Yeah he is a good QB getting pain like a Franchise/elite one.

Maybe he can improve under a new staff, but he has some really bad habits.

T'was a slip of the phrase but true nonetheless.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I think part of what hurt him was coming into the league we the idea he needed to be pandered to as a generational talent. He was not taught how to be an NFL QB early, especially during the Urban year. However, I still think he is a good player we continue to build around. But if you come across a true generational talent at QB, you draft them.

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Nothing wrong with Trevor at all. Read my comments on the game thread. Summary is once they quit trying to FORCE the "Doug and Press" offensive system went up tempo and played a modern offense TL is comfortable with the offense caught fire. We have pissed away a season with Doug's pride doing this. He isn't stubborn he just will not change his approach ever. Pride is one of those seven deadly sins. It goes before a fall.

The offensive scheme has definitely not helped.

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I think part of what hurt him was coming into the league we the idea he needed to be pandered to as a generational talent. He was not taught how to be an NFL QB early, especially during the Urban year. However, I still think he is a good player we continue to build around. But if you come across a true generational talent at QB, you draft them.

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Nothing wrong with Trevor at all. Read my comments on the game thread. Summary is once they quit trying to FORCE the "Doug and Press" offensive system went up tempo and played a modern offense TL is comfortable with the offense caught fire. We have pissed away a season with Doug's pride doing this. He isn't stubborn he just will not change his approach ever. Pride is one of those seven deadly sins. It goes before a fall.

The offensive scheme has definitely not helped.

So one group thinks Lawrence is pandered to, the other thinks he needs to just call the game himself. Weird how perceptions vary.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yea it is. Yesterday's game almost reminded me of when the Coyotes took the field in the second half without Bud Kilmer. Problem was we just didn't have Billy Bob to run the hook and ladder. (Varsity Blues)

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Wait. I was told Trevor is like Jason Campbell?!

This can’t be right.

Very cheeky and very, very off base and taken completely out of context. His SITUATION is becoming similar to Jason Campbell's time with Washington. Due to bad ownership and consistent changes with the coaching staff, he never had a chance really to exceed expectations. This is how I view Lawrence's situation. Nowhere in that post I made stated that he's physically, mentally or statistically the same as Jason Campbell. Nice try though... 

Campbell went from Gibbs to Zorn and he had four different offensive coordinators I believe in four years there. Lawrence went from Meyer to Pederson and it feels like this is his third or fourth "technical" offensive play calling change in his fourth year. There's always been an identity crisis here for Lawrence. 

We can't seem to do anything right consistently and we expect Lawrence to dig the team out of a hole that they put themselves in.

I got this ugly feeling that Lawrence's career will follow Stafford's pattern. Years of miserable teams during his prime, a late trade to a contender and suddenly he's on top.

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Very cheeky and very, very off base and taken completely out of context. His SITUATION is becoming similar to Jason Campbell's time with Washington. Due to bad ownership and consistent changes with the coaching staff, he never had a chance really to exceed expectations. This is how I view Lawrence's situation. Nowhere in that post I made stated that he's physically, mentally or statistically the same as Jason Campbell. Nice try though... 

Campbell went from Gibbs to Zorn and he had four different offensive coordinators I believe in four years there. Lawrence went from Meyer to Pederson and it feels like this is his third or fourth "technical" offensive play calling change in his fourth year. There's always been an identity crisis here for Lawrence. 

We can't seem to do anything right consistently and we expect Lawrence to dig the team out of a hole that they put themselves in.

I got this ugly feeling that Lawrence's career will follow Stafford's pattern. Years of miserable teams during his prime, a late trade to a contender and suddenly he's on top.

It's played out pretty well for Detroit now too though. We just need to waste the rest of Lawrence's youth in order to get there.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

This is on Trevor but i think MOSTLY coaching. WHY NOT RUN THE BALL?? You needed to take time off the clock, they had 2 time outs with 1:40 to play. WHY even have an option to throw to our 3RD stringer!! SUCH HORRIBLE COACHING

Should also mention that his hand was bandaged up after the prior series, no idea if that was affecting grip, accuracy or anything, but we seemed to lean squarely on the pass at the wrong time.

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https://twitter.com/travisdholmes/status...915L-t18Xg

Yup

Haters don't like facts

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This disaster wasnt totally on Trevor...until the end.

It wouldnt matter if Justin Jefferson or Jamaar Chase was standing there instead if Johnson...he overthrew it for a pick.  Sorry if reality gets in the way here.

You honestly believe JJ or Chase (or any other actual receiver) wouldn't have at least made a better attempt on that ball?

Why does it matter?

It's the decision making that's the problem.

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We got jekyll and Hyde today. 

We weren’t in the game without him but he made a boneheaded play. He’ll learn. He’s been improving his turnovers all year and playing with warm bodies today. 

