Trump deliberately selected someone who was competent, Christian, and dull, so he wouldn't be overshadowed.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Do any Trump supporters here feel like he’s a traditional conservative? I'm not trying to make a point, I’m just honestly curious how his supporters view him. My brother’s a supporter, and when I asked him this question, he replied that he has the qualities of a traditional conservative without the baggage. Asking him to explain what that meant though went off into some odd tangents.

Oh, I misread the question, too. Conservatism popped up as a response to progressivism in the early 1900's and wasn't overtly religious. Its primary function was to limit the powers of the federal government and protect the Constitution of the US. It wasn't really until the Cold War was underway that we started to see more Christian influence as a response to godless communism, with its influence reaching its strongest peak with the Christian Coalition. I think of Pence as a Christian Coalition conservative, and that group really lost its power over gay rights. So, at least in my life, I think it's safe to say Pence is a traditional conservative, but that's not really what the base is looking for anymore. Moreso, he represents a specific period of conservatism that doesn't brand well these days. Then again, what conservatism brands well? I think libertarianism is the best you can claim.

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So it’s a personality thing. I would like to see a primary and a race where a discussion of the issues mattered more but I guess it’s not likely.

There's little material difference between the two parties, so discussion of the issues isn't really relevant. It's more about which old guy's benefactors do you want to get preference when the politicians screw the People.

In matters of money and in foreign relations, you are correct.
In matters of, will they actually count our votes when we vote,  certain Republicans have gone completely off the wagon. 
Even if you don't see much difference between Trump's policy on the economy and Biden's,  you still need to preserve your right to vote in case there is a "material" difference in the future.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

He's not a traditional conservative, he's a New York Moderate. That makes him too left for me personally but he's practically Hitler to the New York Left. Most of his supporters are on his side because they view him as a radical who is working outside of the conventional norms with which they are done.

I thought he was asking what Trump voters think of Pence. If not, he has my answer for it.

As for Trump, he is not a traditional conservative in the sense that many regard traditional conservatism. The right likes him for the same reasons the left hate him.

I switched it up on you. ;-) I was curious why Pence doesn’t get more support since he seems more of a traditional Republican than Desantis or Trump. Then I asked if maybe Trump voters preferred *him* because they viewed him as a traditional Republican.

What I think I’m hearing is people think he’s not a hard core conservative per se but is an alternative to what’s happening with the more traditional wing of the GOP. That sounds similar to what my bro was saying.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

The best way to explain it is people used to want positive things, and now they don't.

Democrats used to want big ambitious social safety net programs. Now that they have a half-hearted baseline healthcare plan, the voters are comfortable and don't want any more new things for a while. They just want to keep what they have. Some democrat politicians get out there with more ambitious ideas, but enough democrat voters reject those ideas that it doesn't happen.

Republicans used to want massive new toys for the pentagon and to have their vision of God and country dominate our cultural dialogue and self perception. Now they've stopped pushing for more of that, and are even in some ways fine with less. The Republicans now aren't unified by any ideas or beliefs except (1) taxes should be lower and (2) democrats lost the last election and should lose the next one.

Both parties mainly have a negative agenda. Any positive agenda they dream up divides their own base.

They used to say, big minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events and the smallest minds talk about people. Well, we still have plenty of big minds, but they aren't in politics anymore. Neoliberalism won, keynesiansm won, pop music won, etc. We'd like to discuss new big ideas but there just isn't much new to discuss.

The good ideas still out there to explore in politics are small. In engineering and technology and entertainment we still discuss big ideas but politics is down to events and people. Sad!

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The best way to explain it is people used to want positive things, and now they don't.

Democrats used to want big ambitious social safety net programs.  Now that they have a half-hearted baseline healthcare plan, the voters are comfortable and don't want any more new things for a while.  They just want to keep what they have.  Some democrat politicians get out there with more ambitious ideas, but enough democrat voters reject those ideas that it doesn't happen.

Republicans used to want massive new toys for the pentagon and to have their vision of God and country dominate our cultural dialogue and self perception.  Now they've stopped pushing for more of that, and are even in some ways fine with less.  The Republicans now aren't unified by any ideas or beliefs except (1) taxes should be lower and (2) democrats lost the last election and should lose the next one.

