Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:And the other will burn the gas through war and aggressive conflicts. 

Yawn. 

 

You're spitting the talking points out like you're in mid-campaign form.  Congrats. 

Quote:Interesting.  So, nobody who is wealthy earned it in your mind?  Really?

 

Sure they earned it, nobody helped them, no infrastructure paid for by people that benefit in no way from the profits that are hidden to avoid taxes. That's why they will inherit the earth. 

Quote:Yawn. 

 

You're spitting the talking points out like you're in mid-campaign form.  Congrats. 

Why not just admit it, since it is true. 

 

Says the guy that litters his posts with nicknames and name calling straight from the right wing talking heads. Using that juvenile tact in attacking people rather than the ideas. 

Quote:Yes you hate the guy. So very much. This is nothing new. 

 

Many people, including myself, are disappointed he did next to nothing in regards to the things he ran on. What's your point? You still don't like him and what, you think people that are disappointed will start to hate him like you? People thought he might be different than the average guy running for the office. Clearly people were wrong. You guys can enjoy being smug about him not being different all you want but that does not change that people actually thought he would bring change and voted for him for that reason.

 

What's my point? 

 

The guy is a liar.  I think that's a pretty clear point. 

 

I don't hate Obama.  I simply saw him for the empty suit he was leading up to the 2008 election.  But, much like 2008, that fresh new candidate, Hillary Clinton, will be derailed and sent packing by the next empty suit in line the democrats can trot out there.  O'Malley is waiting in the wings for the call. 

 

Smug about him not being different?  You're disappointed that he turned out to be more of an imperial president than his predecessor. 

 

I don't celebrate the fact that I was right about this guy.  I worry for the future of this country because I think what we've experienced over the past 5 years is nothing more than an orchestrated plan.  I worry that the damage done by this administration and the last to restrict our liberty and chip away at our constitutional rights has gotten to the point where there's no way to reverse what they've done. 

 

This president had an opportunity to unify this country in a way none before him possibly could have, and he squandered that, and actually put more of an emphasis on a more antagonistic approach, spinning up racial tensions and trying to pit one economic group against another.  From the New Black Panthers incident in 2008 to the police "acting stupidly" to "If I had a son..." to his tacit repudiation of the tactics being used in Ferguson, if there's a way to unify at times of discord, this guy tends to go the opposite direction creating more turmoil.  He comes by it honestly based on his political philosophy and his background as a "community activist."

 

He opines regularly about income inequality, and his lemming supporters regurgitate it almost instinctively now.  The problem?  The income gaps between the haves and have nots has accelerated under his presidency.  He talks about income equality between men and women while his own administration is guilty of paying women less for the same jobs that men do. 

 

This president had the chance to create a great legacy, and in every possible instance, he took the other path, assuring that he would go down in history as one of the most divisive, incompetent presidents to ever sit behind that desk.  Jimmy Carter is doing cart wheels.

Quote:Why not just admit it, since it is true. 

 

Says the guy that litters his posts with nicknames and name calling straight from the right wing talking heads. Using that juvenile tact in attacking people rather than the ideas. 

 

Because it's simply not true.  Your dear ruler has actually escalated war efforts in the Middle East.  I guess it's okay because he's using drones and not putting troops on the ground (as long as you ignore the fact that he's been forced to redeploy troops to the region).  We're now involved militarily in Yemen, Syria, Libya, Iraq, and Iran.  The foreign policy of this administration has been about as contradictory as you could possibly ask for. 

 

As far as attacking the people over ideas, keep swinging away.  I know it hurts to realize the guy you've been worshiping for the past 6 years is a complete fraud, and not the great unifier you were conned into supporting.  Reality sucks when it slaps you in the face repeatedly for all that time, doesn't it?

Quote:Why is it class warfare when you do something that hurts the rich, but not class warfare when you do something to hurt the poor?

 

Class warfare is referring to politicians building an argument ___ is poor because ____ is rich, so empower government to correct the issue.

 

if you're asking why welfare cuts is not called class warfare then the answer is the same reason giving less charity isn't called theft.

Quote:Sure they earned it, nobody helped them, no infrastructure paid for by people that benefit in no way from the profits that are hidden to avoid taxes. That's why they will inherit the earth. 

 

And that infrastructure just happened?  Government just magically paid for the roads and infrastructure? 

 

Seriously, you've got to have the Occupy talking points tattooed on your forehead or something.

Quote:What's my point?


The guy is a liar. I think that's a pretty clear point.


