A couple of weeks ago, I posted that I would not take a CB at #1 because of positional value.  I'm still generally biased in that direction.  But Sauce probably is the best player in this draft.  As such, I couldn't hate it if he were the pick.  I'd have to be happy that we got a very good player, even though I prefer someone else.

But cornerback is top tier positional value...

I disagree. QB, LT, Edge, and WR are all more important than CB, imo.  That isn’t to say that having good cornerbacks is not important. But for sure I will draft a quarterback, tackle, edge before I would consider a cornerback. And given the importance of wide receivers in today’s game, I would probably draft a very good wide receiver before a very good cornerback. But those preferences have to take into account the talent level of the player you’re looking at. I think Gardner is probably the most talented player in this draft.

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Fix the O-Line!

These next 5 or so days seem like waiting for Christmas. I hope the jags trade back up into the first round if there is a player who can start for us. This team needs high impact starters.

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Bullseye, your OP is, as always it seems, fantastic. You do these things routinely yet they are anything BUT routine. Yoda gave some great takes in his post and I agree with just aout everyone of them.

As far as the draft itself, it usually marks the end of us winning the offseason LOL. Post draft though we do indeed hit the doldrums but at least we get the NBA playoffs through May and then the US Open in golf in June and the British Open in July to tide me over till the HOF Game in Aug.

Who actually trusts Baalke? Not me, Plus he is bringing in an old crony as Asst GM after the draft so it looks like we are stuck with him for some time to come. Ah well, the drama that is the Jags FO will continue. 

Still, exciting times ahead.

Thanks a lot.  Often times, like here, I just ask questions.  I like hearing what people think.  I like knowing if I'm the only one thinking the things I am thinking.  My thoughts were beginning to drive me crazy going back and forth between premature excitement and premature resignation...between optimism and pessimism.  I can't recall feeling quite like this pre draft before.

The NBA playoffs used to do it for me, but over the years, I lost interest in Basketball for some reason.  I hate golf, and if it's on my television, I am napping hard.

I have limited Baalke trust.  I feel I can trust him some to draft front 7 defenders, and to a lesser extent quality offensive linemen.  I do NOT trust him wo find a quality WR.  Kirk is a good slot guy, provided they find someone outside.  I don't think he can carry a WR corps, if that makes any sense.  But even in the limited extent I DO trust him, It
s still not a complete trust even in those areas.  I don't want Walker, and I still am not sure if Baalke will pass on him.  To me, Walker shouldn't even be in the discussion of best player in the draft.

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Not really. I was never really a big opening night fan. Especially given this team's history and luck in RD1.

I honestly enjoy watching it online and seeing live grades starting on day 2 and then the rest of the weekend as that's where teams usually land eventual household names or starters.

If the Jaguars pull off a [BLEEP] trade down though? I would be interested and glued to the TV.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Is there a place online you watch?

I remember someone posting a place online with live reactions and analysis of the draft, but I'll be damned if I remember what it was.  Chatsports, maybe?

No. Not really. I have a 7 day work week up coming up so I'll pretty much be confined to my office space during the work week and then my little office room at home over next weekend during the draft. I have Hulu so I can stream anywhere really with a laptop or link it up to a TV nearby via HDMI and watch it that way. 

I'll bounce back and forth between ESPN and NFLNetwork and live grading wise I tend to pop in on drafttek.com and walterfootball.com.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

These next 5 or so days seem like waiting for Christmas. I hope the jags trade back up into the first round if there is a player who can start for us. This team needs high impact starters.

They have the picks at their disposal to wheel and deal for sure. Just depends on who that player is and how much it's going to cost you. Picks 65 & 70 coupled with all those three or four picks in RD6 should offer some kind of interest to a team that's maybe top heavy salary cap wise and looking to add inexpensive depth to fill in the backend of their rosters this year. 

Realistically they could probably use both of their third round picks and a future pick to convince a team to fork over a late RD1 selection on the opening night if they feel they have a WR or offensive lineman that immediately has a starting role and high impact ability on the roster. 

