Good.  Thanks.  That makes sense.

If all that is true, should we start Najee Goode instead of Quincy Williams?

We watched Telvin Smith make the same mistakes early on. Its growing pains of the NFL. All the aggression needs to be focused in.
Just got to make sure he learns from it

Unfortunately we have a vet Mike LB that just got paid and also hasn't mastered this lesson.

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I keep seeing "gap defense" lately. Is that just another way of saying a 4-3? If not, what's the alternative?

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I keep seeing "gap defense" lately.  Is that just another way of saying a 4-3?  If not, what's the alternative?

The alternatives (within 4-3) are mostly just different ways to assign the various gap responsibilities to various personnel.

Over, Under, Base, Nickel and so forth. They all still have gap responsibility.

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We watched Telvin Smith make the same mistakes early on. Its growing pains of the NFL. All the aggression needs to be focused in.
Just got to make sure he learns from it

Unfortunately we have a vet Mike LB that just got paid and also hasn't mastered this lesson.

absolutely needs to get it together. He has a lot on his plate being the QB of the defense and leading with all the turnover that's occurred on the defensive roster.
I think it will just take him some time locking in on his assignments AND making sure everyone else knows their assignments.
I think having to juggle this responsibility has slowed down his progression but I do believe he becomes a good Mike. 
Pretty obvious he doesnt have the natural instincts to be great/elite. The instincts will have to come with time and repetition.

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That's an interesting view.  It appears Myles Jack was moving to cover the TE.  It also appears that Josh Allen moved toward the TE.  Ronnie Harrison and Quincy Williams both moved forward and to their right, leaving at least one of them out of position.  When Campbell and Darius both failed to make the play, it's clear sailing for McCaffrey.

It makes you wonder, what are the assignments on this play?  If everyone is playing their assignment, it's on the coaches.

Jack was covering the TE, Josh Allen had Contain to that side (the TE just happened to be there, his responsibility was to keep the run from getting outside), Quincy had McCaffrey .. he overpursued thinking it was outside zone (this play is middle zone, the play the Panthers said they called a record number of times bc we couldn't stop it) Quincy gets out of his gap (starting to understand his benching last sunday, he's FAST but his overzealousness as a rookie was clearly targeted and punished by the Panthers all day) and McCaffrey cuts back into that gap and runs to daylight.

The thing that's most concerning is the safeties ... it's obvious what they're doing every play; Wilson had the deep right half to prevent us being beaten over the top, and Harrison was brought down to the line of scrimmage to help with the run and cover the flat if they went pass.

Also of concern in Calais lining up inside as a 3-technique on 2nd and 10; like I love Calais, he's an absolute ANIMAL, but besides a 3rd down/obvious passing situation he's a little underweight at 290-300 to be scrapping with guards, also becaue of his height (which is a huge advantage on the edge) he's at a disadvantage leverage wise playing inside. & on a down when the run is still an option .. it can be punished. I think he's kicked inside bc Allen has been playing SO WELL that they're just trying to find a way to get him on the field.

If Jake Ryan returns I think we should run a 3-4 ... Hear me out: Calais-Dareus-Bryan as a LDE-NT-RDE; Josh Allen-Jake Ryan-Myles Jack-Ngakoue as LOLB-LILB-RILB-ROLB ... we have some wrinkles of this but it's honestly the best base set that gets our best players on the field, utilizes all of our talent in the front 7, and doesn't put any player in a spot where they're "out of position" and can be punished (with Capers in the building who's a 3-4 expert, I think some of the growing pains can be mitigated) & for Nickel we can switch to a 4-2-5 that we're running now with Jack & Quincy at LB and Ngakoue & Allen just go back to having their hand in the dirt.

Final Note: I want to see a version of Caper's "Pyscho Defense" from the Packers SB year: 1-5-5 essentially. Calais on the line, Allen-Jake Ryan-Myles Jack-Quincy-Ngakoue for the LB's that are shifting around in the "Pyscho fashion" and Ramsey-Bouye-Hayden-Wilson-Harrison as the DB's ... I think it would be incredibly effective with the athleticism & speed we have on this defense.

Thanks for this!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Fix the O-Line!

Okay, just spitballing here.

Besides Dareus and Campbell, we dont have a lot of power guys up front, we are more speed. Our LB's cant shed O-line blocks easily. 

