of that, yes his numbers did look good didn't they.. unfortunately college numbers mean just about nothing, if they did Derek Carr would be a top 3 QB after his last year in college throwing for 50 tds 8 ints and 5,000 yards.

---

"in college"

---

Are we using Clemson cut-ups to defend bad takes on Lawrence's rookie season now? 

Wh--Why?

I was pointing out that he was making similar mistakes in college, that he did last season. While having top tier college WRs and Olinemen. Since everyone wants to blame his performance on the players around him, and not the fact that he missed 5 yard passes consistently.

But I guess we react before reading.

---

Go get AJ Brown..

---

Go get AJ Brown..

Would love that, but they wouldnt trade him to us i'd imagine.

---

I was at all the home games last year, and what I saw was that it was very seldom that our receivers got open.  It was pretty remarkable, actually.  From actually sitting in the stands, in a very good seat, seeing the whole field, the obvious problem was the receivers.  Not the QB.   And then, of course, when they did get open, they dropped the ball.  But the main problem was that they weren't open.  That's what I saw, from sitting in the stands, and seeing the whole field.  

So, did you actually go to the games, or did you just watch them on TV?

The point of that video were to show a few of his bad throws in one game. This kind of thing you could very easily go back and find in any number of his college starts and most definitely in just about every game last year as a jaguar. The fact that your only argument is to assume my opinions are based off this video, which I never watched before I linked it to you is troublesome. I watched every single passing attempt Trevor made in college online, theres a neat website that takes a college prospects film for each game, and shows all of their plays for each one. I watched all of these over the few weeks after we became the owners of the first pick before we selected him. That is where my opinion comes from. Feel free to go check it out.

---

Yeah I don’t get it. I’m rooting for our guy. Does that mean I think he played perfectly? No, and I would bet he would tell you the same. At the same time, I’m not going to take a glass half empty approach. It’s hard enough being a jags fan as an optimist!

Same, but everyone thinks I hate him or something. I really like Trevor, he was the only option for us at #1 he more than likely will be the best QB from that class. My entire problem with him was the absurd hype surrounding him. It almost felt like someone called him a "generational talent" after watching his win vs Alabama, and every other sports news analyst decided to just say the same thing without watching any of his play. 

Outside of maybe physical talent, The guy was no where near as polished as someone like Andrew Luck coming out and the fact that people were claiming him to be just that made my head hurt. Luck was a guy who very obviously had a very high floor and potential to be an all time great. Trevor in my personal opinion has an average floor with the tools to be amazing. It just depends if he's able to develop them and fix his current issues.

Anyone claiming he was good last year, or that he is 100% destined to be great have lips wrapped around a straw in a glass of teal kool-aid

I haven't seen the first person say either of these lol

---

I was at all the home games last year, and what I saw was that it was very seldom that our receivers got open.  It was pretty remarkable, actually.  From actually sitting in the stands, in a very good seat, seeing the whole field, the obvious problem was the receivers.  Not the QB.   And then, of course, when they did get open, they dropped the ball.  But the main problem was that they weren't open.  That's what I saw, from sitting in the stands, and seeing the whole field.  

So, did you actually go to the games, or did you just watch them on TV?

The point of that video were to show a few of his bad throws in one game. This kind of thing you could very easily go back and find in any number of his college starts and most definitely in just about every game last year as a jaguar. The fact that your only argument is to assume my opinions are based off this video, which I never watched before I linked it to you is troublesome. I watched every single passing attempt Trevor made in college online, theres a neat website that takes a college prospects film for each game, and shows all of their plays for each one. I watched all of these over the few weeks after we became the owners of the first pick before we selected him. That is where my opinion comes from. Feel free to go check it out.

---

Yeah I don’t get it. I’m rooting for our guy. Does that mean I think he played perfectly? No, and I would bet he would tell you the same. At the same time, I’m not going to take a glass half empty approach. It’s hard enough being a jags fan as an optimist!