The problem is that the WR position seems to be of high interest to a lot of teams this year because of all of the trades that were made recently and the draft just so happens to perfectly fall into line with value being there at that exact time on the opening night of the draft. 

I think I said it in another thread or two already. But, as much as everybody is clamoring for another WR? They might not get another WR until RD3. I think defense will be the first overall pick, whether it's Hutchinson, Walker or Gardner. I also think pick 33 in RD2 is going to be one of those "huh?" moments like it was last year when they selected Tyson Campbell at CB. 

Don't be surprised if there's an obvious player there that you think is a perfect fit on offense and they end up going defense yet again to fill in a role within the LB group or even on the backend of the secondary at Safety. 

RD3 is where I think they go offense. I could see it being a TE/WR or WR/G/T type of combination depending on who is there at 65 and the four teams you have to worry about jumping your next choice before you get back on the clock at 70.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

As long as they pick a guy who belongs in the first five picks, it's okay.  There's just not that much difference at the top this year.

Dude, you’re nuts!! Hutch is the real deal; Baalke better not screw this up..

The real deal.  Kind of like Foles?

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are you excited yet?  no,but interrested to see who jags pick.

Why or why not?  I feel like they will take some no name plyer like usaal,only reason they took Trevor last year is cause they knw if they didn't they would be even more of a laughing stock then they already are.

Are you excited becuse, like a kid approaching Christmas, it's customary, almost instinctive for you to be excited this time of year? not really just curious.

Are you excited to see how Pederson will build the team? no not excited,and not expecting big things from him,but hope he proves me wrong,and turns jags culture around

Are you excited to see the new Jaguars? no to many loseing seasons over th years,and loseing records,but i am excited that i  will get to go watch games with my dad at sports bar.

Are you simply excited for the last big booster shot of football talk until a long dry spell without football talk? Just excited i wil lget to spend time with dad watching football,and enjoying good food.

If you are less excited than usual, why?  to much loseing,to much drama by to many players over the years,and to much dissapoiment

Is Baalke's continued presence dampening your enthusiasm? Between that,and all the loseing over the last serveal years. Jags haven't had back to back winning seasons in foreever.

Have the Jaguars' long history of draft day ineptitude finally worn you down?  yes ,and the lack of smarts of going after top free agents. 

Is the lack of a dominant franchise caliber guy at the top of the draft getting you down, because either the Jaguars can't add them to their own roster, or can't command a huge package of picks in a trade back from #1 overall?  yes

To be honest, I've experienced all of these things at various points this week.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

But cornerback is top tier positional value...

I disagree. QB, LT, Edge, and WR are all more important than CB, imo.  That isn’t to say that having good cornerbacks is not important. But for sure I will draft a quarterback, tackle, edge before I would consider a cornerback. And given the importance of wide receivers in today’s game, I would probably draft a very good wide receiver before a very good cornerback. But those preferences have to take into account the talent level of the player you’re looking at. I think Gardner is probably the most talented player in this draft.

Right, I think CB is in that tier with them. PFF has actually been putting out data for years that pass protection is more important than pass rush.

I also think CB is more important than LT once you get past the good enough threshold. If you're starting from scratch it's more important to get an adequate LT than CB, but once you have an adequate LT a top CB is more important than a top LT. For example, prime Revis is unfortunately winning a team a lot more games than prime Boselli.

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I disagree. QB, LT, Edge, and WR are all more important than CB, imo.  That isn’t to say that having good cornerbacks is not important. But for sure I will draft a quarterback, tackle, edge before I would consider a cornerback. And given the importance of wide receivers in today’s game, I would probably draft a very good wide receiver before a very good cornerback. But those preferences have to take into account the talent  level of the player you’re looking at. I think Gardner is probably the most talented player in this draft.

Right, I think CB is in that tier with them. PFF has actually been putting out data for years that pass protection is more important than pass rush.

I also think CB is more important than LT once you get past the good enough threshold. If you're starting from scratch it's more important to get an adequate LT than CB, but once you have an adequate LT a top CB is more important than a top LT. For example, prime Revis is unfortunately winning a team a lot more games than prime Boselli.