I don't hate Obama. I simply saw him for the empty suit he was leading up to the 2008 election. But, much like 2008, that fresh new candidate, Hillary Clinton, will be derailed and sent packing by the next empty suit in line the democrats can trot out there. O'Malley is waiting in the wings for the call.


Smug about him not being different? You're disappointed that he turned out to be more of an imperial president than his predecessor.


I don't celebrate the fact that I was right about this guy. I worry for the future of this country because I think what we've experienced over the past 5 years is nothing more than an orchestrated plan. I worry that the damage done by this administration and the last to restrict our liberty and chip away at our constitutional rights has gotten to the point where there's no way to reverse what they've done.


This president had an opportunity to unify this country in a way none before him possibly could have, and he squandered that, and actually put more of an emphasis on a more antagonistic approach, spinning up racial tensions and trying to pit one economic group against another. From the New Black Panthers incident in 2008 to the police "acting stupidly" to "If I had a son..." to his tacit repudiation of the tactics being used in Ferguson, if there's a way to unify at times of discord, this guy tends to go the opposite direction creating more turmoil. He comes by it honestly based on his political philosophy and his background as a "community activist."


He opines regularly about income inequality, and his lemming supporters regurgitate it almost instinctively now. The problem? The income gaps between the haves and have nots has accelerated under his presidency. He talks about income equality between men and women while his own administration is guilty of paying women less for the same jobs that men do.


This president had the chance to create a great legacy, and in every possible instance, he took the other path, assuring that he would go down in history as one of the most divisive, incompetent presidents to ever sit behind that desk. Jimmy Carter is doing cart wheels.

Who is the republican savior and what is his or her grand plan to "save" America? By the way, the most divisive and incompetent president ever was Dubya. Come on man.

Quote:In addition to closing gitmo, changing the way politics is played (seen by some as at least discussing campaign finance reform)

 

To see it was all about handouts and the farcical notion of confiscation and redistribution is just not accurate. There were plenty of reasons to vote for him outside of helping the poor. 

 

He made 2 major foreign policy commitments and 4-5 major economical commitments, that's why I say his campaign was focused on income redistribution and correcting income inequality.

 

note he hasn't kept either foreign policy commitment but has worked endless to bring his economical reforms to light.

 

 

Quote:Because like one person in government actually believes in small government. The GOP can say it all they wont but they do not actually think it or want it. 

 

I agree the GOP has little to no interest in small government, thus my leaving the GOP 2 years ago.

Quote:Class warfare is referring to politicians building an argument ___ is poor because ____ is rich, so empower government to correct the issue.

 

if you're asking why welfare cuts is not called class warfare then the answer is the same reason giving less charity isn't called theft.

 

So then I should support class warfare I suppose.  Don't see why I shouldn't.


I mean I look at how much tax dollars goes to fortune 500 companies, and I don't see why it should.  

Quote:Who is the republican savior and what is his or her grand plan to "save" America? By the way, the most divisive and incompetent president ever was Dubya. Come on man.

 

What qualifies Bush for your rating?  Because you didn't like him? 

 

This president has doubled the deficit in 5 years.  That deficit took more than 200 years to get to $9 trillion when he took office in 2009.  It's now over $18 trillion, and all of that government spending intended to fix the economy has done what?  Create a situation where you've got the lowest labor participation rate in decades, most  new jobs created are part time, and you've got people leaving the job market and simply not being counted at record rates?

 

Obama took over 1/6 of the economy with ObamaCare promising reduced deficits, better coverage, and lower healthcare costs.  The opposite happened.  They created a healthcare crisis and told us how there were between 40 and 50 million uninsured in this country, and that the only way to address that issue was to take over the entire system.  Rather than work on programs to address the uninsured directly, they saw fit to blow it all up.  The end result?  There are still 40 million uninsured who are paying penalties because they don't have health insurance.

 

I could go on and on about why Obama is the worst president in the history of this country, and I'll guarantee that when history does indeed do their evaluation, that will be backed up.  Bush wasn't a good president.  Not even close.  But, Obama has taken lousy to a completely different stratosphere on multiple levels.  It takes a special talent to be that bad. 

 

Who is the republican savior?  There isn't one.  This country is past the point of no return.  There will be a reboot, and when that happens, we'll see who rises from the ashes.

Quote:So then I should support class warfare I suppose.  Don't see why I shouldn't.