Both parties mainly have a negative agenda.  Any positive agenda they dream up divides their own base.

They used to say, big minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events and the smallest minds talk about people.  Well, we still have plenty of big minds, but they aren't in politics anymore.  Neoliberalism won, keynesiansm won, pop music won, etc.  We'd like to discuss new big ideas but there just isn't much new to discuss. 

The good ideas still out there to explore in politics are small.  In engineering and technology and entertainment we still discuss big ideas but politics is down to events and people.  Sad!

I think you’re right. It really seems like voters in both parties have become less concerned with what it means to be a traditional conservative or liberal and are more focused on how steadfast and uncompromising a candidate conducts themselves in relation to the opposition. Especially on the hot button issues.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

I thought he was asking what Trump voters think of Pence. If not, he has my answer for it.

As for Trump, he is not a traditional conservative in the sense that many regard traditional conservatism. The right likes him for the same reasons the left hate him.

I switched it up on you. ;-) I was curious why Pence doesn’t get more support since he seems more of a traditional Republican than Desantis or Trump. Then I asked if maybe Trump voters preferred *him* because they viewed him as a traditional Republican.

What I think I’m hearing is people think he’s not a hard core conservative per se but is an alternative to what’s happening with the more traditional wing of the GOP. That sounds similar to what my bro was saying.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0BGfJEBH7So?feature=share

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I switched it up on you. ;-) I was curious why Pence doesn’t get more support since he seems more of a traditional Republican than Desantis or Trump. Then I asked if maybe Trump voters preferred *him* because they viewed him as a traditional Republican.

What I think I’m hearing is people think he’s not a hard core conservative per se but is an alternative to what’s happening with the more traditional wing of the GOP. That sounds similar to what my bro was saying.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0BGfJEBH7So?feature=share

I sometimes wonder how Reagan would do in today's political climate. As great an orator as he was, I suspect he'd be less successful with today's sound bite oriented media. So is Pence a Reagan Republican but with stunted communication skills? I feel that Pence is more hawkish on defense than Trump which feels kind of 1980s-ish.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0BGfJEBH7So?feature=share

I sometimes wonder how Reagan would do in today's political climate. As great an orator as he was, I suspect he'd be less successful with today's sound bite oriented media. So is Pence a Reagan Republican but with stunted communication skills? I feel that Pence is more hawkish on defense than Trump which feels kind of 1980s-ish.

Reagan, as with other politicians, were a product of their time when oration, and just basic decency, was more closely observed. I don't think any of them could have thrived in today's climate. Could you imagine a political opponent cracking up on stage about a joke like Mondale did when Reagan remarked about Mondale's "youth and inexperience", or even more, a candidate with a self-effacing sense of humor?  Obama was the last one with enough grace for either. You won't find that in today's divided politics. I won't get into the bare-naked bias of the media as compared to those days. 

Pence is actually better at communication that most think. He was a radio show host for years. My guess is he wisely believes the less said the better, but he's already said enough that I wouldn't support him because of the reason I cited before. I agree, he has that Reagan hawkishness about him, which isn't a bad thing given the world circumstances right now.

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I sometimes wonder how Reagan would do in today's political climate. As great an orator as he was, I suspect he'd be less successful with today's sound bite oriented media. So is Pence a Reagan Republican but with stunted communication skills? I feel that Pence is more hawkish on defense than Trump which feels kind of 1980s-ish.

Reagan, as with other politicians, were a product of their time when oration, and just basic decency, was more closely observed. I don't think any of them could have thrived in today's climate. Could you imagine a political opponent cracking up on stage about a joke like Mondale did when Reagan remarked about Mondale's "youth and inexperience", or even more, a candidate with a self-effacing sense of humor?  Obama was the last one with enough grace for either. You won't find that in today's divided politics. I won't get into the bare-naked bias of the media as compared to those days. 

Pence is actually better at communication that most think. He was a radio show host for years. My guess is he wisely believes the less said the better, but he's already said enough that I wouldn't support him because of the reason I cited before. I agree, he has that Reagan hawkishness about him, which isn't a bad thing given the world circumstances right now.

