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Draft Questions

#41

(11-28-2021, 12:50 PM)Bullseye Wrote: It's highly unlikely that we pull off 7 straight wins and make the post season, so I figure why not talk some draft with a few questions.

1.  Irrespective of position or where they are projected to go in the draft, who are on your top 5 wish list for the Jaguars?  Mine?  Jordan Davis, Jameson Williams, Lindenbaum, Isaiah Likely, Jahon Dotson.

2.  Assuming we end up with a top 5 pick, would you be willing to trade down?  If so, how far back would you be willing to trade back?  Is there a player you would have in mind when determining how far back to trade?  In other words, below this point, your targeted player likely would not be available?

3.  Is there a player for whom you would trade up?

4.  Of the top 5 you listed in #1 above, is there a player/position you would be willing to forgo in the draft if you signed a top tier guy in free agency?

5.  If you were unable to get a trade down and were forced to pick in the top 5, who would be your target?  For me, Jordan Davis.

Here's another tackle I really guy.  Greet feet and has really improved on his run blocking, 5 star recruit.  PFF had him as 1st team All SEC.  These are some plays from last year and a little break down on him but he has even had a much better year this year.  I like how he finishes his blocks.

https://youtu.be/sljgq9dwBac
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#42

(12-01-2021, 12:05 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(12-01-2021, 11:38 AM)Bullseye Wrote: FYI, Rich Eisen had us picking 2nd in the draft order as of yesterday.

Of the teams picking below us that need a QB, the Eagles (possibly), the Giants (possibly), Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Denver and Washington (19th IIRC) are all on the list.   I think 19 is too far down to move in one trade.  If we somehow traded back 2-3 times and wound up at 19, I might be okay with that, but to move back that far, we'd better end up with a ton of day two picks when all is said and done.

Question:  As I recall, your aversion to Neal stems from doubt that he can play LT in the NFL, even though he just gave up his one sack of the year this past weekend.  Buut we're actualy better at LT with Robinson than we are at RT with Taylor.  Neal has experience playing some RT, and he has the build for it.  If you were sold he could play RT at a high level, would you consider him at 3?

To me, the urgency we felt to upgrade the OL remains, and that makes me more open to Neal as a possibility.

I could be wrong, but I don't see the Eagles or Giants using high picks on a QB. I think they're gonna give their current QB's one more year. Atlanta and Carolina are desperate for a new QB. They would be most likely to trade up imo. I see New Orleans re-signing Jameis Winston. He started to hit his stride before the injury. They just need to get him some receivers to throw to. Call me crazy, but I think Aaron Rodgers is gonna be a Steeler next year and Roethlisberger will retire. Big Ben is a shell of what he once was. His arm looks completely "ragged out." Denver is starting to look like a pretty good team right now, so they may stick with Teddy. Washington desperately needs a QB as well. 

No. I don't believe in taking RT's that early. Good RT's can be had much later in the draft. We wasted a high second round pick on Jawaan Taylor and look what we got. I'm looking in that 3rd to 4th round range to find an OT, since I don't see any LT's in this draft worth wasting a pick on in rounds 1 or 2. One player I'm interested in is Max Mitchell of Louisiana he's been a key contributor to the team's great success this season and he has extensive experience at both OT positions. 

I'm not a fan of Neal at all. He's not even an option for me. I really don't think he offers much more than Robinson does as a LT. Yes, we screwed ourselves by not replacing our OT's much earlier when we realized they were not the players we drafted them to be, but as long as we keep Warhop, I don't see much success with who ever we put in there. He can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. He needs to be replaced with someone competent. I still believe that franchising Robinson is a real option. He's at least serviceable. Taylor has always been and will continue to be a turnstile at RT until he is replaced

I cannot state more emphatically that Warhop being replaced is the #1 priority for the offensive line needs. Replacing Taylor at RT is #2. Reality is though that Norwell and Cann are probably gone so at least one Guard is #3.
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#43
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2021, 10:31 AM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(12-02-2021, 09:41 AM)DTWD4∞ Wrote:
(12-01-2021, 12:05 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I could be wrong, but I don't see the Eagles or Giants using high picks on a QB. I think they're gonna give their current QB's one more year. Atlanta and Carolina are desperate for a new QB. They would be most likely to trade up imo. I see New Orleans re-signing Jameis Winston. He started to hit his stride before the injury. They just need to get him some receivers to throw to. Call me crazy, but I think Aaron Rodgers is gonna be a Steeler next year and Roethlisberger will retire. Big Ben is a shell of what he once was. His arm looks completely "ragged out." Denver is starting to look like a pretty good team right now, so they may stick with Teddy. Washington desperately needs a QB as well. 

