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Quote:We'd have to change the country's name to The United Prisons of America

 

Shut up convict.

Quote:For people that agree with legalizing drugs, answer this.


What useful purpose does crack serve?

Well.. financial gain is one.. You can stuck all the teeth that you lose under your pillow for the tooth fairy..


Health benefits as well.. Great weight loss plan..

Quote:We'd have to change the country's name to The United Prisons of America

Shouldn't it already be that? More people in prison per capita than anywhere else in the world and it's not even close.

Quote:For people that agree with legalizing drugs, answer this.


What useful purpose does crack serve?

Zero the same can be said for potatoe chips. For the same reason I don't think the government has business in dictating what adults partake in their own home.


Again I'm for decriminalization, prosecute the crime regardless of influence but to say we have to outlaw blank or everyone will do it is a false premise proven through prohibition.

Quote:For people that agree with legalizing drugs, answer this.


What useful purpose does crack serve?

Does it matter what use it has? I wouldn't use most, if any, of the "hard drugs", but who am I to say that Billy down the street can't do what he wants?

Quote:Shut up convict.

Hell.. I bet half of us here have sat our happy [BLEEP] in jail for at least a couple days.. You can yell at a cop and get locked in con college..

Quote:Zero the same can be said for potatoe chips. For the same reason I don't think the government has business in dictating what adults partake in their own home.


Again I'm for decriminalization, prosecute the crime regardless of influence but to say we have to outlaw blank or everyone will do it is a false premise proven through prohibition.

 

Not true.  Potato chips have some nutritional value.

 

However, what are often the results of someone getting hooked on crack?

Quote:Hell.. I bet half of us here have sat our happy [BAD WORD REMOVED] in jail for at least a couple days.. You can yell at a cop and get locked in con college..

 

I said shut up convict!

Quote:Not true.  Potato chips have some nutritional value.

 

However, what are often the results of someone getting hooked on crack?

 

The same as someone getting hooked on gambling. Should we criminalize gambling (including state lotteries) because some get hooked on it?

Quote:For people that agree with legalizing drugs, answer this.


What useful purpose does crack serve?

None other than to get an intense high and offer some escapism.


Still should be legal.

Quote:Not true. Potato chips have some nutritional value.


However, what are often the results of someone getting hooked on crack?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying any drug has benefits but the choice is theirs to make.


Decriminalization isn't the same as making something legal just refocusing on the real issues, behaviors or violations of real laws.


I'll always argue for less laws, someone over doses on crack I don't see why we need laws saying they can't do that. Just like if someone wants to sell their body for sex we don't need laws saying they can't. If someone wants to end their life we don't need laws saying they cant.


Why are we making so many laws to fix broken people? They break they die less crap for the rest of us to cover.

Quote:Again let me bring crack into your neighborhood and let's see how that works out. I wouldnt even sell it, Id purposely hand it out for free and watch your community burn.

I have two questions for you concerning this post.

 

1.  Have you ever tried crack?

2.  If not would you if it were legal?

 

Nothing sinister about my query, I just looking for perspective.

Quote:We'd have to change the country's name to The United Prisons of America

 

Not a whole lot of sympathy for people that victimize others. We'd already release most of the people from prison if it we were to legalize it.

Quote:Don't get me wrong I'm not saying any drug has benefits but the choice is theirs to make.


Decriminalization isn't the same as making something legal just refocusing on the real issues, behaviors or violations of real laws.


I'll always argue for less laws, someone over doses on crack I don't see why we need laws saying they can't do that. Just like if someone wants to sell their body for sex we don't need laws saying they can't. If someone wants to end their life we don't need laws saying they cant.


Why are we making so many laws to fix broken people? They break they die less crap for the rest of us to cover.

So heartless.


I'm proud of you!

I am conflicted. I am against hard drugs morally, for obviously reasons, but there are plenty of examples of decriminalization of all drugs working out wonderfully. Look at Portugal for example. In the Netherlands they have safe use clinics where you can go and they will administer the drugs for you personally with new, clean needles and keep you safe in a confined room while you are on the trip. And then you come down from the high and leave and go about your day. It sounds so weird for that to be legal, but the results are pretty hard to argue with.

 

As long as you can do these drugs without harming others and without taking welfare I don't see why the government should have any say in it. Obviously, a lot of these drugs have motivational depressant qualities so if you aren't self sustainable enough to feed the habit all by yourself then it's a no go. 

 

Decriminalization and then drug testing for welfare is the best option to me. 

Quote:I've been following the political board here for quite some time, though admittedly without actually participating often, and am curious what everyone's view is on the legalization and taxation of recreational drugs (not just marijuana). I don't remember coming across a similar thread, barring a few comments here and there in unrelated topics. My apologies if this has already been discussed at length somewhere, I completely missed it.