The top 20% of all income earners pay nearly 90% of all taxes.  Do you know what the bottom line household income is to qualify  for the top 20%?  About $91,000 for a household.  Is that rich?  Because that's who is being targeted.  That's who is being attacked with class warfare.  Under this president, the middle class has been forced to carry the burden of his policies, and they're disappearing at the highest rate.  The middle class is dying.

Quote:So then I should support class warfare I suppose.  Don't see why I shouldn't.


I mean I look at how much tax dollars goes to fortune 500 companies, and I don't see why it should.  

 

One can stand against both income redistribution and corporate welfare, they are both symptoms of the same problem. Government confiscating from one party to payoff the other party.

Quote:One can stand against both income redistribution and corporate welfare, they are both symptoms of the same problem. Government confiscating from one party to payoff the other party.

Of course they can -- but you'll never see Republican Politicians actually speak out against it.  They'll call of cuts to food stamps and other programs and bring on a surfer guy who happens to be cheating the system as an example of why the $59B social programs needs to be cut -- and then in another breath praise businesses for taking $90B in corporate welfare as 'fairly taking advantage of the system'

 

If you cut food stamps, but leave corporate welfare, is that not class warfare itself?  

Quote:Of course they can -- but you'll never see Republican Politicians actually speak out against it.  They'll call of cuts to food stamps and other programs and bring on a surfer guy who happens to be cheating the system as an example of why the $59B social programs needs to be cut -- and then in another breath praise businesses for taking $90B in corporate welfare as 'fairly taking advantage of the system'

 

If you cut food stamps, but leave corporate welfare, is that not class warfare itself?  

 

You're pushing a narrative that just isn't true:

 

Republican Sens. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., and Pat Toomey, R-Pa., together with Arkansas Democrat Mark Pryor, have proposed a bill to end the ethanol mandate, a blatant boondoggle for agribusiness.

 

Along those same lines, Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, and Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., introduced bills this month to abolish the Export-Import Bank, a government agency that subsidizes U.S. exports

 

Toomey teamed up with Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire to craft a farm-bill amendment that would shrink the sugar program

 

Rep. Mike Pompeo, R-Kan., has proposed a bill to end all energy tax credits

 

Republicans are even joining Democrats in targeting Wall Street’s goodies. Late last year, Congress refused to renew a special bank-bailout provision called the Transaction Account Guarantee. And conservative Sen. David Vitter, R-La., has signed onto a bill with liberal Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, to reign in big banks and discourage them from becoming even bigger.

 

https://www.aei.org/publication/republic...e-welfare/

 

Granted you won't hear most of that on the news, but the narrative doesn't define reality.

Quote:Because it's simply not true. Your dear ruler has actually escalated war efforts in the Middle East. I guess it's okay because he's using drones and not putting troops on the ground (as long as you ignore the fact that he's been forced to redeploy troops to the region). We're now involved militarily in Yemen, Syria, Libya, Iraq, and Iran. The foreign policy of this administration has been about as contradictory as you could possibly ask for.


As far as attacking the people over ideas, keep swinging away. I know it hurts to realize the guy you've been worshiping for the past 6 years is a complete fraud, and not the great unifier you were conned into supporting. Reality sucks when it slaps you in the face repeatedly for all that time, doesn't it?

Keep swinging? I don't have to you just did again.

Quote:The top 20% of all income earners pay nearly 90% of all taxes. Do you know what the bottom line household income is to qualify for the top 20%? About $91,000 for a household. Is that rich? Because that's who is being targeted. That's who is being attacked with class warfare. Under this president, the middle class has been forced to carry the burden of his policies, and they're disappearing at the highest rate. The middle class is dying.

That didn't start with this president it's been happening for a lot longer. His inability to reverse that is disappointing.

Quote:What qualifies Bush for your rating? Because you didn't like him?


This president has doubled the deficit in 5 years. That deficit took more than 200 years to get to $9 trillion when he took office in 2009. It's now over $18 trillion, and all of that government spending intended to fix the economy has done what? Create a situation where you've got the lowest labor participation rate in decades, most new jobs created are part time, and you've got people leaving the job market and simply not being counted at record rates?


Obama took over 1/6 of the economy with ObamaCare promising reduced deficits, better coverage, and lower healthcare costs. The opposite happened. They created a healthcare crisis and told us how there were between 40 and 50 million uninsured in this country, and that the only way to address that issue was to take over the entire system. Rather than work on programs to address the uninsured directly, they saw fit to blow it all up. The end result? There are still 40 million uninsured who are paying penalties because they don't have health insurance.