Not if you have that QB which we do.  If I could pick right now and get one in their prime give me Boselli

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Right, I think CB is in that tier with them. PFF has actually been putting out data for years that pass protection is more important than pass rush.

I also think CB is more important than LT once you get past the good enough threshold. If you're starting from scratch it's more important to get an adequate LT than CB, but once you have an adequate LT a top CB is more important than a top LT. For example, prime Revis is unfortunately winning a team a lot more games than prime Boselli.

Not if you have that QB which we do.  If I could pick right now and get one in their prime give me Boselli

You saying you'd rather have the LT makes me feel even better about saying an elite corner would win more games.

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I don't expect them to take Gardner even though he probably is the best player this year. They've addressed the cornerbacks room in FA. That position group is one of our relative strenghths now,. Of course it doesnt really mean it's good by league standards.

I hope it's Hutch but I'll survive a few other candidates too. I still don't think it's unrealistic they'll take a tackle at 1.

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No, a CB has never gone #1 overall, but had NFL teams known how those guys had turned out, I bet they would have, if given a do-over. Personally, I have compared Gardner to Revis on several occasions. I think "Sauce" is in the same discussion with all those CB's you mentioned. 

As far as Hutchinson, it's not so much of how much better he is than say, Thibodeaux or Johnson, it's just that I feel his floor is so much higher than those guys and he is a perfect scheme fit, unlike Walker who would have to learn a whole new position, if drafted to be a 3-4 OLB. I think Hutchinson is a very good player, maybe not elite, but I think he's a very safe pick. I don't see any bust factor with him. I think his floor is more of a Ryan Kerrigan type career. That's why I believe if we go edge rusher, he has to be the pick. This team cannot have another first round bust. It just seems like that happens to us time after time. 

They were very decisive last season as far as the #1 overall pick, because just about EVERYONE had Lawrence as the top pick. That one was a no-brainer. As far as Etienne, that was probably a whole different story that we may never be privy to. If rumors are true that the head coach wants one guy, the GM wants another and the rest of the coaching staff wants another guy, that is clearly dysfunction. These guys need to get on the same page. 

I agree, but if they truly have that many guys they are still choosing from, it makes me less sure that they will make the right choice.

As long as they pick a guy who belongs in the first five picks, it's okay.  There's just not that much difference at the top this year.

When I consider need, value and positional value, I find Hutchinson to be the clear and easy choice.  I just pulled up 10 rankings of the top draft prospects this year and 9 out of 10 had Hutchinson as having the best value with the lone exception having him ranked second best.  Edge is a huge need for the Jaguars who must get a better pass rush.  I also consider edge to have the highest positional value on defense.  He's even a good scheme fit.  In my mind, I can't make a good case for anyone else:

Ahmad Gardner - Some like his value, but this is as about as far away from a need as possible.  I would consider quarterback the only position with less need for a starter.  We have 3 good starting cornerbacks.  One was a rookie last year.  The others signed either this year or last year as free agents, so it's not as if their contracts are about to expire.  If I have a choice, I like to get both value and need.  I also consider cornerback to have less positional value than edge.

Jameson Williams - Wide receiver is a need, but he doesn't have the value to be taken #1 overall.

Kyle Hamilton - Safety lacks the positional value to be taken #1 overall.  You can find good safeties later in the draft.

Evan Neal or Ikem Ekwonu - As stated earlier, the consensus is that Hutchinson has better value.  As far as need, if there isn't an elite left tackle prospect, and there isn't, I'd prefer to give it a year and see if Walker Little can be our left tackle of the future.  We also already have Cam as a stop gap.  I also hear some saying that Neal or Ekwonu might make better right tackles or guards.  If so, the positional value isn't there.  I don't draft a right tackle or guard at #1 overall.  They can be found later in the draft.

Travon Walker - After the season ended, most mock drafts had him in the middle of round one with some in late round one or even the second round.  His so called "stock" rose because of the combine.  While I think you should consider everything, moving to the top spot because of the underwear Olympics is a bit much for me.  I'm skeptical of the workout warrior.  He may have good upside but feels very risky to me.