Same, but everyone thinks I hate him or something. I really like Trevor, he was the only option for us at #1 he more than likely will be the best QB from that class. My entire problem with him was the absurd hype surrounding him. It almost felt like someone called him a "generational talent" after watching his win vs Alabama, and every other sports news analyst decided to just say the same thing without watching any of his play. 

Outside of maybe physical talent, The guy was no where near as polished as someone like Andrew Luck coming out and the fact that people were claiming him to be just that made my head hurt. Luck was a guy who very obviously had a very high floor and potential to be an all time great. Trevor in my personal opinion has an average floor with the tools to be amazing. It just depends if he's able to develop them and fix his current issues.

Anyone claiming he was good last year, or that he is 100% destined to be great have lips wrapped around a straw in a glass of teal kool-aid

Please find the post of anyone claiming he was good or that he is destined for greatness.

Most are optimistic but at the same time, realistic with how Trevor played.

Oh. And nice job finding clips of Trevor making bad throws…. As if every QB that’s ever played doesn’t have the same bad throws. Then add in he’s a rookie.

Come on man. You’re turning yourself into a joke.

---

"Unspectacular" in this case, being 33-48-400 2 TDs-1 INT leading the team to 28 points in only the 2nd loss of his 3 year college career.

Just so we're clear.

BTW, that video was far from persuasive.  Apparently some people don't understand the concept of the  back shoulder fade, or the idea that short passes could possibly be a part of a game plan, the idea WRs are largely responsible for separating from coverage.

The short passes weren't really the point that I linked the video but it did illustrate that you probably watched 2 plays and clicked off because had you watched the third play where he over threw a pass to the flat you might have started to get the point.. and there were more to come. On top of that, yes his numbers did look good didn't they.. unfortunately college numbers mean just about nothing, if they did Derek Carr would be a top 3 QB after his last year in college throwing for 50 tds 8 ints and 5,000 yards.

---

"in college"

---

Are we using Clemson cut-ups to defend bad takes on Lawrence's rookie season now? 

Wh--Why?

I was pointing out that he was making similar mistakes in college, that he did last season. While having top tier college WRs and Olinemen. Since everyone wants to blame his performance on the players around him, and not the fact that he missed 5 yard passes consistently.

But I guess we react before reading.

Name all the QB prospects since Luck that you think we're better than Lawrence as a prospect?

---

The short passes weren't really the point that I linked the video but it did illustrate that you probably watched 2 plays and clicked off because had you watched the third play where he over threw a pass to the flat you might have started to get the point.. and there were more to come. On top of that, yes his numbers did look good didn't they.. unfortunately college numbers mean just about nothing, if they did Derek Carr would be a top 3 QB after his last year in college throwing for 50 tds 8 ints and 5,000 yards.

---

I was pointing out that he was making similar mistakes in college, that he did last season. While having top tier college WRs and Olinemen. Since everyone wants to blame his performance on the players around him, and not the fact that he missed 5 yard passes consistently.

But I guess we react before reading.

Name all the QB prospects since Luck that you think we're better than Lawrence as a prospect?

You could argue none were, if you were going soley on potential in terms of what he could do based on his physical talents. However if we're basing it on their actual play in college and not just measurables theres a long list of guys you could put ahead of him as a prospect in terms of being NFL ready or having a "higher floor" as someone might say.

Coming out of their respective drafts tho, had I had the option at that time of taking Trevor or these guys, i likely would have taken the others.
Herbert
Burrow
Josh Allen
Mahomes
Watson
Bridgewater 
Carr


Admitedly, Bridgewater would have been a big mistake. As of right now the only one of those outside of Teddy I wouldn't swap him for is Carr.. but that opinion will quickly change if Trevor is even half as bad as he was in 2021.

---

Name all the QB prospects since Luck that you think we're better than Lawrence as a prospect?

You could argue none were, if you were going soley on potential in terms of what he could do based on his physical talents. However if we're basing it on their actual play in college and not just measurables theres a long list of guys you could put ahead of him as a prospect in terms of being NFL ready or having a "higher floor" as someone might say.

