So here is thought. If TB and Pederson are so not sold on Hutch. and seriously considering a home run swing on Walker. Is there that much more risk on swing on Thibs?

Yes, the risk with Thibs is more in between the ears than on the field, but that almost seems like better home run swing than Walker to me.

considering the quote earlier reported that they wiped ~20 guys from their board over character type issues, I'd venture that even if Thibs isn't off the board, Walker would have the advantage if everything other than "between the ears" were even among them.

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

Kinda afraid of the implications to our sun in doing that....

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That's one sports book.

He's the favorite on all of them at this point.

Not what I just read.  Icky is best odds in at least one.

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

You guys are melting down about something that hasn't even happened yet.  

It is entertaining, though, I have to say.

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

You guys are melting down about something that hasn't even happened yet.  

It is entertaining, though, I have to say.

None of us really trust Baalke, and this team is already well on its way to ruin one of the best QB prospects in a long while.

All we can do with meltdown on a forum because none of us can do anything material about him or the franchise.

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

You guys are melting down about something that hasn't even happened yet.  

It is entertaining, though, I have to say.

Melting down or just relaying information for people that don’t have Twitter?

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Baalke doesn't even know who we're picking and everyone is quick to believe all these reports that Walker is the clear cut favorite.

Vegas adjusts odds based on the bets that are coming in, not because they are predicting the outcome.

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

Schefter also said Mac Jones was going #3 overall last year to the 49ers...

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

Schefter also said Mac Jones was going #3 overall last year to the 49ers...

Sorry, but I very clearly recall during the Leftwich/Dilla is a fraud timeline it was stated extremely matter of factly that we have to wait until Schefter says it because Schefter's word is the football holy word of god. If Schefter is not the bedrock of truth that we can all build our foundations upon then I am going to be shaken to my very core.

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Even Schefter just said he would be surprised if Hutch goes #1 now. He says Walker or OT. Fire Baalke into the sun.

Schefter also said Mac Jones was going #3 overall last year to the 49ers...

24 hours before the draft, pretty much everyone was reporting that Lynch and Shanahan had changed their minds and were gonna be taking Trey Lance. Given what Mac Jones accomplished last season, I bet they wish they'd never changed their minds.

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I would be ok with both Hutchinson or Walker at 1 at this point if that's what they are leaning towards.

Not what I would do but it could be worse.
I'm not sold on Hutchinson, his lack of lenght coupled with his height and how upright he plays with zero bend gives me pause when thinking about him going against NFL tackles. I think he may end up having to slide inside on passing downs.
You don't want to see him playing in space, I view him as a 4-3 DE or in a 3-4 only if you are never ever dropping him, he doesn't have it.
He has a great motor, fantastic use of hands, good power, good understanding of the game. I'm just afraid his limitations (or at least those that I view as limitations, for others those are not issues) will limit him to being a coverage sack guy , decent run stopper, not worthy of a 1 overall.
That said I would hope I'm wrong on that and since I see a lot of positives about him I will obviously root for him if we take him. In any case he will be at least a good player we are not talking Taven Bryan here.

I think Travon Walker can be a fantastic player in the NFL. I don't care that much (within a certain range)about combine numbers and all that but just watching him play you can see the explosion, fluidity, power (fantastic at the point of attack). Watching him move around is fantastic (especially compared to Hutchinson who looks super stiff and yes I don't care about either 3 cone numbers and stuff like that).
His run defense tape is stellar, effort can't be questioned, by all accounts a team player first.

That said he's the opposite of Hutchinson: his pass rush moves aren't there. Zero. He's saved himself when rushing the passer in college because of his incredible arm lenght but he needs so much refinement using his hands that I don't think it's a project the Jaguars are in position to take at number 1. They have to completely build a pass rush plan for this guy. He can do it but with the first overall is risky.
Perhaps with a coaching staff that has proven to be able to develop players. But not right now.
Like with Hutchinson though if he's the selection I'll welcome him and hope he can turn his traits into production. Like with Hutchinson I think both will be at least good players, no Taven Bryan here either.

I think that at 1 if you really want a scary edge rusher Thibodeaux would be the guy with 1 overall traits. But it seems obvious that the Jaguars and other teams are rubbed off the wrong way or at least don't trust his atittude and personality. If that's the case it's not even worth taking him into account as a 1st overall possibility at this point as it's just not going to happen.

I really wonder if we should go edge at 1 given what I think about these players. I might be tempted to go WR in all honestly, it's not something I would have normally even considered but this is not a fantastic draft at the top. Get Trevor a game changer. Get a shut down CB at 1. Hell, go OL at this point, at least you protect your QB. Think differently if you are not entirely sold on edge at 1. Ebiketie might be a fantastic deal if he makes it to 33.

