Not everybody, you forgot the Atlanta Falcons.

The falcons were smoking something different 

Hell maybe they can see into the future

Hehe, if they could do that they'd be 17-0 every year.  My goodness what a kick in the beanbags that was to their fans.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

Not everybody, you forgot the Atlanta Falcons.

The falcons were smoking something different 

Hell maybe they can see into the future

It will be interesting to see whether the Falcons give their new 1st round pick the Green Bay/Jordan Love treatment. Also, I don't believe they were smoking anything, they were using an AI app that hallucinated. OR Maybe Penix was the BPA on their board?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

The falcons were smoking something different 

Hell maybe they can see into the future

Hehe, if they could do that they'd be 17-0 every year.  My goodness what a kick in the beanbags that was to their fans.

As far as I could see the fans either fainted or got onto the copium

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I gave this a B.

I felt needs were covered for the most part. The value in certain rounds were questionable with who was still available.

Favorite pick: Jarrian Jones (3rd)
NB has been needing a solid player for so many years on this team. You get one of the better NB press corners in the draft.

Worst pick: Keilan Robinson (5th)
Wasn't a need. Could have went 7th round or UDFA for a special team returner. Players available at this pick were greater value + need picks that were passed on.

Boils down to your needs and overall value. I think the clots had the best draft of the AFC South in my opinion. 

They landed a highly productive EDGE rusher in Latu. Who, is probably a top 5 pick if not for the injury concerns. They stole Adonai Mitchell at 52. They bolstered their offensive line with Goncalves and Bortolini. Gould is a good KR/PR. 

With the Jaguars? Here's how I look at it. Most of the fanbase was clamoring for one of the following four things all season and immediately during the off season. 

1. Offensive Lineman.
2. Defensive Lineman.
3. Wide Receiver.
4. Cornerback. 

They drafted 1 WR, signed 2 WR's. +3. (Duvernay still counts, maybe an Agnew gadget type player even as a returner).
The drafted 1 OT, signed 1 OC, signed 1 LG (Cleveland counts, whether you like it or not). +3. 
They drafted 2 CB's, signed 1 CB and 1 SS/Nickel CB. +4
They drafted 2 DT's, signed 1 DT. +3

There's 11 starters on each side guys, you then have rotational players. The burden fell on the defensive side of the football this off season with the firing of Caldwell and the hiring of Nielsen. A somewhat radical change had to be made quickly to improve some of their issues from last year. Especially in the secondary and especially on the interior. 

When your team is head coached by an offensive mind? That tends to be the norm. Expectations shift towards "Head coach is offensive minded, he needs to make magic out of lunch meat, he has no defensive minded tendencies, we need to add more talent there for the coordinator to compensate". 

This isn't factoring in last year's off season and draft class as well. The only glaring area that they didn't really address was EDGE. But, again, this goes back to the interior of the line being so pathetically anemic and showing no impact at all, that, the expectation is that by raising the floor of standard within the interior room, that, the pass rush improves by default.

This is also not factoring in that they signed a few UDFA's at WR and a promising RG in Steven Jones as well. Plus picking up a future 3rd and 4th RD selections that could end up being really, really good in value if JJ McCarthy struggles earlier on as a rookie, in, what could be a 4th placed Vikings team in a loaded NFC North. Green Bay and Detroit looked the part last year. Chicago just got a big overhaul with a new QB in town. 

We'll see how it all pans out. I just think everybody has their own definitions of what value is and what value means to them, and that's perfectly fine, but, I wouldn't get my teal panties in a bunch until these players don't show up on the football field or completely stink out loud. 

Cheers! We're getting closer to rookie minicamp and training camp. When you hear how awesome Myles Cole and Joshua Cephus look running around in shorts? Just remember, they're still long shots to make the roster.

You say stole but there is video of the Jets GM just giddy the Colts took Adonai Mitchell while he was trying to get up to get his receiver choice.  Clearly some gms didn't like him.

Citing the Jets GM doesn’t help your case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Fix the O-Line!

You say stole but there is video of the Jets GM just giddy the Colts took Adonai Mitchell while he was trying to get up to get his receiver choice.  Clearly some gms didn't like him.

Citing the Jets GM doesn’t help your case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If Adonai becomes a headcase or diva, I hope a lot of GMs do an "I told ya so" after Colts GM Ballard's obnoxious wannabe tough guy press conference defending a 21-year-old he barely knows. He made it sound like Adonai was his long lost son. But I guess you have to be a little loony to work with Irsay to begin with. Crazy attracts crazy.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

He's been cluless about this for years. He has his way and he thinks everyone drafts the way he would lol.  He lives in a fantasy would where every team drafts for need instead of some  just taking the best player even if it's not a need.  He'll you could argue every position is a need for every team because if it's not this year it will be in a year or 2.  You're not just drafting for this year.

He was just interviewing and said the exact opposite.

You must have not read the part where I said they lie about reaching down their board

Most of them aren't going to admit that they do it - but they do. 
Here's an exercise to clearly prove my point:

• Pick your favorite GM 
  
• Pull up the teams draft history under that GM
  
• Look at their roster needs annually as reported by the local beat writers (it's all out there and easy to find)
  
• You'll find that 90% (or more!) of their 1-3 round picks filled one of those needs
  
• Do you really think the board fell perfectly for them that many times??
  
• It didn't - they reached down a few spots on their board to select a similarly graded player at a position of need instead of the top guy they didn't need 
  
• It's called finding value
  

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Secondly - to the other posters that keep citing Baalke's draft history with the niners:

That [BLEEP] doesn't matter at all for us
Baalke is drafting in direct collaboration with Pederson and his staff now 
It's not comparable to the situation he was in with SF

Personally - I think Baalke is good in free agency and decent in the draft. Not terrible. Decent. Like a lot of GMs. Because the draft is such a crap shoot by nature. 

When we've made poor choices in the draft in 2022 - 2023 - 2024 - I lay as much blame on Pederson as Baalke
And it has not been perfect
I blame them both for letting Trevor suffer last year with such a sub-par OL - it's by far my biggest gripe with the way we have rostered the team under this regime

I'm not over here trying to prop up Baalke - just trying to have a more objective stance on what he's done in collaboration with Doug

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On the contrary. The value of IOL was skewed this draft because the class was unusually deep. We made no moves fit picks where value met need. So either we sat on our hands and relied on value to fall to our picks, or just took BPA on our board when our turn came up, or we gave zero farts about value or need and just targeted the guys we picked.

Are you trying to say that the guys we took where we took em represented such value that we woulda been foolish not to take them where we did, while continuing to leave the line practically unchanged in three days of picks? Were the IOL guys on the board when we picked that mediocre that choosing yet another reserve DB or a kick returner was that much more valuable to the improvement of our roster? It wasn't even just about IOL, either. Guys were sliding all over this draft, and may not be immediate need, but represented development potential. Depth today, but possibly starter in a year or two. Someone to save you from having to rely on overpriced FA when the current guys get pricey or old, or both. Were we truly taking best guys available?

The problem with your theory is you don’t know what the Jags board looked like. You are either A assuming you are a better talent evaluator than an NFL front office or B believe the media is.

None of us know what the board looked like, even after the players were selected. Or are you assuming they simply took top guy on the board with every pick?

I think we can all say Cam especially was a need over value pick as the run had just started before our pick came up. I don't sweat that pick, but you can't argue board all day without acknowledging that teams look at other factors when making their picks. Safe to say the team wholeheartedly did not see IOL as a need, or they did not think those guys represented the value that kickers and return men would provide. Probably more of the former than the latter.

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The falcons were smoking something different 

Hell maybe they can see into the future

Hehe, if they could do that they'd be 17-0 every year.  My goodness what a kick in the beanbags that was to their fans.

TIL, the failcons have fans

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He was just interviewing and said the exact opposite.

You must have not read the part where I said they lie about reaching down their board

Most of them aren't going to admit that they do it - but they do. 
Here's an exercise to clearly prove my point:

• Pick your favorite GM 
  
• Pull up the teams draft history under that GM
  
• Look at their roster needs annually as reported by the local beat writers (it's all out there and easy to find)
  
• You'll find that 90% (or more!) of their 1-3 round picks filled one of those needs
  
• Do you really think the board fell perfectly for them that many times??
  
• It didn't - they reached down a few spots on their board to select a similarly graded player at a position of need instead of the top guy they didn't need 
  
• It's called finding value
  

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/4006...nt-players

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You must have not read the part where I said they lie about reaching down their board

Most of them aren't going to admit that they do it - but they do. 
Here's an exercise to clearly prove my point:

• Pick your favorite GM 
  
• Pull up the teams draft history under that GM
  
• Look at their roster needs annually as reported by the local beat writers (it's all out there and easy to find)
  
• You'll find that 90% (or more!) of their 1-3 round picks filled one of those needs
  
• Do you really think the board fell perfectly for them that many times??
  
• It didn't - they reached down a few spots on their board to select a similarly graded player at a position of need instead of the top guy they didn't need 
  
• It's called finding value
  

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/4006...nt-players

To clarify, NOT my favorite GM but there’s an easy example. Some are BPA.

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Trading the 17th for 23, a 5th and a 3rd and 4th in next years draft goes down as one of the best moves in Jaguars draft history.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

Trading the 17th for 23, a 5th and a 3rd and 4th in next years draft goes down as one of the best moves in Jaguars draft history.

It was a good move and another example, WR was far from our biggest need. I like following BPA.

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Trading the 17th for 23, a 5th and a 3rd and 4th in next years draft goes down as one of the best moves in Jaguars draft history.

Jeff Lageman says Baalke’s move was a FLEECING (his emphasis) of the draft that gained huge value for next year’s picks.

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Trading the 17th for 23, a 5th and a 3rd and 4th in next years draft goes down as one of the best moves in Jaguars draft history.

It was a good move and another example, WR was far from our biggest need. I like following BPA.

Baalke clearly stated they were targeting that receiver from the outset and then realized  they  could trade down and get him 

You don't target a specific player if you don't view him as a need

They clearly considered an X receiver with length and speed a major need.

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It was a good move and another example, WR was far from our biggest need. I like following BPA.

Baalke clearly stated they were targeting that receiver from the outset and then realized  they  could trade down and get him 

You don't target a specific player if you don't view him as a need

They clearly considered an X receiver with length and speed a major need.

It is a major need and not importantly he is really good at the routes Trevor throws best.

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I give the draft an incomplete. I will vote in this poll at the end of the season. I am tired of hype and boom bust thinking. It is all about the product on the field. This is a good to good enough team and I am glad that we have 2 seasons of competition. I look forward to them improving.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

It was a good move and another example, WR was far from our biggest need. I like following BPA.

Baalke clearly stated they were targeting that receiver from the outset and then realized  they  could trade down and get him 

You don't target a specific player if you don't view him as a need

They clearly considered an X receiver with length and speed a major need.

Yup, teams target players, no doubt.

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https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-...ns-flummox

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https://www.nfl.com/news/2024-nfl-draft-...ns-flummox

Would y’all trade Steelers class for ours straight up?

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I gave it a B-.  I liked the first pick and that's the most important pick.  I would have been happy with Thomas at #17, but we got three picks by trading down.  Next year, we'll be happy to have that extra 3rd and 4th round pick.

We drafted at all of our needs with the exception of IOL.  However, I'm not sure they correctly prioritized those needs.  For example, I thought cornerback was our biggest need and we waited until a third round comp pick.  I wanted a defensive end no later than the 4th round and we waited until the 7th round, etc.

Unlike some, I have no problem with drafting a kicker.  I thought we should and would.  In regards to the running back / kick returner, I don't particularly like the player, but I didn't have a problem with using a late round pick on that position.  The new kickoff rules are expected to encourage the use of two returners.  I also think most people are forgetting that keeping 4 running backs on your 53 man roster is the norm.  We began last year with 4 on the roster.  It was only after the injuries occurred and the Jaguars were desperate for available roster spots that they decided to release Hasty mid-season.  For a healthy opening day roster, I would expect them to go back to 4.  Prior to the draft, the Jaguars only had scrubs to fill that fourth spot.

In regard to value, I have serious questions.  I realize that mock drafts and player evaluations aren't always right.  However, they aren't always wrong either.  It's an indication.  If they are right, we reached on virtually every pick outside of the first and last round.  Let's hope they are wrong.  I could see this draft going in a lot of different directions.  I do consider many of these to be "boom or bust" type of picks.  If we hit on them, it could potentially be a very good draft.

This is fair. I went B+ because they moved down six or seven spots and picked-up a future 3rd and 4th. That's considered the 9th most lopsided trade in recent history. I think that can't be overlooked. 

In regards to the offensive line. Sure, would have liked one more lineman added, but, all things considered. Here's how I see it. 

They signed Morse, which addresses the weakest position and player on the team in Fortner. 
They brought back Cleveland, after they traded for him last year. When he's healthy, he's a damn good guard. 
They drafted Harrison last year at RT, who played well with a bum shoulder. 
They're bringing back Cooper Hodges from last year. 
They drafted Javon Foster as the next swing tackle. 
They kept Cam Robinson for LT.
They still have Walker Little who should honestly get put through the ringer this year at LT/LG/RG with his final year left.
They signed UDFA Steven Jones at RG who is an absolute whopper and played pretty good for the Oregon Ducks. 

There's some hope here for this offensive line. There really is. I expect them to be on better track this summer but we'll see. Had the maybe added Limmer out of Arkansas at C or Mahogany who kept slipping out of Boston College, I probably would have bumped their grade up to an A.

What is the source on this?  I've heard it said multiple times, but they must be using some bizzarro-world point chart.  When I pull up a points chart off the internet (such as DraftTek), it shows the Jaguars actually losing from a points perspective.  Below are the calculations:

The #17 spot is worth 950 points while the #23 spot is worth 760.  This means the Jaguars lost 190 points by moving down.

The Jaguars get the Viking's 3rd and 4th rounder next year.  However, it is commonly accepted that future picks are worth 1 round lower than a pick in the current draft.  As such, those picks should be treated as 4th and 5th rounders.  The Vikings' draft position next year is unknown.  If we assume that they are at the same spot next year as this year (#10 overall), those picks are worth 74 and 33.5 points respectively.  Add the 24.6 points for the #167 overall in 2024 draft, and you only come to 132.1 points.  We lost 57.9 points.

Even if we assume the Vikings are drafting #1 overall next year, we still would lose the trade by 31.4 points.

I would have to assume that the "points chart" showing that we won doesn't take into consideration that future picks are worth less than current picks.  If I do the calculations assuming all three picks were this year, then yes, it's true that the Jaguars would then "win" the trade.  However, even then, it's by a margin of 128.6 points or a very late 3rd rounder.  That's nice, but I would still have a hard time believing that could be the 9th most lopsided trade in NFL history.  Again, I would like to see the source.  I think someone is doing some creative math.

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