Coming out of their respective drafts tho, had I had the option at that time of taking Trevor or these guys, i likely would have taken the others.
Herbert
Burrow
Josh Allen
Mahomes
Watson
Bridgewater 
Carr


Admitedly, Bridgewater would have been a big mistake. As of right now the only one of those outside of Teddy I wouldn't swap him for is Carr.. but that opinion will quickly change if Trevor is even half as bad as he was in 2021.

Now you're just flat out lying. Step away for a while.

---

You could argue none were, if you were going soley on potential in terms of what he could do based on his physical talents. However if we're basing it on their actual play in college and not just measurables theres a long list of guys you could put ahead of him as a prospect in terms of being NFL ready or having a "higher floor" as someone might say.

Coming out of their respective drafts tho, had I had the option at that time of taking Trevor or these guys, i likely would have taken the others.
Herbert
Burrow
Josh Allen
Mahomes
Watson
Bridgewater 
Carr


Admitedly, Bridgewater would have been a big mistake. As of right now the only one of those outside of Teddy I wouldn't swap him for is Carr.. but that opinion will quickly change if Trevor is even half as bad as he was in 2021.

Now you're just flat out lying. Step away for a while.

Agreed. The only QB prospect since Luck that I thought was better than Lawrence coming out of college was Joe Burrow. Lawrence may reach his potential if we actually help him out and get him some real receivers. How can anyone judge the guy based on the overpriced, underperforming receivers he has to throw to?

---

You could argue none were, if you were going soley on potential in terms of what he could do based on his physical talents. However if we're basing it on their actual play in college and not just measurables theres a long list of guys you could put ahead of him as a prospect in terms of being NFL ready or having a "higher floor" as someone might say.

Coming out of their respective drafts tho, had I had the option at that time of taking Trevor or these guys, i likely would have taken the others.
Herbert
Burrow
Josh Allen
Mahomes
Watson
Bridgewater 
Carr


Admitedly, Bridgewater would have been a big mistake. As of right now the only one of those outside of Teddy I wouldn't swap him for is Carr.. but that opinion will quickly change if Trevor is even half as bad as he was in 2021.

Now you're just flat out lying. Step away for a while.

Go through my post history, I was flamed in 2017 for saying Mahomes was the best QB by a bunch of you trying to tell me trubiski was the safe bet. And you will also find posts of me being extremely skeptical on Lawrence.

Try harder tho.

---

I was at all the home games last year, and what I saw was that it was very seldom that our receivers got open.  It was pretty remarkable, actually.  From actually sitting in the stands, in a very good seat, seeing the whole field, the obvious problem was the receivers.  Not the QB.   And then, of course, when they did get open, they dropped the ball.  But the main problem was that they weren't open.  That's what I saw, from sitting in the stands, and seeing the whole field.  

So, did you actually go to the games, or did you just watch them on TV?

The point of that video were to show a few of his bad throws in one game. This kind of thing you could very easily go back and find in any number of his college starts and most definitely in just about every game last year as a jaguar. The fact that your only argument is to assume my opinions are based off this video, which I never watched before I linked it to you is troublesome. I watched every single passing attempt Trevor made in college online, theres a neat website that takes a college prospects film for each game, and shows all of their plays for each one. I watched all of these over the few weeks after we became the owners of the first pick before we selected him. That is where my opinion comes from. Feel free to go check it out.

---

Yeah I don’t get it. I’m rooting for our guy. Does that mean I think he played perfectly? No, and I would bet he would tell you the same. At the same time, I’m not going to take a glass half empty approach. It’s hard enough being a jags fan as an optimist!

Same, but everyone thinks I hate him or something. I really like Trevor, he was the only option for us at #1 he more than likely will be the best QB from that class. My entire problem with him was the absurd hype surrounding him. It almost felt like someone called him a "generational talent" after watching his win vs Alabama, and every other sports news analyst decided to just say the same thing without watching any of his play. 

Outside of maybe physical talent, The guy was no where near as polished as someone like Andrew Luck coming out and the fact that people were claiming him to be just that made my head hurt. Luck was a guy who very obviously had a very high floor and potential to be an all time great. Trevor in my personal opinion has an average floor with the tools to be amazing. It just depends if he's able to develop them and fix his current issues.

