Yeah, you're right, those people at PFWA know nothing, and this message board knows everything.  Maybe they'll even award one of us Executive of the Year by proxy.  Maybe in the Mutiverse!

Also, why couldn't the team's record have gone down hill because the team was sick and tired of Harbaugh and his coaching style?  Had to be Baalke tho, cause he's obviously out on the field every day interacting with the players.

Year 1:  Mostly holdovers with some Baalke players mixed in.
Record:  13-3

Year 6:  Mostly Baalke selected players
Record:  2-14

Coaching helps, but personally I'm one who believes Jimmy and Joe's count far more than X's and O's.  You are free to believe what you want to believe.

I think we'd both agree it's a balance. Terrible coaching can neutralize elite talent, and great coaching can elevate avg to above avg talent. What percentage of which is more or less important can be debated endlessly.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

---

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

I thought so too but now I am not so sure... Walker seems like he is gonna be pretty good.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

TheOLineMatters that you?

---

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

I wasn't sure, because like most I just assumed what I heard. So originally I agreed with you, however from what i've seen now I think taking Hutch would have been a massive dissapointment. Walker looks insane.

---

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

TheOLineMatters that you?

Are you just saying that or what happened to that guy? Did they ban him or something? Haven't seen him in a while

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

TheOLineMatters that you?

Are you just saying that or what happened to that guy? Did they ban him or something? Haven't seen him in a while

Mostly just saying that because he wanted Hutch, or Sauce Gardner and hated Walker. He said if Walker was the pick he'd quit the Jags and stop following them. Fast forward to draft night and Walker was indeed the pick. He then proceeded to say he was officially done with the Jags and hasn't logged back on since. At least not on that account anyways. I have a hard time believing he hasn't paid at least some attention to what has been going on though.

---

Are you just saying that or what happened to that guy? Did they ban him or something? Haven't seen him in a while

Mostly just saying that because he wanted Hutch, or Sauce Gardner and hated Walker. He said if Walker was the pick he'd quit the Jags and stop following them. Fast forward to draft night and Walker was indeed the pick. He then proceeded to say he was officially done with the Jags and hasn't logged back on since. At least not on that account anyways. I have a hard time believing he hasn't paid at least some attention to what has been going on though.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

TheOLineMatters that you?

Are you just saying that or what happened to that guy? Did they ban him or something? Haven't seen him in a while

i remember when he said that! it was pretty fregin' helarious.

---

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

TheOLineMatters that you?

I think it is him.  Notice he says "I still think..." and yet that was his first post on this board under that name.

---

Are you just saying that or what happened to that guy? Did they ban him or something? Haven't seen him in a while

Mostly just saying that because he wanted Hutch, or Sauce Gardner and hated Walker. He said if Walker was the pick he'd quit the Jags and stop following them. Fast forward to draft night and Walker was indeed the pick. He then proceeded to say he was officially done with the Jags and hasn't logged back on since. At least not on that account anyways. I have a hard time believing he hasn't paid at least some attention to what has been going on though.

And he hated Baalke and goes on to say we haven't been too hard on him at all

---

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

Glad to have you back

---

Mostly just saying that because he wanted Hutch, or Sauce Gardner and hated Walker. He said if Walker was the pick he'd quit the Jags and stop following them. Fast forward to draft night and Walker was indeed the pick. He then proceeded to say he was officially done with the Jags and hasn't logged back on since. At least not on that account anyways. I have a hard time believing he hasn't paid at least some attention to what has been going on though.

And he hated Baalke and goes on to say we haven't been too hard on him at all

---

Not too hard at all. I still think passing on Aiden Hutchinson was a big mistake, I hope Travon Walker proves me wrong but he has a lot of work ahead of him to be even half the player Aiden is at right now. He's burned bridges at every organization he's been apart of and even though we spent a historic amount of money in FA, look who we spent it on. A lot of average players. This organization has been bad for a long time, and a lot of that blame falls on Shad. I love the Pederson hiring but let's see how much input he actually has here.

Glad to have you back

---

Again, that could be a function of Meyer.  He certainly had heavy input in who he wanted here, via draft or FA, to the point where he even tried out Tebow.

Meyer had input with the FAs?  The guy who didn't know who A. Donald is? He only brought his guys,  the others were on Baalke.

hogwash.

Jaguars management has stressed that Urban Meyer will be the key decision-maker, above anyone else. Team owner Shad Khan said so himself when he introduced Meyer last week.

“We’re going to be carrying out, obviously, Urban’s vision of the team and the kind of players we want,” said Khan on Friday, as quoted by the Jaguars’ official website.

---

Really??? I give up. 

Yeah, we've been so cruel to Baalke, he will continue prove he is a great GM 

1) Ballke (and maybe Meyer) made the picks, which they presumed had NFL level talent
2) Meyer 'coached' them (I use that term loosely) to underwhelming results.
3) Pederson takes over and begins coaching them to what Meyer and Baalke originally saw as their NFL level ability

Conclusion: they weren't inherently talentless picks when selected, they just played that way because of inept coaching.