I don't get that. So he's religious.  So you're (I'm guessing) not.  As a practical matter what do you fear he would do that you could never support? Why is it a big deal?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/statu...53440?s=20

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https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/statu...53440?s=20

Problem with Christie is he blows with the wind. His criticism on trump is valid but it's not going to win him any votes. Hell if he just torpedos trump I'd be grateful. 

Anyone but trump vs Biden again seriously anyone.

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https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/statu...53440?s=20

Problem with Christie is he blows with the wind. His criticism on trump is valid but it's not going to win him any votes. Hell if he just torpedos trump I'd be grateful. 

Anyone but trump vs Biden again seriously anyone.

This.  If either of them are on the ballot the system has failed us.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/statu...53440?s=20

Problem with Christie is he blows with the wind. His criticism on trump is valid but it's not going to win him any votes. Hell if he just torpedos trump I'd be grateful. 

Anyone but trump vs Biden again seriously anyone.

I think most Americans feel like you do (I’m one of them) but unfortunately, I think we will be stuck with those old geezers.

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Problem with Christie is he blows with the wind. His criticism on trump is valid but it's not going to win him any votes. Hell if he just torpedos trump I'd be grateful. 

Anyone but trump vs Biden again seriously anyone.

I think most Americans feel like you do (I’m one of them) but unfortunately, I think we will be stuck with those old geezers.

The voting system is working as designed.
Ranked choice voting would eliminate both of them real quick.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think most Americans feel like you do (I’m one of them) but unfortunately, I think we will be stuck with those old geezers.

The voting system is working as designed.
Ranked choice voting would eliminate both of them real quick.

It won't. You claim it allows 3rd parties but all it does is split the 1st place votes but then all the 2nd place votes go towards the establishment.

Look at what happened in Alaska.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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The voting system is working as designed.
Ranked choice voting would eliminate both of them real quick.

It won't. You claim it allows 3rd parties but all it does is split the 1st place votes but then all the 2nd place votes go towards the establishment.

Look at what happened in Alaska.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Alaska takes the ranked choice ballots and counts them using the instant runoff method.  The instant runoff method asks candidates to seek second choice votes from the supporters of the candidate with the fewest first choice votes.  For instance, consider a three way race between Biden, Manchin, and Trump.  It is clear that Manchin will have the least number of first choice votes and he would be eliminated.  Those ballots get distributed to Biden or Trump by second choice preference.   All Trump has to do to win in this case is play nice with Manchin supporters and convince them that he will be better than Biden.  Instant runoff means you need to find support from people who don't love you.  That is not necessarily an "establishment" candidate.
There are other counting methods that work better and are more predictable.  The round Robin/ Copeland method is the main one.
The point of all of these systems is to get candidates to do more than just find 35-40% of voters that are all fired up about them.  In each of these methods more support is required and the candidates have to play nice with some of the other candidates. And when leaders play nice with other leaders there is less frivolous talk of civil war.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Welp, Trump has already put enough content on social media today to be charged with witness tampering in his GA indictments - as well as defamation of the prosecutor.

But - just in case that wasn't enough - here he is propping up a white nationalist.

https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/...13923?s=20

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It's so funny to watch these sissy dems and libs lose their [BLEEP] over Trump lolol

Biden is 10 times worse to the 10th power and they say nothing about it but "Trumpf!!!!" lololol

They "elected" the biggest grifter and con man of all time and are just too stupid to see it.. But TRUMPF!!!!

The "First Son" is a pedophile crackhead who laundered money for his pedophile daddy lolol

Jackasses lololol

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It's so funny to watch these sissy dems and libs lose their [BLEEP] over Trump lolol

Biden is 10 times worse to the 10th power and they say nothing about it but "Trumpf!!!!" lololol

They "elected" the biggest grifter and con man of all time and are just too stupid to see it.. But TRUMPF!!!!

The "First Son" is a pedophile crackhead who laundered money for his pedophile daddy lolol

Jackasses lololol

So funny to watch these pansy [BLEEP] conservatives whine about Biden, LOL

Drumpf is 1000 times worse to the 10th power and they say nothing but "Biden!!"  lololol

They elected the biggest grifter and con man of all time who and are too stupid to see it

His kids are all morons, and the son in law made 2 billion off of Trump's presidency via the Saudis

Jackasses lololol

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