 

Personally, I believe that all "hard drugs" should be legalized and regulated with non-violent drug offenders released from prison. This would free up over 50 billion dollars a year federally and over 40 billion between the states from a combination of lack of expenditure and estimated tax income. It would also cut the number of inmates in this country by almost half. (The average drug conviction costs almost $210,000. $30,619.85/yr to house an inmate with an average drug conviction of 82 months.)

 

On top of everything, ever since ~1970 when the drug war began, the addiction rate has hovered right around 1.5%.

 

So all in all, it's costing almost 100 billion dollars a year to not lower addiction rates, overcrowd prisons, and give cartels all of their power. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any positives here. Anyone care to discuss from either side?

 

Let me know if you'd like sources for any of this, I can dig them up if anyone is interested. I originally found most of this for a college paper a while back.

 

It's a tough debate. Personally I feel like drugs, primarily marijuana, needs to be legalized nationwide. Marijuana alone makes up about 41% - 47% yearly on drug based arrests for possession and producing/distributing. With cocaine, heroin and synthetic drug arrests combined making up the other 59% - 53%. So, you're automatically reducing and eating into most of the arrests with just the marijuana legalization alone. It's economically efficient as well based on what we've seen in Colorado. 

 

Now, when you say we should legalize "hard drugs". You're beginning to tread into some very murky waters that tether around what's ethical and humane and unethical and inhumane. And I think we'd have to draw a line there in the sand. We should still be making arrests on the meth users, meth producers and cocaine buyers and sellers, etc. Those scientifically have been proven to be more mentally and physically taxing on humanity. And, even if you do legalize these drugs. And you cut back on arrests. 

 

Where does that leave us? Now, you're cutting off your right arm and being faced with the potential of cutting off your left arm and one of your legs when you think about the long term effects and ripple effects this can have. Medical insurance will go up for starters. Addiction and treatment rates could change as some people will start down a path that they think they'll enjoy and then decide to stop. The social consequences as well are dangerous. You're talking about the potential of impacting whole communities, families and work places. Socially that won't and shouldn't stand. And the tax payers will have to foot that bill either way.

 

Now, as far as the overall history on the War on Drugs. To me, it's mired in inequality. It's pretty clear law enforcement agencies are just like fishermen. You go to your hot spots for activity because you know you'll catch something. It's pretty common. Most places that get targeted just so happen to be poor communities and minority communities. This isn't a matter of opinion. It's now fact. Statistics clearly show that's the case. And it creates a vicious cycle that we all casually like to ignore. You're targeting young poor men in well known communities that are poor and are known for a history of illegal activity. 

 

You make a petty arrest on a young man for minor possession. He now can't get to work because you suspended his license. He now loses said job. Goes into crime to make a living. Goes into the system. Comes out of the system. Has a family. Rinse and repeat. It's been going on for decades. And we're not changing our concepts or approach to any of this. We just keep the cycle going because it's profitable to those who own and dictate the industrial prison complex. Sadly, even if you take all of the minorities out of prison today. We'd still be overwhelmingly overpopulated. As poverty does not discriminate for the most part in our nation's history. 

 

I would like to see a flat law mandated nationwide as well for 1st time, 2nd time and 3rd time offenses when it comes to drug related arrests. I think that's something we should all be able to agree on. There's no way to argue that a 1st time offender or petty marijuana possession should be facing 1 or 2 years of prison time with a chance of good behavior while another 1st time offender for the same exact crime is looking at facing 2 years minimum with no chance of shortening his sentences. 

Quote:Zero the same can be said for potatoe chips. For the same reason I don't think the government has business in dictating what adults partake in their own home.


Again I'm for decriminalization, prosecute the crime regardless of influence but to say we have to outlaw blank or everyone will do it is a false premise proven through prohibition.

 

That's an easy thing to say, but when it affects me, that's when I want the government to do something.   Because as the old saying goes, your freedom should end at the point of my nose.   Freedom is great, but when your freedom infringes on my rights, that's where I leave libertarianism behind. 

 

So that always has to be the fundamental question.  Is the additional freedom you desire going to result in an infringement on my rights.   Is legal pot smoking going to result in more traffic accidents, for example.   Is legal methamphetamine going to result in more robberies and burglaries.  Will legal drug use result in more people going to the hospital, which will indirectly affect me by skewing the supply/demand equation for health care and raise the cost of health care and health insurance.  

 

It's easy to say, we ought to let people do what they want in their own homes, but what if it winds up affecting me?  

Quote:That's an easy thing to say, but when it affects me, that's when I want the government to do something.   Because as the old saying goes, your freedom should end at the point of my nose.   Freedom is great, but when your freedom infringes on my rights, that's where I leave libertarianism behind. 