To me, this is Logic 101.  What am I missing?

You forgot to demand FULL CONSISTENCY.

---

Fans clowned Baalke because he didn't deserve the job.  His record as San Francisco's gm was the following:

Year 1:  13-3
Year 2:  11-5
Year 3:  12-4
Year 4:  8-8
Year 5:  5-11
Year 6:  2-14

Can you not see the trend?  As second in charge of the Jaguars front office, he was 1-15.  As gm, he was 3-14.  He was hired as gm by Meyer.  When Meyer was fired, it made all the sense in the world to fire his partner in crime as well.

Ask yourself what would have happened if Baalke was let go?  Do you really think any other team would have hired him as their gm?  Not a chance!  It's highly doubtful that a single team would have even granted him an interview.  Why should the Jaguars have to settle for a guy no one else would want?

That being said, I hope Baalke does well.  I am a believer that people can improve at their job.  Some people learn from their mistakes.  However, there's nothing wrong with wanting a candidate with a good proven track record versus hiring someone with a lousy record and then blindly hoping that he improves.

First of all, they were 11-4-1 in Yr 2 above.  That year, they went to the Super Bowl.

Per Wikipedia, "In January 2012, Baalke was named PFWA Executive of the Year for the 2011 season, after being credited for transforming a 6–10 team into a 13–3 team in his first season as general manager.[6] The next month he received a contract extension through 2016."

So, he got them primed to compete for, and get to, the Super Bowl.  After that, per Wikipedia "After a 2014 season filled with reports that Baalke and then-49ers coach Jim Harbaugh had been clashing, the 49ers parted ways with Harbaugh and promoted defensive line coach Jim Tomsula to the head coaching position."

So, they fired Harbaugh.  Why not Baalke, if he was such a big problem?  Harbaugh has since been found to be a divisive 'my way or the highway, ego-driven' coach, much like Meyer was.  That's a big reason why he and Kelly returned to college coaching, and why Meyer will eventually, There are parallels here.

Finally, he was fired with Chip Kelly, another allegedly 'difficult' coach to work with (remember the racist allegations made against him by his own players in Philly? along with the 'smartest guy in the room' syndrome, which is fine, but its how you display it).  Baalke's contract had been fulfilled.  In that case, its natural to move on from the Coach/GM package.

How do you know Meyer hired him?  This link says the exact opposite, that Meyer agreed to Baalke staying on as a concession for other 'promises'.
"That call wound up being to hire Urban Meyer, and as the Jags courted Meyer, Meyer’s focus in negotiations was on getting promises on facility upgrades, support staff hires, and budget for his coaching staff. So, as I understand it, he was willing to give on the Khans’ desire to retain Baalke as GM."
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/12/31/mailba...yer-firing

So, the 'trend' I see is that he's gotten saddled with either lousy or megalomaniacal coaches (with Meyer, both attributes apply).

If he can partner effectively with Pederson to get this team to a SB as quickly as he did with SF, I'll take that any day over what we've had here over the last 22 years.

You touched on something there, and ownership is partly why I get uptight when people only look at the record to suggest that the failing was solely on the GM. From Jed York's wiki:

Commenting on York's ability to manage the critical relationship between the general manager and the head coach, Michael Rosenberg wrote in Sports Illustrated, "he failed completely."[10] Rosenberg also described York's impact on the broader 49ers organization, noting that "York has created a culture that encourages selfishness, weakness and back-stabbing." Throughout the season, there were numerous leaks to the media from within the 49ers organization criticizing Coach Harbaugh. San Jose Mercury News columnist Tim Kawakami noted "York and [General Manager, Trent] Baalke were the primary sources for the off-the-record disclosures that undercut Harbaugh's tenure."[11]

As with the interaction between Meyer and Baalke, we really don't know the depth of his interaction with York. Was he simply carrying out marching orders in doing what he did? People criticize his prior coaching hires, but those same hires were praised by York, and did nothing to undo the chaos that led to Harbaugh's departure. If you read the wiki, York was doing everything possible to sour his coach's relationship with the team.

Jury's still out on whether the current Baalke can right the ship. So far, nobody can deny that we have improved over the past 9 months. Give it time.

---

Meyer had input with the FAs?  The guy who didn't know who A. Donald is? He only brought his guys,  the others were on Baalke.

hogwash.

Jaguars management has stressed that Urban Meyer will be the key decision-maker, above anyone else. Team owner Shad Khan said so himself when he introduced Meyer last week.

“We’re going to be carrying out, obviously, Urban’s vision of the team and the kind of players we want,” said Khan on Friday, as quoted by the Jaguars’ official website.

---

1) Ballke (and maybe Meyer) made the picks, which they presumed had NFL level talent
2) Meyer 'coached' them (I use that term loosely) to underwhelming results.
3) Pederson takes over and begins coaching them to what Meyer and Baalke originally saw as their NFL level ability

Conclusion: they weren't inherently talentless picks when selected, they just played that way because of inept coaching.

To me, this is Logic 101.  What am I missing?

You forgot to demand FULL CONSISTENCY.

Last post about it. 