I know we are 4-3 but what if we dropped an LB for an extra DT when we cant stop the run. Have a 5 man front, matchup man for man on Oline and we just need 1 person to win their battle. We have Allen, Dareus, Bryan, Campbell, Ngakoue. 

Just an idea, now tear away!!

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Are you suggesting he should not cover the TE?  Who should cover the TE on that play?  He was the LB closest to that side of the field. 

You say, "Do your job..." but what was his job?  That's what I'd like to know.  Why did he move toward the TE?

If the Panthers knew that motioning the TE toward that side if the field would cause Jack to think he had to cover the TE, then I guess Darius was right and they pencil-whipped us.

That was 56's gap. 56 overpursued into the safeties gap and got sealed off by the guard.
Myles is covering for 56 and I appreciate his leadership on that. Myles shouldve better recognized the run and come off the TE, but thats a tough ask.

It looked like cover 3

Good shout. William's got pulled in the 2nd half. There seemed to be some confusion before the snap with the LB's and Jack bit on the TE and went left, William's overpursued and went right and the hole was even bigger.

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Okay, just spitballing here.

Besides Dareus and Campbell, we dont have a lot of power guys up front, we are more speed. Our LB's cant shed O-line blocks easily. 

I know we are 4-3 but what if we dropped an LB for an extra DT when we cant stop the run. Have a 5 man front, matchup man for man on Oline and we just need 1 person to win their battle. We have Allen, Dareus, Bryan, Campbell, Ngakoue. 

Just an idea, now tear away!!

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5 man fronts aren't terribly uncommon.  The "monster" front gets used in goal line and short yardage situations by a number of teams. 
Usually a 5-3 against the run but can be 5-2 against pass with the fifth lineman being a blitzer.

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I keep seeing "gap defense" lately.  Is that just another way of saying a 4-3?  If not, what's the alternative?

The alternatives (within 4-3) are mostly just different ways to assign the various gap responsibilities to various personnel.

Over, Under, Base, Nickel and so forth. They all still have gap responsibility.

So when I hear one of our players saying something like, "Well, we play a gap defense, so blah blah blah..."  An appropriate thought is "No [BLEEP], Sherlock.  Everybody does." Yes?

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Were missing 20.

Ramsey shuts down his side (week 1 outlier) and provides excellent run support.

I think this loss was on Wash. They were running a zone scheme and we just sat back in base. No run blitzing. The Safeties were out of position too many times and we got caught gambling.

We were overloaded on those 3 big runs and got caught. They made Campbell run today. And trapped Dareus, and our LBs and Safeties were chasing all game.

This one is on Wash in my opinion.

I put the blame on Myles Jack he’s got a fill the gap as the middle linebacker and he’s just not consistently filling the right gap. The run game was never the same after the [BLEEP] retired. Jack did take responsibility after the game for missing the gap assignments I just hope he settles in as he gains more experience.

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Okay, just spitballing here.

Besides Dareus and Campbell, we dont have a lot of power guys up front, we are more speed. Our LB's cant shed O-line blocks easily. 

I know we are 4-3 but what if we dropped an LB for an extra DT when we cant stop the run. Have a 5 man front, matchup man for man on Oline and we just need 1 person to win their battle. We have Allen, Dareus, Bryan, Campbell, Ngakoue. 

Just an idea, now tear away!!

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5 man fronts aren't terribly uncommon.  The "monster" front gets used in goal line and short yardage situations by a number of teams. 
Usually a 5-3 against the run but can be 5-2 against pass with the fifth lineman being a blitzer.

We just couldn't stop the run Sunday. I get switching personal to see if we can fix it but I thought we did a poor job just trying to find a way. Bryan had 8 snaps Sunday.

I get using it in short yardage but I'd rather have got hit with a deep pass trying to stop the run than just keep getting beaten by the same play over and over.

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The alternatives (within 4-3) are mostly just different ways to assign the various gap responsibilities to various personnel.

Over, Under, Base, Nickel and so forth. They all still have gap responsibility.

So when I hear one of our players saying something like, "Well, we play a gap defense, so blah blah blah..."  An appropriate thought is "No [BLEEP], Sherlock.  Everybody does." Yes?

I'm no guru of the X's and O's but it seems clear that a number of players (and fans) might prefer something more exotic to be happening in the scheme. 

But, yes, nearly every 4-3 team spends a lot of time playing "gap defense" as far I can tell. 

Smarter football folks here could tell you more definitively.

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The alternatives (within 4-3) are mostly just different ways to assign the various gap responsibilities to various personnel.

Over, Under, Base, Nickel and so forth. They all still have gap responsibility.

So when I hear one of our players saying something like, "Well, we play a gap defense, so blah blah blah..."  An appropriate thought is "No [BLEEP], Sherlock.  Everybody does." Yes?

its either 1 gap or 2 gap(heads up).
Jags play one gap where 8 defenders line/position up in a gap and defends that gap.
In a 2 gap, the defender is heads up with the lineman/blocker and has to cover the gap to the left and right.
And ofcourse the hybrid where its a mix

Nomenclature changes coach to coach.

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The alternatives (within 4-3) are mostly just different ways to assign the various gap responsibilities to various personnel.

Over, Under, Base, Nickel and so forth. They all still have gap responsibility.

So when I hear one of our players saying something like, "Well, we play a gap defense, so blah blah blah..."  An appropriate thought is "No [BLEEP], Sherlock.  Everybody does." Yes?

Every defender has a run responsibility for a pre-determined gap in the defense. There are A, B, and C gaps. A is between OC and OG, B is between OG and OT, and C is the edge. On a running play each defender "crashes" their gap. 

The alternative is a 2-gap scheme, traditionally a 34 defense, where the NT is responsible for both A gaps and each DE is responsible for the B and C gaps to his side. Their job is to tie up the blockers, diagnose which gap is being run to, and fill it.

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Thread title:  What has happened to our once vaunted defense?

Do you remember back in '17 we had a MLB named Paul Posluszny?  A guy who was always filling the correct hole and making the tackle?  Remember that guy?

For the most part this is correct.  The consistent Poz allowed Miles Jack and Telvin Smith make plays pretty much similar to what LBs like James Farrior and Larry Foote did for the Steelers playmakers James Harrison & LaMarr Woodley over the years.  Poz, Farrior, and Foote didn't often make the highlight reel but they were keys to consistency of their respective teams.

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Defense is currently tied for dead last in takeaways in the league at 2 total. Got to find a way to get that ball for Minshew to go to work.

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https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/...90720?s=19

That's an interesting view.  It appears Myles Jack was moving to cover the TE.  It also appears that Josh Allen moved toward the TE.  Ronnie Harrison and Quincy Williams both moved forward and to their right, leaving at least one of them out of position.  When Campbell and Darius both failed to make the play, it's clear sailing for McCaffrey.

It makes you wonder, what are the assignments on this play?  If everyone is playing their assignment, it's on the coaches.

For that particularly play, I agree. Quincy was in the wrong gap, as Harrison was the edge guy. It basically allowed 1 Panthers Lineman was sort of block 3 Jags off the ball until some other linemen got the second level, creating a cut back lane for CMC. 

I know Jack took blame for it after the game, but he had the TE and the possibility of a QB keeper roll out/run that he had to cover.

Also remember Quincy got benched halfway through the game. I don't remember anyone else being benched.

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Spot on with the play analysis
Would definitely like to see more formation diversity, but that cant happen until the safeties and linebackers are on the same page

I mean they are starting 2 LB and 2 Safeties that have never started a full season before. 1 is a complete rookie and the others aren't that much older. When they made the plan to have 2 younger Safeties, the Jags probably thought they were still going to have Telvin and expected Jake Ryan to be healthy. 

Essentially, it is foolish to think they these players weren't going to be attacked and that they wouldn't make mistakes due to lack of experience. I think most fans were "expecting" Pro-Bowl-esque seasons from Calais, Dareus, and Yan and hoping for that from Mack, in order to cover for some of those issues. I'm not sure how you can rely on that as a coach though. But D-Line really need them to help out more with penetration/clogging gaps to make reads easier for the LB's. 

Also, this scheme was always flawed. To really depend on it, it requires an elite LB and an elite safety with above-average players at a many other positions. The Jags never had a LB on the same level as Bobby Wagner ( Poz and Telvin were good, but neither is Wagner.) and never had one like Earl Thomas.

In the past few seasons, even Seattle stopped using it as frequently, and this season they run something completely differently.

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I found it interesting to read that Robert Saleh the 49ers DC has switched the defense up to more a diverse coverage scheme on the back end kind of like Fangio. Obviously the front 4 is the important part but mixxing it up on the back end has helped them a lot top. He's from the Seattle tree and used to be LB coach here

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Not too bad the last 2 weeks.

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