I could go on and on about why Obama is the worst president in the history of this country, and I'll guarantee that when history does indeed do their evaluation, that will be backed up. Bush wasn't a good president. Not even close. But, Obama has taken lousy to a completely different stratosphere on multiple levels. It takes a special talent to be that bad.


Who is the republican savior? There isn't one. This country is past the point of no return. There will be a reboot, and when that happens, we'll see who rises from the ashes.

You define him solely on his econimcal impact and I suppose that's fair since it's a major thing but at the same time ignore the societal advances many Americans are in favor of just not the ones you agree with.

Quote:What qualifies Bush for your rating?  Because you didn't like him? 

 

This president has doubled the deficit in 5 years.  That deficit took more than 200 years to get to $9 trillion when he took office in 2009.  It's now over $18 trillion, and all of that government spending intended to fix the economy has done what?  Create a situation where you've got the lowest labor participation rate in decades, most  new jobs created are part time, and you've got people leaving the job market and simply not being counted at record rates?

 

Obama took over 1/6 of the economy with ObamaCare promising reduced deficits, better coverage, and lower healthcare costs.  The opposite happened.  They created a healthcare crisis and told us how there were between 40 and 50 million uninsured in this country, and that the only way to address that issue was to take over the entire system.  Rather than work on programs to address the uninsured directly, they saw fit to blow it all up.  The end result?  There are still 40 million uninsured who are paying penalties because they don't have health insurance.

 

I could go on and on about why Obama is the worst president in the history of this country, and I'll guarantee that when history does indeed do their evaluation, that will be backed up.  Bush wasn't a good president.  Not even close.  But, Obama has taken lousy to a completely different stratosphere on multiple levels.  It takes a special talent to be that bad. 

 

Who is the republican savior?  There isn't one.  This country is past the point of no return.  There will be a reboot, and when that happens, we'll see who rises from the ashes.

 

 

 

Shortly after Bush took over the presidency in 2000, Alan Greenspan went before congress and testified that he was afraid the government was going to liquidate all its debt too quickly, and that would destabilize the world economy!  Seriously.   That happened.  I was watching it on CSPAN.  We were on a path to eliminating the national debt!  

 

So where were we when Bush finally left office?   Do you remember when Secretary of the Treasury Paulsen and Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bernanke went before Congress begging for $700 billion, no strings attached, to save the economy from collapse?  And they had to have it that day!   That happened during the Bush administration.  In 2008. 

 

Bush put this country into wars in the middle east that cost us trillions of dollars.  He put through the prescription drug benefit that will also cost us trillions of dollars.   Bush took office with the federal budget in surplus and left office with the worst financial crisis we've had since 1929. 

 

As for the increased debt load we've taken on during the Obama administration, a a lot of that debt is because of the economic contraction that began with that financial crisis in 2008.  Government tax revenues plummeted in the first year of the Obama administration.   2008 federal tax receipts: 2.5 trillion.   2009 federal tax receipts: 2.1 trillion.  Now, should Obama have cut spending in response to that?  That would only have caused an even worse recession.   So Bush basically handed Obama a trillion dollar deficit, and the Republicans hung it around Obama's neck politically, when he didn't have any hand in causing it. 

 

Bush came into office with the federal budget in surplus and left it with a trillion dollar deficit. unfunded wars in the middle east, and the worst economic crisis in 80 years.   Man.   That is a truly pathetic record.  

 

Try to remember 2008, okay?  Obama took office in 2009. 

Quote:The top 20% of all income earners pay nearly 90% of all taxes. Do you know what the bottom line household income is to qualify for the top 20%? About $91,000 for a household. Is that rich? Because that's who is being targeted. That's who is being attacked with class warfare. Under this president, the middle class has been forced to carry the burden of his policies, and they're disappearing at the highest rate. The middle class is dying.

You realize the middle class has been dying based on supply side economics, right? Obama has only been in office for 6 years...


The issues about the middle class have been going on for a long time, since the 80s.


The percentage of taxes paid by the top as opposed to the bottom earners is a red hearing used to distract from the actual issues.


Part of the reason for our huge deficits is because the revenue stream of the federal government is being constricted. However much the rich are paying on terms of the overall pie is not the point.


The point is that the pie is getting smaller.


You also fail to realize that while benefits of the pie going to the middle and the poor is getting sliced thinner. While the top are eating up double helpings of that ever smaller pie.


Every corporate tax cut, every corporate subsidy, every corporate no bid private contract, every cut in the capital gains tax is a redistribution of wealth from middle class to the rich.


But these are things the talking points ignore and many are not inquisitive enough to logically think it through.