No. I don't believe in taking RT's that early. Good RT's can be had much later in the draft. We wasted a high second round pick on Jawaan Taylor and look what we got. I'm looking in that 3rd to 4th round range to find an OT, since I don't see any LT's in this draft worth wasting a pick on in rounds 1 or 2. One player I'm interested in is Max Mitchell of Louisiana he's been a key contributor to the team's great success this season and he has extensive experience at both OT positions. 

I'm not a fan of Neal at all. He's not even an option for me. I really don't think he offers much more than Robinson does as a LT. Yes, we screwed ourselves by not replacing our OT's much earlier when we realized they were not the players we drafted them to be, but as long as we keep Warhop, I don't see much success with who ever we put in there. He can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. He needs to be replaced with someone competent. I still believe that franchising Robinson is a real option. He's at least serviceable. Taylor has always been and will continue to be a turnstile at RT until he is replaced

I cannot state more emphatically that Warhop being replaced is the #1 priority for the offensive line needs. Replacing Taylor at RT is #2. Reality is though that Norwell and Cann are probably gone so at least one Guard is #3.

Urbz loves Norwell so I could see him trying to resign Norwell

Jack is playing out of position but when I watch him run he just looks like he's hurt or injured. He just looks slow and he's never looked like that before. I wonder if he has a nagging injury that he's just not telling the staff about like Minshew did
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#44

(12-02-2021, 10:28 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 09:41 AM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: I cannot state more emphatically that Warhop being replaced is the #1 priority for the offensive line needs. Replacing Taylor at RT is #2. Reality is though that Norwell and Cann are probably gone so at least one Guard is #3.

Urbz loves Norwell so I could see him trying to resign Norwell

Jack is playing out of position but when I watch him run he just looks like he's hurt or injured.  He just looks slow and he's never looked like that before.  I wonder if he has a nagging injury that he's just not telling the staff about like Minshew did

I wouldn't be against that. For the right price. I just doubt we should offer as much as is liable to want.
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#45

(12-02-2021, 10:28 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 09:41 AM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: I cannot state more emphatically that Warhop being replaced is the #1 priority for the offensive line needs. Replacing Taylor at RT is #2. Reality is though that Norwell and Cann are probably gone so at least one Guard is #3.

Urbz loves Norwell so I could see him trying to resign Norwell

Jack is playing out of position but when I watch him run he just looks like he's hurt or injured.  He just looks slow and he's never looked like that before.  I wonder if he has a nagging injury that he's just not telling the staff about like Minshew did

Norwell was under contract through next season.  It was Urbz who renegotiated a shorter deal.  I think it is safe to say that Norwell is not in their future plans.
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#46

(12-04-2021, 09:47 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 10:28 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Urbz loves Norwell so I could see him trying to resign Norwell

Jack is playing out of position but when I watch him run he just looks like he's hurt or injured.  He just looks slow and he's never looked like that before.  I wonder if he has a nagging injury that he's just not telling the staff about like Minshew did

Norwell was under contract through next season.  It was Urbz who renegotiated a shorter deal.  I think it is safe to say that Norwell is not in their future plans.

Agreed. If he wanted to keep Norwell, he would've extended him instead of re-negotiating a shorter deal.
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#47

Last night was rough for Jordan Davis. There’s no way I’d use a first on a running stuffing NT who doesn’t offer anything in the passing game.
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#48

(12-05-2021, 07:51 AM)HolsterHusto Wrote: Last night was rough for Jordan Davis. There’s no way I’d use a first on a running stuffing NT who doesn’t offer anything in the passing game.
At this rate, looking like Hutchinson, Thibs or Jameson.
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#49
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2021, 09:47 AM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(12-05-2021, 07:51 AM)HolsterHusto Wrote: Last night was rough for Jordan Davis. There’s no way I’d use a first on a running stuffing NT who doesn’t offer anything in the passing game.

Yeah, he has an endurance problem. If we can't get Thibs or Hutch we have to take Neal, dude has all the tools to be a dominant tackle at the next level.  Crazy a guy his size can move like that.