Anyone claiming he was good last year, or that he is 100% destined to be great have lips wrapped around a straw in a glass of teal kool-aid

(emphasis added)

Very few things in football are 100% guaranteed.  Anyone claiming even tacitly or expressly after one year that he is 100% destined to be a bust is not to be taken seriously as a football fan.

Short pop Quiz

1.  There was once a rookie QB that threw more INTs than TDs, threw 28 INTs (worst in the league in that category), and finished 3-13 as a rookie starter. 

Bust?


2.  There was another QB that was winless as a rookie (0-11), completed 52.9% of his passes, and threw twice as many INTs (18) as TDs (9)


Bust?

3.  There was still another rookie QB that got no playing time as a rookie, and partied so much he was traded away after one season. After three seasons, he still threw more INTs (39) than TDs (37).

Bust?

4.  Yet another rookie QB competed only 52.8 % of his passes and had more INTs )12) than TDs (10).

Bust?


Answer Key:

1.  Not a bust.  That QB was Peyton Manning.

2.  Not a bust.  That QB was Troy Aikman.

3.  Not a bust.  That QB was Brett Favre.

4.  Not a bust.  That QB was Buffalo's Josh Allen.

Keep in mind Tevor Lawrence had numbers last year comparable or superior to all of the others in most categories.

TL had as many wins his rookie year than Peyton Manning and threw fewer INTs.  Manning had the benefit of a stud WR already on the roster in Marvin Harrison, and a stud RB in Marshall Faulk, and a stud LT in Tarik Glenn.

TL had three more wins had a higher completion percentage, threw more TDs and fewer INTs than Troy Aikman.

TL was better in all categories his first year than Brett Favre.

TL had a higher completion percentage and threw more TDs than Josh Allen.

Were you  truly as passionate and knowledgeable a fan as you purport, you'd know not to thump your chest over a QBs rookie year struggles, and you'd know that QBs develop over time.  Let it play out.

Source:  profootballreference.com

Thus endeth the lesson.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Now you're just flat out lying. Step away for a while.

Go through my post history, I was flamed in 2017 for saying Mahomes was the best QB by a bunch of you trying to tell me trubiski was the safe bet. And you will also find posts of me being extremely skeptical on Lawrence.

Try harder tho.

Couldn't care less to go through your post history but anyone claiming that they had Mahomes and Allen as better prospects than Lawrence is lying. You're only saying that now that the evidence is out there with them being superstars in the league.

---

The point of that video were to show a few of his bad throws in one game. This kind of thing you could very easily go back and find in any number of his college starts and most definitely in just about every game last year as a jaguar. The fact that your only argument is to assume my opinions are based off this video, which I never watched before I linked it to you is troublesome. I watched every single passing attempt Trevor made in college online, theres a neat website that takes a college prospects film for each game, and shows all of their plays for each one. I watched all of these over the few weeks after we became the owners of the first pick before we selected him. That is where my opinion comes from. Feel free to go check it out.

---

Same, but everyone thinks I hate him or something. I really like Trevor, he was the only option for us at #1 he more than likely will be the best QB from that class. My entire problem with him was the absurd hype surrounding him. It almost felt like someone called him a "generational talent" after watching his win vs Alabama, and every other sports news analyst decided to just say the same thing without watching any of his play. 

Outside of maybe physical talent, The guy was no where near as polished as someone like Andrew Luck coming out and the fact that people were claiming him to be just that made my head hurt. Luck was a guy who very obviously had a very high floor and potential to be an all time great. Trevor in my personal opinion has an average floor with the tools to be amazing. It just depends if he's able to develop them and fix his current issues.

Anyone claiming he was good last year, or that he is 100% destined to be great have lips wrapped around a straw in a glass of teal kool-aid

(emphasis added)

Very few things in football are 100% guaranteed.  Anyone claiming even tacitly or expressly after one year that he is 100% destined to be a bust is not to be taken seriously as a football fan.

Short pop Quiz

1.  There was once a rookie QB that threw more INTs than TDs, threw 28 INTs (worst in the league in that category), and finished 3-13 as a rookie starter. 

Bust?


2.  There was another QB that was winless as a rookie (0-11), completed 52.9% of his passes, and threw twice as many INTs (18) as TDs (9)


Bust?

3.  There was still another rookie QB that got no playing time as a rookie, and partied so much he was traded away after one season. After three seasons, he still threw more INTs (39) than TDs (37).

Bust?

4.  Yet another rookie QB competed only 52.8 % of his passes and had more INTs )12) than TDs (10).

Bust?


Answer Key:

1.  Not a bust.  That QB was Peyton Manning.

2.  Not a bust.  That QB was Troy Aikman.

3.  Not a bust.  That QB was Brett Favre.

4.  Not a bust.  That QB was Buffalo's Josh Allen.

Keep in mind Tevor Lawrence had numbers last year comparable or superior to all of the others in most categories.

TL had as many wins his rookie year than Peyton Manning and threw fewer INTs.  Manning had the benefit of a stud WR already on the roster in Marvin Harrison, and a stud RB in Marshall Faulk, and a stud LT in Tarik Glenn.

TL had three more wins had a higher completion percentage, threw more TDs and fewer INTs than Troy Aikman.

TL was better in all categories his first year than Brett Favre.

TL had a higher completion percentage and threw more TDs than Josh Allen.

Were you  truly as passionate and knowledgeable a fan as you purport, you'd know not to thump your chest over a QBs rookie year struggles, and you'd know that QBs develop over time.  Let it play out.

Source:  profootballreference.com

Thus endeth the lesson.

Short pop Quiz

1.  There was once a rookie QB that threw more INTs than TDs, threw 28 INTs (worst in the league in that category), and finished 3-13 as a rookie starter. 

Bust? I never called Trevor a bust. 2. That QB also has 26 Tds along with the 28 INTS and had flashes of brilliance, Trevor didn't. 


2.  There was another QB that was winless as a rookie (0-11), completed 52.9% of his passes, and threw twice as many INTs (18) as TDs (9)


Bust? Not a bust, but also a product of playing on one of the most stacked offenses in the history of the NFL, and was not deemed one of the best cant miss prospects in decades when drafted. 

3.  There was still another rookie QB that got no playing time as a rookie, and partied so much he was traded away after one season. After three seasons, he still threw more INTs (39) than TDs (37). Technically he was a bust for the team that took him. Again I still have yet to ever even consider Trevor a bust, so this dosen't make any sense? 

Bust?

4.  Yet another rookie QB competed only 52.8 % of his passes and had more INTs )12) than TDs (10).

Bust? Refer to answer #3


And again, i'm not calling him a bust and am also not judging him specifically for his "rookie struggles". My argument towards Trevor from prior to him being on our team has been his flaws, and the medias fantasy that he has none.

---

Go through my post history, I was flamed in 2017 for saying Mahomes was the best QB by a bunch of you trying to tell me trubiski was the safe bet. And you will also find posts of me being extremely skeptical on Lawrence.

Try harder tho.

Couldn't care less to go through your post history but anyone claiming that they had Mahomes and Allen as better prospects than Lawrence is lying. You're only saying that now that the evidence is out there with them being superstars in the league.

So, you know very well that I have been highly skeptical of Lawrence and said he was no generational talent since prior to us having the #1 pick yet you think I have him rated lower than guys I wanted? 

Right.. that makes sense. I mean I did have an entire thread discussing how i'd gladly trade the #1 pick for Deshaun Watson before we took Trevor, and also before the allegations came out on Watson.

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(emphasis added)

Very few things in football are 100% guaranteed.  Anyone claiming even tacitly or expressly after one year that he is 100% destined to be a bust is not to be taken seriously as a football fan.

Short pop Quiz

1.  There was once a rookie QB that threw more INTs than TDs, threw 28 INTs (worst in the league in that category), and finished 3-13 as a rookie starter. 

Bust?