Meyer? The guy that didn't know Aaron Donald? The guy that didn't even know his own players? The guy that obviously didn't care? People on twitter were asking the reporters to invent a player on the Jaguars and ask Meyer about him to see if he fell for it...

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

hogwash.

---

You forgot to demand FULL CONSISTENCY.

Last post about it. 

Meyer? The guy that didn't know Aaron Donald? The guy that didn't even know his own players? The guy that obviously didn't care? People on twitter were asking the reporters to invent a player on the Jaguars and ask Meyer about him to see if he fell for it...

Not sure which part of the post you are responding to, but it sounds like you think Meyer was an inept buffoon as a coach, which has been my point all along.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

TheOLineMatters that you?

I think it is him.  Notice he says "I still think..." and yet that was his first post on this board under that name.

Busted in his very first post on his new account LOL. 

OLineMatters stop the BS, no one is surprised you are back, also no one is complaining. Welcome back lol

---

Last post about it. 

Meyer? The guy that didn't know Aaron Donald? The guy that didn't even know his own players? The guy that obviously didn't care? People on twitter were asking the reporters to invent a player on the Jaguars and ask Meyer about him to see if he fell for it...

Not sure which part of the post you are responding to.

Mikey will know

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

First of all, they were 11-4-1 in Yr 2 above.  That year, they went to the Super Bowl.

Per Wikipedia, "In January 2012, Baalke was named PFWA Executive of the Year for the 2011 season, after being credited for transforming a 6–10 team into a 13–3 team in his first season as general manager.[6] The next month he received a contract extension through 2016."

So, he got them primed to compete for, and get to, the Super Bowl.  After that, per Wikipedia "After a 2014 season filled with reports that Baalke and then-49ers coach Jim Harbaugh had been clashing, the 49ers parted ways with Harbaugh and promoted defensive line coach Jim Tomsula to the head coaching position."

So, they fired Harbaugh.  Why not Baalke, if he was such a big problem?  Harbaugh has since been found to be a divisive 'my way or the highway, ego-driven' coach, much like Meyer was.  That's a big reason why he and Kelly returned to college coaching, and why Meyer will eventually, There are parallels here.

Finally, he was fired with Chip Kelly, another allegedly 'difficult' coach to work with (remember the racist allegations made against him by his own players in Philly? along with the 'smartest guy in the room' syndrome, which is fine, but its how you display it).  Baalke's contract had been fulfilled.  In that case, its natural to move on from the Coach/GM package.

So, the 'trend' I see is that he's gotten saddled with either lousy or megalomaniacal coaches (with Meyer, both attributes apply).

If he can partner effectively with Pederson to get this team to a SB as quickly as he did with SF, I'll take that any day over what we've had here over the last 22 years.

His early teams did well largely because of players he inherited.  The more he made personnel moves, the more the team went downhill.

Yeah key personnel move being Kap. It was all downhill after that one 12-4 year.

Baalke was in the 9ers org since 05 making personnel moves and decisions. I'm not saying he's great, will be great or whatever.

But this internet message board mob is plainly idiotic sometimes with their revisionist history. 9ers had good players. They then relied heavily on a gimmicky QB, then when he got hurt/committed career suicide and the turmoil with the HC happened and the following carousel its only a matter of time before the GM gets shown the door.

He had a solid run in SF. That's all we need from him. Get some good pieces over a few off seasons, Doug and Trev should carry us the rest of the way. Personally I think he's doing pretty good so far considering. And what happened in SF 10 years ago matters very little at this point.

---

hogwash.

---

You forgot to demand FULL CONSISTENCY.

Last post about it. 

Meyer? The guy that didn't know Aaron Donald? The guy that didn't even know his own players? The guy that obviously didn't care? People on twitter were asking the reporters to invent a player on the Jaguars and ask Meyer about him to see if he fell for it...

That's precisely the point. If Meyer was so dang clueless
AND we have it on record that Meyer was given authority over the roster
it's a bit of a stretch to lay the blame squarely on Baalke's shoulders as you did.

(which was the entire premise of the question to begin this thread)

---

Last post about it. 

Meyer? The guy that didn't know Aaron Donald? The guy that didn't even know his own players? The guy that obviously didn't care? People on twitter were asking the reporters to invent a player on the Jaguars and ask Meyer about him to see if he fell for it...

That's precisely the point. If Meyer was so dang clueless
AND we have it on record that Meyer was given authority over the roster
it's a bit of a stretch to lay the blame squarely on Baalke's shoulders as you did.

(which was the entire premise of the question to begin this thread)

So a guy who knew pretty much nothing about the NFL somehow the decided to bring Marvin Jones, Ward, Manhertz RRH, Jenkins, Griffin and Agnew?



Obviously Hyde, Dorsett and the others were his guys but the others... 
Also the draft was obviously mostly not Meyer (who was also probably clueless about players there too except Ohio St guys), we know Baalke has a thing for players who have had injuries but whatever

BTW I never said it was all Baalke's fault but the most important FA's were. Meyer guys were cheap and old (Dorsett, Hyde).

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23