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I saw this on Facebook the other day.  I have not confirmed these statistics, but I did some browsing online and did seem legit based on the few articles I read.  Anyways, assuming this is true and even factoring in our larger population, should this statistic startle you?  I have to admit, it made me think that we probably aren't doing things right here in the US.  There are other factors, but does this stat shock you?  And does this back up those who argue policing in the US is out of control?  That we need to reevaluate how officers are being trained?  What say you?

 

 

In my opinion, people also conduct themselves a lot better in the UK.. yeah the UK has its problems too, but this country (as much as I love it) has become an armpit in the last 20 some odd years.. Do you blame the police? Like hell..

There's so many factors in play here but on the surface yes we have a problem with how the civilians and police interact here.

Quote:In my opinion, people also conduct themselves a lot better in the UK.. yeah the UK has its problems too, but this country (as much as I love it) has become an armpit in the last 20 some odd years.. Do you blame the police? Like hell..

 

52 deaths in a 115 YEARS.  369 in 115 DAYS.  Come on, that does not concern you in a big way?  Those are staggering figures.  Yes, I do blame the police.  They aren't solely to blame, it is much more complicated then that, but we have to start somewhere.

Quote:52 deaths in a 115 YEARS.  369 in 115 DAYS.  Come on, that does not concern you in a big way?  Those are staggering figures.  Yes, I do blame the police.  They aren't solely to blame, it is much more complicated then that, but we have to start somewhere.

 

No.. This concerns me much, much more..

 



 

Quote:No.. This concerns me much, much more..

 



 

 

I guess I'm kind of baffled.  It isn't a competition.  I think that amount of deaths with our citizens should be a huge concern.  You can be pro cop and still think those numbers are staggering.  

 

In 2014, 127 cops died while on duty.  19 of those were from a heart attack.  2 were accidental.  That leave 106 for the year which is awful.  

Quote:I guess I'm kind of baffled. It isn't a competition. I think that amount of deaths with our citizens should be a huge concern. You can be pro cop and still think those numbers are staggering.

They are staggering, I'm not arguing that at all. What I'm saying is, the police aren't the main problem..

It's Gun Culture.

 

America's solution to gun violence is basically: More guns.   This has lead to the militarization of police.  Because when civilians have guns, police feel they need more guns too.  


Now I'm not advocating an outright gun ban.  I think in the hands of good people, guns are a good thing.  It's just that in the hands of bad people, they're a very bad thing.  I'm sure that people much smarter than me could come up with a solution that helps keep the guns out of the hands of bad people, without taking them from the good people who are responsible.  It's unfortunate we'll probably never see such a solution implemented however.

Quote:They are staggering, I'm not arguing that at all. What I'm saying is, the police aren't the main problem..

 

I think with advancements in technology we are seeing they are a big part of the problem.  There is no main problem.  There are lots of ingredients that add up to a whole.  UK had someone killed once every 2 years.  We have had 3 deaths (roughly) every day.  We need to change the way we train our officers IMO.  You can't ignore those numbers.

 

Of course, there are culture issues as well.  The Eleventh Doctor also brought up relevant points about our culture.  No matter how you slice it, we have a killing problem here in America from the top down.  

Quote:It's Gun Culture.


America's solution to gun violence is basically: More guns. This has lead to the militarization of police. Because when civilians have guns, police feel they need more guns too.


Now I'm not advocating an outright gun ban. I think in the hands of good people, guns are a good thing. It's just that in the hands of bad people, they're a very bad thing. I'm sure that people much smarter than me could come up with a solution that helps keep the guns out of the hands of bad people, without taking them from the good people who are responsible. It's unfortunate we'll probably never see such a solution implemented however.

I agree with this 100%

I'm not sure those numbers are all that accurate, in Northern Ireland alone there was way more deaths then 52 during the conflicts with the IRA and the UK.

Quote:I'm not sure those numbers are all that accurate, in Northern Ireland alone there was way more deaths then 52 during the conflicts with the IRA and the UK.

I'm not sure the situation with the IRA is really the same but it's a point. 

Quote:I'm not sure those numbers are all that accurate, in Northern Ireland alone there was way more deaths then 52 during the conflicts with the IRA and the UK.

 

If you have different information definitely provide it.  

Quote:I'm not sure those numbers are all that accurate, in Northern Ireland alone there was way more deaths then 52 during the conflicts with the IRA and the UK.

 

293 were killed I believe, but I imagine most of those were British Armed forces, and not police.  

Quote:293 were killed I believe, but I imagine most of those were British Armed forces, and not police.  

 

That's my point here we would count armed confrontations as death by police, as where in the UK they don't have posse comitatus or a separation of police and military. It's hard to find hard numbers on death by police versus death by military.

Quote:That's my point here we would count armed confrontations as death by police, as where in the UK they don't have posse comitatus or a separation of police and military. It's hard to find hard numbers on death by police versus death by military.

Our numbers don't include death by military either.  


http://www.killedbypolice.net/


 

Quote: 

 

Corporate news reports of people killed by nonmilitary law enforcement officers, whether in the line of duty or not, and regardless of reason or method. 
Inclusion implies neither wrongdoing nor justification on the part of the person killed or the officer involved. The post merely documents the occurrence of a death. 

Of course going by Wikipedia... the number of deaths by police in the UK is a little higher than 52.  I count 70.  

Quote:Of course going by Wikipedia... the number of deaths by police in the UK is a little higher than 52.  I count 70.  

 

Thanks.  I don't want to dismiss the updated statistic, but I do think the point remains the same.  

Quote:Our numbers don't include death by military either.  

http://www.killedbypolice.net/


 

 

of course not we don't use our military on home soil, posse comitatus prohibits it. We use our police in the way many countries use their military.

I imagine even if you were to include civilian deaths by British armed forces (in police action), you'd find the numbers aren't that much closer.  


Now, there are plenty of justifiable reasons for a police officer to use his weapon.  The problem is that we need to cut down on how often those justifiable reasons occur.