 

So that always has to be the fundamental question.  Is the additional freedom you desire going to result in an infringement on my rights.   Is legal pot smoking going to result in more traffic accidents, for example.   Is legal methamphetamine going to result in more robberies and burglaries.  Will legal drug use result in more people going to the hospital, which will indirectly affect me by skewing the supply/demand equation for health care and raise the cost of health care and health insurance.  

 

It's easy to say, we ought to let people do what they want in their own homes, but what if it winds up affecting me?  

 

I doubt legal pot will result in more traffic accidents. The pot smokers I know would never drive stoned. It's not like alcohol where you feel like you're in control when you aren't.


 

Robberies and burglaries are the result of the high cost of meth because it's illegal. Legalizing it should reduce crime. Same with heroin.


 

The health insurance problem is the result of government interfering in private industry. If hospitals were free to turn away drug-overdosed people there would be even less cost than now and lower insurance premiums. 
You are also assuming that there would be more people using dangerous drugs. Do you smoke? Why not if it's legal? There would probably be a slight increase, but that would be counterbalanced by less people hospitalized because of the lack of quality control in street drugs. EDIT: And without a motive for getting people hooked there would be no pushers to encourage people (teens) to start.


I'm with Eric on this topic. It shouldn't be against the law, but businesses should be free to turn away druggies, and they should be held fully responsible for any crime they commit under the influence.

The problem I see with most people on here regarding this argument is that we're overlooking the potential harm and effects it can have on society. I come from a not so clean family. Most people do. Some of us on here may have personally dealt with addiction and overcame it. Hell, some of us on here right now could very well be battling an addiction as I type this out. We can throw statistics this and statistics that out there all we want. We can talk numbers and percentages. But what about the social and societal consequences of this much freedom and legalization? 

 

My biggest fears and concerns is the vicious cycle that this can have on parents, friends and children for generations to come. We're all products of our environment. Again, we're getting into some very murky waters when it comes to ethics and morals here and it will steam and branch further down the paths of many lives outside of just someone wanting to willingly and legally "get high" with their poison of choice. You're also making it easier for peer pressure to do it's job. We've all been there. Some of us try it and move on. Some of us try it and end up dead in a ditch. 

 

When people are raised around a person that's addicted or abusing any illegal or legal substance. It can have harmful effects on them. A lot of it is psychological as well. The old "Monkey See, Monkey Do" saying comes into play here. Just think about that. Some people out there right now, regardless of the law, they risk it ALL to "get high" at the expense of the thoughts, feelings, finances, future and mental health of those around them. That's not fair to them. When you start normalizing and legalizing "hard drugs" you're setting society up for a dangerous, and I do mean dangerous path for many generations to come. 

 

Again, really think about that. Not just facts, statistics and figures when it comes to prison and drug use. Think about the long term effects this can have. Now, that's not to say I am for the current way of our Industrial Prison Complex. Yes, it needs to be reformed. It needs to be approached differently. But, on the other side of the coin. We cannot begin to normalize and legalize something as pivotal and dynamic as this. It reeks of moral decay or decline. 

Quote:The problem I see with most people on here regarding this argument is that we're overlooking the potential harm and effects it can have on society. I come from a not so clean family. Most people do. Some of us on here may have personally dealt with addiction and overcame it. Hell, some of us on here right now could very well be battling an addiction as I type this out. We can throw statistics this and statistics that out there all we want. We can talk numbers and percentages. But what about the social and societal consequences of this much freedom and legalization?


My biggest fears and concerns is the vicious cycle that this can have on parents, friends and children for generations to come. We're all products of our environment. Again, we're getting into some very murky waters when it comes to ethics and morals here and it will steam and branch further down the paths of many lives outside of just someone wanting to willingly and legally "get high" with their poison of choice. You're also making it easier for peer pressure to do it's job. We've all been there. Some of us try it and move on. Some of us try it and end up dead in a ditch.


When people are raised around a person that's addicted or abusing any illegal or legal substance. It can have harmful effects on them. A lot of it is psychological as well. The old "Monkey See, Monkey Do" saying comes into play here. Just think about that. Some people out there right now, regardless of the law, they risk it ALL to "get high" at the expense of the thoughts, feelings, finances, future and mental health of those around them. That's not fair to them. When you start normalizing and legalizing "hard drugs" you're setting society up for a dangerous, and I do mean dangerous path for many generations to come.


Again, really think about that. Not just facts, statistics and figures when it comes to prison and drug use. Think about the long term effects this can have. Now, that's not to say I am for the current way of our Industrial Prison Complex. Yes, it needs to be reformed. It needs to be approached differently. But, on the other side of the coin. We cannot begin to normalize and legalize something as pivotal and dynamic as this. It reeks of moral decay or decline.

The problem is the government say that drugs are illegal for the safety of the inhabitants yet the most dangerous substances of all are legal and cause many more deaths than the illegal ones.


I don't see why any government should be able to tell me what I can or can't put into my own body.