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Sam describes my Hutch worries here pretty well. The things that worked for him in college aren't going to work nearly as well against bigger, better, faster, NFL tackles if they don't respect his outside rush.

I just wanted to see one (1) total win from him showing the bend and burst that his gamed 3 cone said he should be able to do regularly.

https://www.tiktok.com/@sammonsontoks/vi...sgWYY&_r=1

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Sam describes my Hutch worries here pretty well. The things that worked for him in college aren't going to work nearly as well against bigger, better, faster, NFL tackles if they don't respect his outside rush.

I just wanted to see one (1) total win from him showing the bend and burst that his gamed 3 cone said he should be able to do regularly.

https://www.tiktok.com/@sammonsontoks/vi...sgWYY&_r=1

This probably sums up well what i meant in my post just above (and also explains well what i meant when i say i don't care about his or Walker's test numbers, the eye test Is enough to see how differently they move, dont care if Hutch had legendary numbers in a 3 cone)

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This probably sums up well what i meant in my post just above (and also explains well what i meant when i say i don't care about his or Walker's test numbers, the eye test Is enough to see how differently they move, dont care if Hutch had legendary numbers in a 3 cone)

I wouldn't say Hutch has zero pass moves. His inside counter and bull rush are good moves. They just won't work well vs NFL OTs who don't respect the outside rush.

Are two good moves that are predicated off OTs respecting Hutch's weakness, combined with plus hands and an elite motor, enough to be a stud NFL player? It's a fair question.

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This probably sums up well what i meant in my post just above (and also explains well what i meant when i say i don't care about his or Walker's test numbers, the eye test Is enough to see how differently they move, dont care if Hutch had legendary numbers in a 3 cone)

I wouldn't say Hutch has zero pass moves. His inside counter and bull rush are good moves. They just won't work well vs NFL OTs who don't respect the outside rush.

Are two good moves that are predicated off OTs respecting Hutch's weakness, combined with plus hands and an elite motor, enough to be a stud NFL player? It's a fair question.

We have been saying the same thing, agreed.

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Walker might be an amendment to the planet theory. Generational movement skills. I initially hated the idea, but I'm now in a position where I think it's an acceptable risk.

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I wouldn't say Hutch has zero pass moves. His inside counter and bull rush are good moves. They just won't work well vs NFL OTs who don't respect the outside rush.

Are two good moves that are predicated off OTs respecting Hutch's weakness, combined with plus hands and an elite motor, enough to be a stud NFL player? It's a fair question.

We have been saying the same thing, agreed.

I was listening to 1010 today and the scout they had on was explaining how arms affect a DE. They use them to disengage and keep their feet clear.  In the pros you need to be able to extend them to keep from being chest to chest with the tackle. In that position your feet are too close and your basically stuck not being able to get off the block.  If you look at the games Hutch had issues that's what was going on.  Sayer would get to him and Hutch couldn't get off the block till the running back had passed by. That said, I believe against the run Walker and Hutch are pretty much equal with Thibs behind. Rushing the passer I would say Thibs #1, Hutch #2 and Walker gets an incomplete as he really wasn't asked to do that in the Georgia defense. They had him hanging out by the tackle covering 2 gaps most the time. For those of you with arm fetishes his are in the 95th percentile at 35 1/2 inches.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

The arm length thing doesn't usually bother me. We've seen a lot of 32" and shorter EDGEs be really good. They are usually smaller guys though, Ingram types. They obviously win around the edge first and foremost, but they can also win with bull rushes and long arms where they win the leverage battle.

We haven't seen a guy with Hutch's height win with short arms. A 6'7" guy is going to lose the first punch battle and the leverage battle. That's a very uncommon thing and I'm honestly not sure how to project it.

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Like from minute 9 until like 38 is full just debating Hutch vs Walker. Go through some interesting points of contention, though some have already been discussed on the board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY-KubYPHKs

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From what uve seen online

Apprently it goes like this


Khan wants hutch

Baalke wants walker

And Doug wants Ikenwou

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Like from minute 9 until like 38 is full just debating Hutch vs Walker. Go through some interesting points of contention, though some have already been discussed on the board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY-KubYPHKs

These guys make the best argument why it would be crazy to choose Walker over Hutchinson. It just doesn't make sense. Even the metrics say Hutchinson is the better choice. The only reason Baalke would choose Walker is because of his hatred for Harbaugh, which is well documented.

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