Dammit Trevor. Oh well. It gets Doug fired quicker

How attractive do you think the job opening is going to be with a mid QB that's paid like he's elite?

A whole heap of a lot better than one with an old, mid QB paid like he's elite, assuming the team can obliterate enough cap spending to field a team like the Aints will be.
Probably about the same with less (or maybe different is a better term) expectation than a team with a mid QB at the top of the salary board, a guanopsychotic owner, and a ravenous fanbase like the 'pokes will be.

What other openings do you think there will be? NYG? NYJ? Are either of those a desirable job? The only other comparable situation I could see opening up would be Cincy, and working under Mike Brown hasn't proven any better than working under Shad would be. They're just as incomplete and in progress as we seem to be.

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TLaw is not a winner

Winners put the team on their back and find a way to win.

When the game is on the line, Count on Lawrence to turn the ball over

IOW, when forced to play hero ball, the hero doesn't always win.

Did you say this about his throw against GB last week?

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When the game is on the line, Count on Lawrence to turn the ball over

IOW, when forced to play hero ball, the hero doesn't always win.

Did you say this about his throw against GB last week?

You mean the one into triple coverage?

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He’s the kind of QB where we have to through weird cherry-picked stats just to defend his performance

Instead of his play on the field just doing that all on its own

People see what they want to see.  I think it is time to move on myself but there is too much money invested now. Baalke really did put this team between a rock and a hard place.

Yeah, we'd be so much better off with the rentals like Jameis, Minshew or their caliber with the games on the line.

How many of yesterday's misses hit a player in the hands or were a throwaway because nobody was open? Would you prefer that he not throw those, and take a sack instead?
When you accomplish 30 yards of offense over 30 minutes of football, it's kinda hard not only to rack up stats, but even to establish any kind of rhythm.

Our top rusher yesterday had 24 whole yards. Give the guy zero support, and expect him to do everything. That's what the successful teams do!

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Yeah it sucked when he threw that pick in the end zone last week

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Yah they do. And even the QBs better then Lawrence put up worse numbers with injuries like this

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Move on to who????
This qb class is nothing exciting,  maybe outside of cam ward MAYBE

Every year there is always some prospect most of the media has not heard about that breaks out into the NFL.  However, staying the same course and asking for different results is just hopeful wishing. He had that magical run in 2022. That same QB for whatever reason is not playing for the Jaguars. He is young but that doesn't guarantee anything.  This is year 4, how many years do you keep making excuses.  He is what he is.

examples?

Is Spencer Rattler that guy this season? Jayden Daniels? nobody heard of him, pretty certain of that.
Who was it the year before? Surely that CJ Stroud guy was flying under everyone's radar.

How many of them have long term success? Remember how brightly Minshew shined in his debut, hasn't done much remarkable since those brief flashes in his first year.

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I think part of what hurt him was coming into the league we the idea he needed to be pandered to as a generational talent. He was not taught how to be an NFL QB early, especially during the Urban year. However, I still think he is a good player we continue to build around. But if you come across a true generational talent at QB, you draft them.

I...wut?

The dude carried all the expectations that everyone else heaped on his shoulders and handled a MISERABLE situation as well as any 20-something year old could have. Dude has been subjected to some of the poorest line play and still managed to keep the team competitive in spite of the weekly abuse. He's never copped attitude of entitlement or selfishness in spite of the crapfest around him, where has this ever been a thing?

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IOW, when forced to play hero ball, the hero doesn't always win.

Did you say this about his throw against GB last week?

You mean the one into triple coverage?

is that not the epitome of hero ball?

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I think part of what hurt him was coming into the league we the idea he needed to be pandered to as a generational talent. He was not taught how to be an NFL QB early, especially during the Urban year. However, I still think he is a good player we continue to build around. But if you come across a true generational talent at QB, you draft them.

I...wut?

The dude carried all the expectations that everyone else heaped on his shoulders and handled a MISERABLE situation as well as any 20-something year old could have. Dude has been subjected to some of the poorest line play and still managed to keep the team competitive in spite of the weekly abuse. He's never copped attitude of entitlement or selfishness in spite of the crapfest around him, where has this ever been a thing?

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You mean the one into triple coverage?

is that not the epitome of hero ball?

Losing poisons passion and corrupts it into anger.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Team was over hyped when really nothing has ever been fixed or addressed. QB is just another position of misery with this pathetic franchise

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

How attractive do you think the job opening is going to be with a mid QB that's paid like he's elite?

A whole heap of a lot better than one with an old, mid QB paid like he's elite, assuming the team can obliterate enough cap spending to field a team like the Aints will be.
Probably about the same with less (or maybe different is a better term) expectation than a team with a mid QB at the top of the salary board, a guanopsychotic owner, and a ravenous fanbase like the 'pokes will be.

