Quote:Legalising drugs doesn't mean it has to be a free for all.
There will be a lot of teething problems of course but if you take the model for how alcohol is sold and regulated I think you can see that it isn't that bad.
Let's take MDMA for example and apply it to the way alcohol is sold i.e ensure the products sold are high quality, that its very difficult for children to buy, that overuse in a public place is illegal, use driving is banned. It can be bought in used in certain places as long as they have a license etc etc.
The result would be an extremely safe product being sold. You ensure the product is high quality and not filled with bad stuff like the dealers put into it which is what actually kills people. Also keeps people out of jail who did nothing wrong other than want to have a good time.
It isn't difficult for teenagers to get alcohol, maybe 20-30 years ago it was, but there is no shortage of adults and permissive parents willing to get it for them. Also, we have big problems with alcoholism, and those costs are passed along to everyone else.
The legalization thing works in a bubble but we don't live in a bubble. Our choices do not just effect ourselves and other people, even strangers, pay the cost.
Quote:What's to stop any of that from happening now? A school teacher, server, social services councilor, etc can all choose to partake (and some already do) in illicit drugs now whether or not it's illegal.
It could, but thats not the point...
Quote:Exactly, that's why differences of opinion over behavior should not be criminalized. I thought we were passed this notion once homosexuality went mainstream, but I guess not. Doing the drugs should be a personal choice, actions taken when under the influence or sober should be personal responsibility.
sometimes safety and the health and welfare of people take precedence over individual wants...If a world is created in which people can legally use mind altering drugs, the safety of the public is an issue, and so is the health and welfare of anyone and everyone the people blasted out of their mind come into contact with...Now I'm not saying everyone will be blasted out of their minds and dangerous but the potential is there...
Quote:sometimes safety and the health and welfare of people take precedence over individual wants...If a world is created in which people can legally use mind altering drugs, the safety of the public is an issue, and so is the health and welfare of anyone and everyone the people blasted out of their mind come into contact with...Now I'm not saying everyone will be blasted out of their minds and dangerous but the potential is there...
The most dangerous drugs in the world are the legal ones.
Quote:sometimes safety and the health and welfare of people take precedence over individual wants...If a world is created in which people can legally use mind altering drugs, the safety of the public is an issue, and so is the health and welfare of anyone and everyone the people blasted out of their mind come into contact with...Now I'm not saying everyone will be blasted out of their minds and dangerous but the potential is there...
Absolutely, so turn in your alcohol, tobacco, and firearms immediately, public safety is more important. Right? Or is it just the things of which you disapprove?
Quote:Absolutely, so turn in your alcohol, tobacco, and firearms immediately, public safety is more important. Right? Or is it just the things of which you disapprove?
I said sometimes...and I should have said some things too such as mind altering drugs
Quote:I said sometimes...and I should have said some things too such as mind altering drugs
Name one "recreational" drug legal or otherwise that doesn't alter the mind.
Quote:Name one "recreational" drug legal or otherwise that doesn't alter the mind.
I was referring to the so called :hard drugs" such as LSD, meth, magic mushrooms, and so on...not so much things like percocet, vikoden, weed, and so on...should have mentioned that
Quote:I was referring to the so called :hard drugs" such as LSD, meth, magic mushrooms, and so on...not so much things like percocet, vikoden, weed, and so on...should have mentioned that
What's the difference. Don't they all alter the mind? I mean after a surgical procedure that I underwent I was prescribed Vicodin and took exactly 2 out of the 20 or so pills that were given to me. I stopped taking them just because of what it did to my mind.
Quote:I was referring to the so called :hard drugs" such as LSD, meth, magic mushrooms, and so on...not so much things like percocet, vikoden, weed, and so on...should have mentioned that
LSD and Shrooms ain't in the same league as meth. How many people die from LSD or shrooms every year? The answer is very very low.
Quote:What's the difference. Don't they all alter the mind? I mean after a surgical procedure that I underwent I was prescribed Vicodin and took exactly 2 out of the 20 or so pills that were given to me. I stopped taking them just because of what it did to my mind.
some to the point of altered awareness of the surroundings, perceptions, and feelings as well as sensations that seem real but are not...I would not like to have to have to interact with anyone in that frame of mind, or have my family especially my 5 year old granddaughter have to interact with people in that state of mind simply because people can get that way...no thanks, you go ahead and put your family and grand children in that environment, but I certainly won't
Quote:LSD and Shrooms ain't in the same league as meth. How many people die from LSD or shrooms every year? The answer is very very low.
once again thats not the point. people have bad trips on shrooms/lsd and it can be quite nasty...meth/cocaine/ crack/methamphetamines and everything else other than pain meds have any place in my world and I dont want my 5 year old granddaughter to grow up thinking its cool to get blasted out of her mind every day
Quote:once again thats not the point. people have bad trips on shrooms/lsd and it can be quite nasty...meth/cocaine/ crack/methamphetamines and everything else other than pain meds have any place in my world and I dont want my 5 year old granddaughter to grow up thinking its cool to get blasted out of her mind every day
Of course its the point. The actual danger coming from these drugs is miniscule compared to legal drugs. Sure bad trips can happen when used incorrectly or when used with a lack of knowledge, same as everything.
Why would your granddaughter grow up thinking getting blasted out of her mind is cool?
Quote:The most dangerous drugs in the world are the legal ones.
Sure but doesn't that imply that legalizing more of the dangerous drugs would only result in even more deaths.
Quote:Sure but doesn't that imply that legalizing more of the dangerous drugs would only result in even more deaths.
It isn't an argument at all really. JackCity is dodging the issue by saying "but this is worse."
Quote:I said sometimes...and I should have said some things too such as mind altering drugs
Right, you get to decide the line. How nice. For you anyway, the hell with the 40% of our society in the pokey for drug possession and use collars. Those scum deserve to have their lives ruined for being immoral junkies.
Quote:It isn't an argument at all really. JackCity is dodging the issue by saying "but this is worse."
Im surprised it isnt couched that way since eeeeeeeevil Big Pharm makes all those nasty profits off of the legal ones.
Quote:once again thats not the point. people have bad trips on shrooms/lsd and it can be quite nasty...meth/cocaine/ crack/methamphetamines and everything else other than pain meds have any place in my world and I dont want my 5 year old granddaughter to grow up thinking its cool to get blasted out of her mind every day
So you're abrogating your role as her teacher and leaving it to the government then? Sad.
Quote:Sure but doesn't that imply that legalizing more of the dangerous drugs would only result in even more deaths.
Well in many cases legalizing and regulating them would remove a lot of the danger by ensuring the products are high quality. Many deaths are from the impurity of the drugs as the dealers and providers cut them with different substances. MDMA in its pure form is not dangerous at all, the problem lies with dealers putting dangerous substances in with the drug to make more money.
Quote:It isn't an argument at all really. JackCity is dodging the issue by saying "but this is worse."
I don't think I'm dodging the issue at all.