(12-04-2021, 09:47 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 10:28 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Urbz loves Norwell so I could see him trying to resign Norwell

Jack is playing out of position but when I watch him run he just looks like he's hurt or injured.  He just looks slow and he's never looked like that before.  I wonder if he has a nagging injury that he's just not telling the staff about like Minshew did

Norwell was under contract through next season.  It was Urbz who renegotiated a shorter deal.  I think it is safe to say that Norwell is not in their future plans.
Yeas, because he wasn't living up to his contract and was overpaid. His cap hit for this coming up next year was something like 20 + mil. He didn't have to agree to it, he knew he wouldn't get that anywhere.  I don't think that will have any barring on coming back here or not.  All depends on the offer
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#50

The Davis talk with our first rounder was always silly. You don't take a non pass rushing lineman in the top 10 when those guys (albeit maybe not quite as good) are readily available in the middle of the draft or very cheaply in trades as we have proven with Hamilton and Brown. They are also always very cheap in free agency.
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#51
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2021, 10:56 AM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(12-05-2021, 10:34 AM)Upper Wrote: The Davis talk with our first rounder was always silly. You don't take a non pass rushing lineman in the top 10 when those guys (albeit maybe not quite as good) are readily available in the middle of the draft or very cheaply in trades as we have proven with Hamilton and Brown. They are also always very cheap in free agency.

If you feel he can be elite like a Vince Wilfork, Part Williams, or a Ngata, yes they are worth a top 10 pick especially in a 3-4 defense.  Hamilton has been decent this year but nothing special. Davis looks to have elite potential but he needs better conditioning
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#52

Decent nothing special is perfectly fine at NT. Use your elite picks and big cap hits elsewhere.
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#53
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2021, 12:40 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(12-05-2021, 07:51 AM)HolsterHusto Wrote: Last night was rough for Jordan Davis. There’s no way I’d use a first on a running stuffing NT who doesn’t offer anything in the passing game.

He looked "gassed" early in the game. Both his teammate Devonte Wyatt and Alabama's Phidarian Mathis had much more productive outings and they both should be taken early in the draft as NT's as well. I thought it was very concerning how Davis ran out of gas so early. I wonder if he was under the weather or something? He didn't look like that the other times I saw him.

If we pick at #3 and there is absolutely no trade down scenario, the 3 guys I consider drafting are Aiden Hutchinson, Kayvon Thibodeaux and Jameson Williams. No one else.
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#54

It's official.
#1 Alabama vs. #4 Cincinnati
#2 Michigan vs. #3 Georgia

What a match up in that Alabama/Cincinnati game. My #1 rated WR (Jameson Williams) vs. my #1 rated CB (Ahmad Gardner) and my #4 CB (Coby Bryant.) I can't wait! With Metchie out with a torn ACL, Williams is gonna be double teamed all day long.

Michigan and Georgia could go either way.
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#55

(12-05-2021, 12:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(12-05-2021, 07:51 AM)HolsterHusto Wrote: Last night was rough for Jordan Davis. There’s no way I’d use a first on a running stuffing NT who doesn’t offer anything in the passing game.

He looked "gassed" early in the game. Both his teammate Devonte Wyatt and Alabama's Phidarian Mathis had much more productive outings and they both should be taken early in the draft as NT's as well. I thought it was very concerning how Davis ran out of gas so early. I wonder if he was under the weather or something? He didn't look like that the other times I saw him.

If we pick at #3 and there is absolutely no trade down scenario, the 3 guys I consider drafting are Aiden Hutchinson, Kayvon Thibodeaux and Jameson Williams. No one else.

I like Williams but not at 3, he does most of his work from the slot .  If we trade back I'd be more than happy with him though.
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#56

(12-05-2021, 09:43 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(12-05-2021, 07:51 AM)HolsterHusto Wrote: Last night was rough for Jordan Davis. There’s no way I’d use a first on a running stuffing NT who doesn’t offer anything in the passing game.

Yeah, he has an endurance problem. If we can't get Thibs or Hutch we have to take Neal, dude has all the tools to be a dominant tackle at the next level.  Crazy a guy his size can move like that.

(12-04-2021, 09:47 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: Norwell was under contract through next season.  It was Urbz who renegotiated a shorter deal.  I think it is safe to say that Norwell is not in their future plans.
Yeas, because he wasn't living up to his contract and was overpaid.  His cap hit for this coming up next year was something like 20 + mil. He didn't have to agree to it, he knew he wouldn't get that anywhere.  I don't think that will have any barring on coming back here or not.  All depends on the offer

Why not keep the second year of the contract but at a fairer price?  Why not keep a second year, but have no guaranteed money with it?  Why not offer an extension last year?  It doesn't make any sense to shorten the contract of someone that you want to extend.  They clearly only wanted him as a stopgap.  Norwell is not in their future plans.
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#57
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2021, 02:08 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(12-05-2021, 01:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: It's official.
#1 Alabama vs. #4 Cincinnati
#2 Michigan vs. #3 Georgia

What a match up in that Alabama/Cincinnati game. My #1 rated WR (Jameson Williams) vs. my #1 rated CB (Ahmad Gardner) and my #4 CB (Coby Bryant.) I can't wait! With Metchie out with a torn ACL, Williams is gonna be double teamed all day long.

Michigan and Georgia could go either way.

Gardner vs Williams is one matchup I was hoping to see.  Williams couldn't do anything against Elam let's see how he does against another good corner in Gardner

(12-05-2021, 02:00 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote:
(12-05-2021, 09:43 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Yeah, he has an endurance problem. If we can't get Thibs or Hutch we have to take Neal, dude has all the tools to be a dominant tackle at the next level.  Crazy a guy his size can move like that.

Yeas, because he wasn't living up to his contract and was overpaid.  His cap hit for this coming up next year was something like 20 + mil. He didn't have to agree to it, he knew he wouldn't get that anywhere.  I don't think that will have any barring on coming back here or not.  All depends on the offer

Why not keep the second year of the contract but at a fairer price?  Why not keep a second year, but have no guaranteed money with it?  Why not offer an extension last year?  It doesn't make any sense to shorten the contract of someone that you want to extend.  They clearly only wanted him as a stopgap.  Norwell is not in their future plans.
They wasn't interested in extending him before the season because he hasn't lives up to it.  He has played better this year so it wouldn't surprise me if they now decide to keep him.
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#58

(12-05-2021, 01:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(12-05-2021, 12:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: He looked "gassed" early in the game. Both his teammate Devonte Wyatt and Alabama's Phidarian Mathis had much more productive outings and they both should be taken early in the draft as NT's as well. I thought it was very concerning how Davis ran out of gas so early. I wonder if he was under the weather or something? He didn't look like that the other times I saw him.

If we pick at #3 and there is absolutely no trade down scenario, the 3 guys I consider drafting are Aiden Hutchinson, Kayvon Thibodeaux and Jameson Williams. No one else.

I like Williams but not at 3, he does most of his work from the slot .  If we trade back I'd be more than happy with him though.

Who cares where he does his damage from? He's explosive and we don't have a decent receiver on our roster. I just don't understand why you would knock a guy, because they make big plays from the slot? At this point, I don't care if we would line him up as a tackle eligible, as long as he plays like he's been playing for the Tide this season. He's fast, has good hands and runs good enough routes to get the job done. 

Ideally, we would trade back a bit and get him. That's what I'm praying for, but if we're stuck at #3 with no way to trade back and Hutchinson and Thibodeaux are gone, I see no other player worthy of that high of a pick.
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#59

The knock on both Jefferson and Elijah Moore were that they were slot only players in college...
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#60
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2021, 04:34 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(12-05-2021, 04:22 PM)Upper Wrote: The knock on both Jefferson and Elijah Moore were that they were slot only players in college...

I wouldn't taken either at 3rd overall either. [BLEEP] much as I liked both.  JJ is a different animal now but nobody thought he was going to be arguably the best WR in the league.  Both weren't even taken in the top 20.  I'm gonna see what he does in the playoffs

(12-05-2021, 04:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(12-05-2021, 01:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I like Williams but not at 3, he does most of his work from the slot .  If we trade back I'd be more than happy with him though.

Who cares where he does his damage from? He's explosive and we don't have a decent receiver on our roster. I just don't understand why you would knock a guy, because they make big plays from the slot? At this point, I don't care if we would line him up as a tackle eligible, as long as he plays like he's been playing for the Tide this season. He's fast, has good hands and runs good enough routes to get the job done. 

Ideally, we would trade back a bit and get him. That's what I'm praying for, but if we're stuck at #3 with no way to trade back and Hutchinson and Thibodeaux are gone, I see no other player worthy of that high of a pick.

I do,  not taking a slot WR at 3 when there are other elite talents there.  That slot is where Viska and MJ are best at if there is a threat on the outside
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