What other openings do you think there will be? NYG? NYJ? Are either of those a desirable job? The only other comparable situation I could see opening up would be Cincy, and working under Mike Brown hasn't proven any better than working under Shad would be. They're just as incomplete and in progress as we seem to be.

He’s not getting paid like elite next few seasons. His higher base amount kicks in later in the contract. So that criticism is DOA

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A whole heap of a lot better than one with an old, mid QB paid like he's elite, assuming the team can obliterate enough cap spending to field a team like the Aints will be.
Probably about the same with less (or maybe different is a better term) expectation than a team with a mid QB at the top of the salary board, a guanopsychotic owner, and a ravenous fanbase like the 'pokes will be.

What other openings do you think there will be? NYG? NYJ? Are either of those a desirable job? The only other comparable situation I could see opening up would be Cincy, and working under Mike Brown hasn't proven any better than working under Shad would be. They're just as incomplete and in progress as we seem to be.

He’s not getting paid like elite next few seasons. His higher base amount kicks in later in the contract. So that criticism is DOA

Keep fighting the good fight bud. Notice how no one is mentioning the Oline? That we had Trammell on the field that final drive? That Trevor had 2 rush TD's? That he took a huge hit and a cut hand but kept fighting? No one mentioning the Etienne pick? Yeah the throw for the INT was a bad decision and one he'd want back but the team did a great job to be in the position for that play to matter.

I respect posters like Enigma who has explained his position on Trevor and why he is where he's at. Sadly some posters just want to troll and throw rocks.

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He’s not getting paid like elite next few seasons. His higher base amount kicks in later in the contract. So that criticism is DOA

Keep fighting the good fight bud. Notice how no one is mentioning the Oline? That we had Trammell on the field that final drive? That Trevor had 2 rush TD's? That he took a huge hit and a cut hand but kept fighting? No one mentioning the Etienne pick? Yeah the throw for the INT was a bad decision and one he'd want back but the team did a great job to be in the position for that play to matter.

I respect posters like Enigma who has explained his position on Trevor and why he is where he's at. Sadly some posters just want to troll and throw rocks.

It’s to the point where I wanna ask the mods to pin a thread no comments with his contract broken down. It’s been broken down before in this thread. There’s plenty of reasons in good faith one may criticize Trevor, but the “hEs BeInG PaId ElItE MoNeY” is not one and shows that person has not had their comprehension level checked lately

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Keep fighting the good fight bud. Notice how no one is mentioning the Oline? That we had Trammell on the field that final drive? That Trevor had 2 rush TD's? That he took a huge hit and a cut hand but kept fighting? No one mentioning the Etienne pick? Yeah the throw for the INT was a bad decision and one he'd want back but the team did a great job to be in the position for that play to matter.

I respect posters like Enigma who has explained his position on Trevor and why he is where he's at. Sadly some posters just want to troll and throw rocks.

It’s to the point where I wanna ask the mods to pin a thread no comments with his contract broken down. It’s been broken down before in this thread. There’s plenty of reasons in good faith one may criticize Trevor, but the “hEs BeInG PaId ElItE MoNeY” is not one and shows that person has not had their comprehension level checked lately

Agreed. I said at the start of the season that his contract would be the new 'problem' used to criticise him this year. The problem was most of the old reasons they had, Trevor has overcome them so now it's the contract which is deliberately misinterpreted when the moment suits.

For me personally, I don't mind people criticising Trevor. I really don't. My frustration comes from when people ignore anything good he does to just focus on one bad play as if that's symbolic of his career and potential as a whole. I just want to see the whole 60 minute taken into account not just 7 seconds.

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It’s to the point where I wanna ask the mods to pin a thread no comments with his contract broken down. It’s been broken down before in this thread. There’s plenty of reasons in good faith one may criticize Trevor, but the “hEs BeInG PaId ElItE MoNeY” is not one and shows that person has not had their comprehension level checked lately

Agreed. I said at the start of the season that his contract would be the new 'problem' used to criticise him this year. The problem was most of the old reasons they had, Trevor has overcome them so now it's the contract which is deliberately misinterpreted when the moment suits.

For me personally, I don't mind people criticising Trevor. I really don't. My frustration comes from when people ignore anything good he does to just focus on one bad play as if that's symbolic of his career and potential as a whole. I just want to see the whole 60 minute taken into account not just 7 seconds.

Criticism can be legit, for instance, he shouldn't have thrown that pass into the end zone. Criticism should also be fair, they weren't in that position at all without him making some great plays during the previous drives. Criticism should also be complete, he's gotten very little help from those around him again this year and he bears the brunt of the criticism for their bad play.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato