Do I want the jags here?  Absolutely!!!! However, I call BS on that statement. This town is going to continue to expand whether of not the Jags are here.  A number of reasons are driving this.  Just one is our port and completion of the expanded canal.  We will eventually be one of the largest ports on the East Coast. (95 and 10 intersection.

Silly me, I forgot that container ships bring in so many tourists.

LOL, I have been to Akron, Jacksonville will not crash and burn without the Jags. That is just silly. (or fear mongering) The tourist will continue to come.  Would it be better with them? Hell yea, but there is no doomsday without them....like I said BS.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I live in Los Angeles. Have never been to Florida.

I voted that the team MUST stay in Jacksonville. If I can contribute $200 to the renovation of the stadium I'll happily do it. DUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAALLLL!!!

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The Other Jag Forum: Duval Football Fans.

Brandon Scherff is no longer that dude.   Next season I want him gone.

Why would you want people to pay more taxes?

If you had to choose between a half cent sales tax, and the team not being here, which would you choose?  

a) Half cent sales tax and team stays here for good.
b) No new taxes and the team moves to London. 

Pick one.

First it is a half a cent. Then a whole cent.  They take enough in taxes, they don't need anymore money. Spend the money they already have.

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If you had to choose between a half cent sales tax, and the team not being here, which would you choose?  

a) Half cent sales tax and team stays here for good.
b) No new taxes and the team moves to London. 

Pick one.

First it is a half a cent. Then a whole cent.  They take enough in taxes, they don't need anymore money. Spend the money they already have.

As an out of towner...

1) Who are they?
2) How much money do they actually have?

The second question, imo, will determine what type of renovations we're talking about.    I've heard that NFL team owners can only contribute 40% of the cost of the stadium.  Is that so?

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The Other Jag Forum: Duval Football Fans.

Brandon Scherff is no longer that dude.   Next season I want him gone.

People [BLEEP] about an extra penny in taxes should move out of Jacksonville and experience some real taxes.  My taxes are literally four…hell more….times what they were when I moved.  And I get zero benefit since the vast majority go to schools.  I’m paying for somebody else’s kids to go to school. And there are plenty of states that are worse.

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First it is a half a cent. Then a whole cent.  They take enough in taxes, they don't need anymore money. Spend the money they already have.

As an out of towner...

1) Who are they?
2) How much money do they actually have?

The second question, imo, will determine what type of renovations we're talking about.    I've heard that NFL team owners can only contribute 40% of the cost of the stadium.  Is that so?

I don't care if I'm an out of towner, in towner, there is never a valid reason for more taxes. Ever. And they is the government.

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People [BLEEP] about an extra penny in taxes should move out of Jacksonville and experience some real taxes.  My taxes are literally four…hell more….times what they were when I moved.  And I get zero benefit since the vast majority go to schools.  I’m paying for somebody else’s kids to go to school. And there are plenty of states that are worse.

Agreed. I have relatives in New Orleans and Illinois. We really don’t have it bad in Duval County.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

People [BLEEP] about an extra penny in taxes should move out of Jacksonville and experience some real taxes.  My taxes are literally four…hell more….times what they were when I moved.  And I get zero benefit since the vast majority go to schools.  I’m paying for somebody else’s kids to go to school. And there are plenty of states that are worse.

Agreed. I have relatives in New Orleans and Illinois. We really don’t have it bad in Duval County.

So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

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Agreed. I have relatives in New Orleans and Illinois. We really don’t have it bad in Duval County.

So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

I understand where you're coming from. In regards to taxes essentially being legalized theft for a fiat currency and money system controlled by a giant centralized banking cartel that keeps most Governments and political leaders on their payroll. 

I completely understand. The sad reality is that, we're born into this system, we're forced to pay into this system. There's really no strong efforts being made to start a revolution to stop these people from holding us back. 

So, with that said? Pick your poison I guess. I would rather pay a little bit more for a team that stays in my city, provides jobs locally, nationally and internationally, and, most importantly, supports an owner that has shown the willingness and desire to invest in this city. Thus, creating more job opportunities and potential income back into the city's economy.

Pick and choose your battles wisely.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

I understand where you're coming from. In regards to taxes essentially being legalized theft for a fiat currency and money system controlled by a giant centralized banking cartel that keeps most Governments and political leaders on their payroll. 

I completely understand. The sad reality is that, we're born into this system, we're forced to pay into this system. There's really no strong efforts being made to start a revolution to stop these people from holding us back. 

So, with that said? Pick your poison I guess. I would rather pay a little bit more for a team that stays in my city, provides jobs locally, nationally and internationally, and, most importantly, supports an owner that has shown the willingness and desire to invest in this city. Thus, creating more job opportunities and potential income back into the city's economy.

Pick and choose your battles wisely.

Right. If you want to talk about taxes in general, that's a different beast altogether. 

We have to pay them anyway, some more than others. Might as well use them to support a team you love. I'm going to be paying like $300 for Sunday ticket so I can watch Jax play this year. I'd gladly give that money to the stadium build instead.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I understand where you're coming from. In regards to taxes essentially being legalized theft for a fiat currency and money system controlled by a giant centralized banking cartel that keeps most Governments and political leaders on their payroll. 

I completely understand. The sad reality is that, we're born into this system, we're forced to pay into this system. There's really no strong efforts being made to start a revolution to stop these people from holding us back. 

So, with that said? Pick your poison I guess. I would rather pay a little bit more for a team that stays in my city, provides jobs locally, nationally and internationally, and, most importantly, supports an owner that has shown the willingness and desire to invest in this city. Thus, creating more job opportunities and potential income back into the city's economy.

Pick and choose your battles wisely.

Right. If you want to talk about taxes in general, that's a different beast altogether. 

We have to pay them anyway, some more than others. Might as well use them to support a team you love. I'm going to be paying like $300 for Sunday ticket so I can watch Jax play this year. I'd gladly give that money to the stadium build instead.

Yepper. Two things in life are certain. Death and Taxes.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Agreed. I have relatives in New Orleans and Illinois. We really don’t have it bad in Duval County.

So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

dude, you need to take a breather.
have you considered the cost associated with NOT doing what it takes to get the improvements done? (Spoiler: your taxes will likely go down, but for very wrong reasons.)

(other spoiler: you'll still be paying these taxes if you choose to support the team when you have to travel and stay overnight to catch games in their new home)

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Agreed. I have relatives in New Orleans and Illinois. We really don’t have it bad in Duval County.

So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

Let's break this down:

• only 30 cities have NFL stadiums 
  
• since 2000 those cities have spent a combined 7.3 billion dollars on stadium renovations or construction
  
• only 3 stadiums are privately funded - New York and LA are self explanatory because of the giant market and profitability of such a venue in those dense populations
  
• Gillette stadium is the only pseudo outlier and Kraft ponied up the 300 mil to build that after his plan to move to Connecticut fell through and he was forced to make something happen quickly before the franchise had no home
  
• These stadiums are a major asset to the areas they serve - they bring big, big dollars to the community in terms of jobs and tourist revenue
  
• Not having one of these compared to having one is a bad thing for our community
  
• We've established that the only way it will happen in all but the biggest markets is through a combo of private money (Khan) and public funds (CoJ)
  
• Despite your complaint it DOES matter that we have it easy in Jax in terms of taxes. Otherwise additional taxation to fund a stadium would be viewed much differently by the public a large. You seem to be on your own there. 
  
• We don't know yet how much the city will settle on paying when the deal is done - and we don't know how they'll gather the funding - we do know that the city will have a world class modernized facility that only a dozen or so other cities in the US can match. That's valuable. It will attract more events, concerts and tourist dollars. 
  
• It isn't going to get done without public money
  
• The team isn't going to remain here if it isn't done
  

This is a no brainer unless the city can't iron out a reasonable deal, and they will.

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So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

Let's break this down:

• only 30 cities have NFL stadiums 
  
• since 2000 those cities have spent a combined 7.3 billion dollars on stadium renovations or construction
  
• only 3 stadiums are privately funded - New York and LA are self explanatory because of the giant market and profitability of such a venue in those dense populations
  
• Gillette stadium is the only pseudo outlier and Kraft ponied up the 300 mil to build that after his plan to move to Connecticut fell through and he was forced to make something happen quickly before the franchise had no home
  
• These stadiums are a major asset to the areas they serve - they bring big, big dollars to the community in terms of jobs and tourist revenue
  
• Not having one of these compared to having one is a bad thing for our community
  
• We've established that the only way it will happen in all but the biggest markets is through a combo of private money (Khan) and public funds (CoJ)
  
• Despite your complaint it DOES matter that we have it easy in Jax in terms of taxes. Otherwise additional taxation to fund a stadium would be viewed much differently by the public a large. You seem to be on your own there. 
  
• We don't know yet how much the city will settle on paying when the deal is done - and we don't know how they'll gather the funding - we do know that the city will have a world class modernized facility that only a dozen or so other cities in the US can match. That's valuable. It will attract more events, concerts and tourist dollars. 
  
• It isn't going to get done without public money
  
• The team isn't going to remain here if it isn't done
  

This is a no brainer unless the city can't iron out a reasonable deal, and they will.

They just need to use the tax money they already get. They don't need more.

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Let's break this down:

• only 30 cities have NFL stadiums 
  
• since 2000 those cities have spent a combined 7.3 billion dollars on stadium renovations or construction
  
• only 3 stadiums are privately funded - New York and LA are self explanatory because of the giant market and profitability of such a venue in those dense populations
  
• Gillette stadium is the only pseudo outlier and Kraft ponied up the 300 mil to build that after his plan to move to Connecticut fell through and he was forced to make something happen quickly before the franchise had no home
  
• These stadiums are a major asset to the areas they serve - they bring big, big dollars to the community in terms of jobs and tourist revenue
  
• Not having one of these compared to having one is a bad thing for our community
  
• We've established that the only way it will happen in all but the biggest markets is through a combo of private money (Khan) and public funds (CoJ)
  
• Despite your complaint it DOES matter that we have it easy in Jax in terms of taxes. Otherwise additional taxation to fund a stadium would be viewed much differently by the public a large. You seem to be on your own there. 
  
• We don't know yet how much the city will settle on paying when the deal is done - and we don't know how they'll gather the funding - we do know that the city will have a world class modernized facility that only a dozen or so other cities in the US can match. That's valuable. It will attract more events, concerts and tourist dollars. 
  
• It isn't going to get done without public money
  
• The team isn't going to remain here if it isn't done
  

This is a no brainer unless the city can't iron out a reasonable deal, and they will.

They just need to use the tax money they already get. They don't need more.

Well that's the question isn't it? Ideally they find a way to do that and don't have to raise taxes at all.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Listing a few economic studies and reports:

https://globalsportmatters.com/business/...s-stadium/

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?...id=4022547

https://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/up...waukee.pdf

https://www.investigativepost.org/2021/1...w-stadium/

https://esd.ny.gov/sites/default/files/n...1-1-21.pdf

https://dornpolicygroup.com/how-new-spor...economies/

https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-econ...it-margin/

https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/sta...ll-073015/

https://digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/v...ors-theses

https://econjwatch.org/File+download/222...metype=pdf

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sport...-the-cost/

I think the overall message from all these are basically. If a community smaller than NYC/LA wants a professional sports team to have them, then they will have to offset some costs with public funds.

However, any arguments about spurring economic development or improving the city are overstated. That is with caveat that the money not spent on a stadium would be spent on other infrastructure/development projects. If the decision is stadium or nothing, then there is marginal benefit to the stadium but it has to fit a larger development plan for the area and community.

To be honest. I believe there is a net marketing benefit to having a professional team in Jax that is often forgotten. Most people I've met before moving to and since moving from Jax are completely oblivious to the city existing. That argument is really hard to quantify in these types of economic studies and a pretty unique aspect to Jax having a professional sports teams compared to most other cities.

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Born in Jax and lived there until a recent move for work. Still hold season tickets and sell most of them to people we used to sit by. Hopefully I can keep that up since the team is actually getting better. Still pay property tax on a home I hope I can come back to someday.

I will never forgive any local politician that doesn’t try to keep the team in Jacksonville (provided Khan operates in good faith). It will take funding to update the stadium. Pinching pennies on the stadium is short sighted and that type of thinking will keep Jacksonville as a second class city. At the moment it feels ready to boom.

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Do I want the jags here?  Absolutely!!!! However, I call BS on that statement. This town is going to continue to expand whether of not the Jags are here.  A number of reasons are driving this.  Just one is our port and completion of the expanded canal.  We will eventually be one of the largest ports on the East Coast. (95 and 10 intersection.

Wouldn't you rather have a significant port  AND  billions of dollars of positive impact + 100,000 created jobs from the team and its footprint?

Of course I do. I support building a stadium or renovating it.  I even bolded it and put three exclamation points.  The point was quit with the threats of Jacksonville becoming a desolate wasteland without them it just is not true. If that were the case the NFL would not be here. I guess if it is said enough times people can convince themselves of that, but I can't imagine why they would want to. 

If you are looking for 100,000 jobs due to the Jags or a positive ROI on our public investment you are going to be disappointed. That has yet to happen anywhere ever. I know it is touted but just in studies funded by the teams wanting the public money. (it is amazing those studies have secret sources or will not allow review by nuetral parties) It will be a cost, one I am in favor of but I am not foolish enough to write a blank check.  I think of it as an investment in the local culture and a good thing.  At the end of the day it is a cost though. 

I am awaiting the release of the Jags vision of that area of someone posted they had and hearing what our owner has to say.  I am sure a deal will be worked out as long as that silly 2 years away isn't there.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Wouldn't you rather have a significant port  AND  billions of dollars of positive impact + 100,000 created jobs from the team and its footprint?

Of course I do. I support building a stadium or renovating it.  I even bolded it and put three exclamation points.  The point was quit with the threats of Jacksonville becoming a desolate wasteland without them it just is not true. If that were the case the NFL would not be here. I guess if it is said enough times people can convince themselves of that, but I can't imagine why they would want to. 

If you are looking for 100,000 jobs due to the Jags or a positive ROI on our public investment you are going to be disappointed. That has yet to happen anywhere ever. I know it is touted but just in studies funded by the teams wanting the public money. (it is amazing those studies have secret sources or will not allow review by nuetral parties) It will be a cost, one I am in favor of but I am not foolish enough to write a blank check.  I think of it as an investment in the local culture and a good thing.  At the end of the day it is a cost though. 

I am awaiting the release of the Jags vision of that area of someone posted they had and hearing what our owner has to say.  I am sure a deal will be worked out as long as that silly 2 years away isn't there.

Agreed on the overstated benefits. I live part of the year in Ponte Vedra so not sure if I qualify as local, but I'm in favor of no new taxes. God forbid a government reduce expenses or end ineffective programs/spending.

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Agreed. I have relatives in New Orleans and Illinois. We really don’t have it bad in Duval County.

So that makes it ok? You are cool with more taxes because you have it better than other areas? The concentration l government steals enough of your money as it is, they don't need anymore.

You a business owner too ?

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