Kayvon Thibodeaux - He plays edge, so it is a need and has positional value.  He also has very good upside.  However, he comes across as a diva to me.  He's accused of taking plays off.  He just feels much riskier than the very safe Hutchinson that I would have a hard time ranking him ahead of Hutchinson.

Assuming no trade down, Hutchinson is the easy pick for me.

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As long as they pick a guy who belongs in the first five picks, it's okay.  There's just not that much difference at the top this year.

When I consider need, value and positional value, I find Hutchinson to be the clear and easy choice.  I just pulled up 10 rankings of the top draft prospects this year and 9 out of 10 had Hutchinson as having the best value with the lone exception having him ranked second best.  Edge is a huge need for the Jaguars who must get a better pass rush.  I also consider edge to have the highest positional value on defense.  He's even a good scheme fit.  In my mind, I can't make a good case for anyone else:

Ahmad Gardner - Some like his value, but this is as about as far away from a need as possible.  I would consider quarterback the only position with less need for a starter.  We have 3 good starting cornerbacks.  One was a rookie last year.  The others signed either this year or last year as free agents, so it's not as if their contracts are about to expire.  If I have a choice, I like to get both value and need.  I also consider cornerback to have less positional value than edge.

Jameson Williams - Wide receiver is a need, but he doesn't have the value to be taken #1 overall.

Kyle Hamilton - Safety lacks the positional value to be taken #1 overall.  You can find good safeties later in the draft.

Evan Neal or Ikem Ekwonu - As stated earlier, the consensus is that Hutchinson has better value.  As far as need, if there isn't an elite left tackle prospect, and there isn't, I'd prefer to give it a year and see if Walker Little can be our left tackle of the future.  We also already have Cam as a stop gap.  I also hear some saying that Neal or Ekwonu might make better right tackles or guards.  If so, the positional value isn't there.  I don't draft a right tackle or guard at #1 overall.  They can be found later in the draft.

Travon Walker - After the season ended, most mock drafts had him in the middle of round one with some in late round one or even the second round.  His so called "stock" rose because of the combine.  While I think you should consider everything, moving to the top spot because of the underwear Olympics is a bit much for me.  I'm skeptical of the workout warrior.  He may have good upside but feels very risky to me.

Kayvon Thibodeaux - He plays edge, so it is a need and has positional value.  He also has very good upside.  However, he comes across as a diva to me.  He's accused of taking plays off.  He just feels much riskier than the very safe Hutchinson that I would have a hard time ranking him ahead of Hutchinson.

Assuming no trade down, Hutchinson is the easy pick for me.

Agree 100%. It’s an easy pick after looking at all the factors. I’m not sure why Balke has to make it seem so hard. Hopefully it’s just smoke and mirrors.

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As long as they pick a guy who belongs in the first five picks, it's okay.  There's just not that much difference at the top this year.

When I consider need, value and positional value, I find Hutchinson to be the clear and easy choice.  I just pulled up 10 rankings of the top draft prospects this year and 9 out of 10 had Hutchinson as having the best value with the lone exception having him ranked second best.  Edge is a huge need for the Jaguars who must get a better pass rush.  I also consider edge to have the highest positional value on defense.  He's even a good scheme fit.  In my mind, I can't make a good case for anyone else:

Ahmad Gardner - Some like his value, but this is as about as far away from a need as possible.  I would consider quarterback the only position with less need for a starter.  We have 3 good starting cornerbacks.  One was a rookie last year.  The others signed either this year or last year as free agents, so it's not as if their contracts are about to expire.  If I have a choice, I like to get both value and need.  I also consider cornerback to have less positional value than edge.

Jameson Williams - Wide receiver is a need, but he doesn't have the value to be taken #1 overall.

Kyle Hamilton - Safety lacks the positional value to be taken #1 overall.  You can find good safeties later in the draft.

Evan Neal or Ikem Ekwonu - As stated earlier, the consensus is that Hutchinson has better value.  As far as need, if there isn't an elite left tackle prospect, and there isn't, I'd prefer to give it a year and see if Walker Little can be our left tackle of the future.  We also already have Cam as a stop gap.  I also hear some saying that Neal or Ekwonu might make better right tackles or guards.  If so, the positional value isn't there.  I don't draft a right tackle or guard at #1 overall.  They can be found later in the draft.