2.  There was another QB that was winless as a rookie (0-11), completed 52.9% of his passes, and threw twice as many INTs (18) as TDs (9)


Bust?

3.  There was still another rookie QB that got no playing time as a rookie, and partied so much he was traded away after one season. After three seasons, he still threw more INTs (39) than TDs (37).

Bust?

4.  Yet another rookie QB competed only 52.8 % of his passes and had more INTs )12) than TDs (10).

Bust?


Answer Key:

1.  Not a bust.  That QB was Peyton Manning.

2.  Not a bust.  That QB was Troy Aikman.

3.  Not a bust.  That QB was Brett Favre.

4.  Not a bust.  That QB was Buffalo's Josh Allen.

Keep in mind Tevor Lawrence had numbers last year comparable or superior to all of the others in most categories.

TL had as many wins his rookie year than Peyton Manning and threw fewer INTs.  Manning had the benefit of a stud WR already on the roster in Marvin Harrison, and a stud RB in Marshall Faulk, and a stud LT in Tarik Glenn.

TL had three more wins had a higher completion percentage, threw more TDs and fewer INTs than Troy Aikman.

TL was better in all categories his first year than Brett Favre.

TL had a higher completion percentage and threw more TDs than Josh Allen.

Were you  truly as passionate and knowledgeable a fan as you purport, you'd know not to thump your chest over a QBs rookie year struggles, and you'd know that QBs develop over time.  Let it play out.

Source:  profootballreference.com

Thus endeth the lesson.

Short pop Quiz

1.  There was once a rookie QB that threw more INTs than TDs, threw 28 INTs (worst in the league in that category), and finished 3-13 as a rookie starter. 

Bust? I never called Trevor a bust. 2. That QB also has 26 Tds along with the 28 INTS and had flashes of brilliance, Trevor didn't. 


2.  There was another QB that was winless as a rookie (0-11), completed 52.9% of his passes, and threw twice as many INTs (18) as TDs (9)


Bust? Not a bust, but also a product of playing on one of the most stacked offenses in the history of the NFL, and was not deemed one of the best cant miss prospects in decades when drafted. 

3.  There was still another rookie QB that got no playing time as a rookie, and partied so much he was traded away after one season. After three seasons, he still threw more INTs (39) than TDs (37). Technically he was a bust for the team that took him. Again I still have yet to ever even consider Trevor a bust, so this dosen't make any sense? 

Bust?

4.  Yet another rookie QB competed only 52.8 % of his passes and had more INTs )12) than TDs (10).

Bust? Refer to answer #3


And again, i'm not calling him a bust and am also not judging him specifically for his "rookie struggles". My argument towards Trevor from prior to him being on our team has been his flaws, and the medias fantasy that he has none.

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1.  If you don't think on any level Trevor Lawrence will be a bust, why are you thumping your chest over his rookie struggles?  That makes zero sense.  Historically, rookie QBs struggle, especially when drafted by awful teams. Even assuming you predicted he would struggle as a rookie, it doesn't take a whole lot of insight to conclude that given the circumstances.  As for Manningm in the other thread, according to you, league leading INTs trumped every other consideration.  "It makes you bottom of the barrel."  There was no credit for "flashes of brilliance." even though with the Bucs, Winston actually threw MORE TDs than the league leading 30 INTs he threw,  Which is it?

2.  Aikman wasn't touted as one of the best QB prospects in a decade?!?  Are you kidding me?!? I've been following the draft since 1983.  I've got every draft dating back to 1990 on video.  Only Elway and Kelly were more highly regarded ny him as rookie prospects in that decade.  To this day, Kiper states Aikman was one of the most highly regarded QB prospects he ever saw.   https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3092...kes-top-10 Try spreading that propaganda to someone who wasn't around during that time. 

Furthermore, of COURSE QBs can benefit from having superior talent around them.  I don't know what your issue is with your situational ethics regarding players and coaches with talent around them.  If QBs benefit from having superior talent around them, doesn't it stand to reason they can be harmed by the lack of talent around them?!?  How does this apply to Lawrence?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!