Travon Walker - After the season ended, most mock drafts had him in the middle of round one with some in late round one or even the second round.  His so called "stock" rose because of the combine.  While I think you should consider everything, moving to the top spot because of the underwear Olympics is a bit much for me.  I'm skeptical of the workout warrior.  He may have good upside but feels very risky to me.

Kayvon Thibodeaux - He plays edge, so it is a need and has positional value.  He also has very good upside.  However, he comes across as a diva to me.  He's accused of taking plays off.  He just feels much riskier than the very safe Hutchinson that I would have a hard time ranking him ahead of Hutchinson.

Assuming no trade down, Hutchinson is the easy pick for me.

If there was a safety that was Eric Berry or Sean Taylor to me the positional value is there.  But he has to be one of the best safety projects in recent memory.  I really like Kyle Hamilton but he ran a 4.7 at his Pro day, no way you can take him number one now with the speed in the league right now

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History repeats itself....see link below. Take Evan Neal guys

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=10706

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

History repeats itself....see link below. Take Evan Neal guys

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=10706

1. Hutch
2.Neal

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History repeats itself....see link below. Take Evan Neal guys

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=10706

You said they should take Winston or Mariota hahaha

How’s that “history repeating itself” exactly?

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History repeats itself....see link below. Take Evan Neal guys

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=10706

You said they should take Winston or Mariota hahaha

How’s that “history repeating itself” exactly?

Well,
First off our GM that year was trying to trade down and getting no offers.
Second everyone said is was a weak draft with no good prospects
Third most were all sold on taking Fowler because the value wasn't there for WR or O-line.
 (Mariota and Winston were off the board before our pick)
We didn't go QB because we had Bortles...maybe we don't go o-line this year because we have Cam.

The actual draft went this way
1Tampa Bay Buccaneers  Jameis Winston QB
2 Tennessee Titans Marcus Mariota QB
3 Jacksonville Jaguars Dante Fowler Jr. DE
4 Oakland Raiders Amari Cooper WR
5 Washington Redskins Brandon Scherff OG
6 New York Jets Leonard Williams DT

Kind of funny Scherff now a jag...
All that being said still say we pick the best O-lineman we think can be a fixture here.
We are being sold edge this year again...

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

You said they should take Winston or Mariota hahaha

How’s that “history repeating itself” exactly?

Well,
First off our GM that year was trying to trade down and getting no offers.
Second everyone said is was a weak draft with no good prospects
Third most were all sold on taking Fowler because the value wasn't there for WR or O-line.
 (Mariota and Winston were off the board before our pick)
We didn't go QB because we had Bortles...maybe we don't go o-line this year because we have Cam.

The actual draft went this way
1Tampa Bay Buccaneers  Jameis Winston QB
2 Tennessee Titans Marcus Mariota QB
3 Jacksonville Jaguars Dante Fowler Jr. DE
4 Oakland Raiders Amari Cooper WR
5 Washington Redskins Brandon Scherff OG
6 New York Jets Leonard Williams DT

Kind of funny Scherff now a jag...
All that being said still say we pick the best O-lineman we think can be a fixture here.
We are being sold edge this year again...

But this OT class stinks way worse than that class did.

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Even though he has emphatically stated he is a tackle, Jawaan Taylor has not proven to be an effective one.  I went back and read the combine report on him at nfl.com.  The very weaknesses he had as a prospect are still evident today.  Anxiousness before the snap leading to many penalties.  Does not stay square with the man he's blocking.  Susceptible to inside move because of over-eagerness to move toward the outside on his blocks.  He has not been helped by having one of the worst O-line coaches in the league the last few years.  I wonder if he could be effective at guard?  He is big, strong, and athletic.  Having to block in the phone booth would  cut down on some of his worse habits.

What say ye?

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Fix the O-Line!

History repeats itself....see link below. Take Evan Neal guys

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=10706

I don't understand how this suggests we should take Neal.  You advocated Mariotta who would have been a terrible pick.  Is the lesson learned that we shouldn't trust your judgment?

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