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So need wise we need a pure pass rusher to improve the defence. We're being mocked pretty much across the board with Fowler who I really like.

 

I'm by now means a brilliant evaluator, but from what I've seen and taking on board all the analysis I've read, it seems as though Beasley is a better pure pass rusher, although limited in the run game where as Fowler is pretty much above average at most things while not being incredible at anything specifically. Obviously due to his size he's by far the best edge rusher against the run.

 

I guess my question is, are we more in need of a pure pass rusher (Beasley) who is more likely to get double digit sacks, or what many, including myself believe to be a better and more versatile LEO (Fowler Jr)? And I purely mean from a need perspective.

 

Would also be good to hear what others perceive their strengths and weaknesses to be.

 

Also... given we're so in need of an elite pass rusher, are people in agreement that it would need to take a substantial offer to get us to trade down, especially out of the top 10 where I feel there is a pretty large drop off in talent

Fowler could be a double digit sack guy too, he has the size, the skill, and the motor to do it, and if he is not, you know you have a guy who can drop in coverage and stop the run. Where as Beasley if he is not a sack guy, he may not be able to stop the run or drop in coverage and thats how you end up with bust, being as he we would prob be taking him at 3.

 

Look at khalil mack last year he was looked at as being a great pass rusher, who can drop and cover with a motor, he ended being one of the best defensive rookies even tho he only had 4 sacks, but since he does every thing very good he's year was looked at as successful. 

 

Fowler Jr is a bigger better Mack, give me that guy any day of the week

Quote:Fowler could be a double digit sack guy too, he has the size, the skill, and the motor to do it, and if he is not, you know you have a guy who can drop in coverage and stop the run. Where as Beasley if he is not a sack guy, he may not be able to stop the run or drop in coverage and thats how you end up with bust, being as he we would prob be taking him at 3.


Look at khalil mack last year he was looked at as being a great pass rusher, who can drop and cover with a motor, he ended being one of the best defensive rookies even tho he only had 4 sacks, but since he does every thing very good he's year was looked at as successful.


Fowler Jr is a bigger better Mack, give me that guy any day of the week

I wouldn't go as far to say "better" than Mack.

Quote:I wouldn't go as far to say "better" than Mack.

Hard to judge, being that Mack played at Buffalo in a small conf and Fowler did it in the SEC and playing vs big schools like FSU more games, but they are similar versatile  prospects 

First time I saw Mack he jumped off the tape. His quickness, power, and arsenal of moves was great. Fowler looks like a good prospect but not quite on Mack's level IMO.

I was originally on the Fowler bandwagon but I am definitely warming up to Beasley. His size was a concern but to see him show up at the combine and 250 and still run a 4.5 was impressive. It really depends on what type of player you want. I think Beasley could be a Von Miller type and Fowler would give you a Suggs/Mack type of guy.


It also seems to be that Fowler would be better utilized being moved around vs just lining up at RDE. I envision Fowler would be used sort of like Clay Matthews where as Beasley would put his hand in the dirt and just go after the QB every play.

Why do people think that Fowler is/or is going to be better at coverage than Beasley? Beasley was a tight end and then a linebacker before he settled in at defensive end for his Sophomore season. I am pretty sure he has a little knowledge and experience at coverage from both angles. If anything that could be a plus to me. 

 

Not to mention Beasley's lateral movement skills embarrass Fowler's...I think Beasley would easily be better in coverage down the road, in addition to being a much better pass rusher right now (which is why we're drafting them after all). 

I think Fowler is the second best defensive prospect in this draft outside of Williams

Quote:I wouldn't go as far to say "better" than Mack.

I wouldn't either. But I do see a favorable comparison between the two guys. Motor, aggressiveness, nastiness,neither are/were the most refined pass rushers but play with an attitude.


I like both Beasley and Fowler but I definitely do not love either guy as much as some people do.


Beasley in my opinion is completely reliant on his explosive first step to win 1v1, if he doesn't win off his initial burst he usually gets beat. Even when his get off is great he can often times be pushed up field by athletic OT's who are athletic enough to slide out and deal with the speed rush. He's shown a decent up and under move, works very well against less athletic OT's, and tries a spin occasionally but its not very effective. In run support he's average while playing at DE and doesn't play up to his 35 reps at the combine. He also doesn't disengage very well and can get moved. What worries me the most about Beasley is his reliance on that first step to win because when it gets shut down he doesn't seem to have much else. Obviously the OT'S in the NFL are pretty athletic for the most part.


Fowler is a guy that doesn't do any one thing spectacular but he's a very good football player. What I like the most about Fowler are his hands. He uses them well even though quite frankly I don't think he knows how to win with them. It looks like he has strong hands but like I said he rarely wins 1v1 with a pass rush move so he relies on strength and shedding the OT. While Fowler only did 19 reps at the combine I would say he plays stronger than that. Lastly what I really like about Fowler is his nastiness, it looks like he wants to hurt people when he's playing the game. I don't get that same feeling from Beasley or Gregory. What scares me about Fowler is that he doesn't win 1v1 with great hands or pass rush moves very much.


IMO both guys have bust potential just as much as everybody else in the draft. I think it comes down to projecting into the future. Most people have their preference already and I don't think much is gonna change that.


I like Fowler Jr more than Beasley based solely on what I think Fowler can and will turn in to. But I completely understand why many like Beasley as well.


This is just from watching cut ups of the guys from Draftbreakdown. I don't pretend to know everything, I'm just an armchair scout like the rest of you guys.

Quote:Fowler could be a double digit sack guy too, he has the size, the skill, and the motor to do it, and if he is not, you know you have a guy who can drop in coverage and stop the run. Where as Beasley if he is not a sack guy, he may not be able to stop the run or drop in coverage and thats how you end up with bust, being as he we would prob be taking him at 3.

 

Look at khalil mack last year he was looked at as being a great pass rusher, who can drop and cover with a motor, he ended being one of the best defensive rookies even tho he only had 4 sacks, but since he does every thing very good he's year was looked at as successful. 

 

Fowler Jr is a bigger better Mack, give me that guy any day of the week

lmao. no he is not. Mack pretty much did everything better than Fowler in college while putting up better combine numbers.

 

As for the question, Beasley is clearly the best pass rushing prospect in the draft and honestly it's not close. If we take Fowler or Gregory it will just be another top 3 bust for us while Beasley goes on to have double digit sacks and win DROY in his first year.

Lol, I won't go as far as Vino. I don't think Fowler and Gregory are going to outright bust...but the rest of the post was right. Mack better than Fowler across the board and Beasley a far better pass rusher. 

Quote:Lol, I won't go as far as Vino. I don't think Fowler and Gregory are going to outright bust...but the rest of the post was right. Mack better than Fowler across the board and Beasley a far better pass rusher. 

 

What makes Beasley such a great pass rusher in your opinion?

Quote:What makes Beasley such a great pass rusher in your opinion?

For starters he can dip and bend. Something Fowler (or Andre Branch for that matter) hasn't been able to do consistently.

Well hopefully we get Williams or a trade down to where we get some additional 1st and just take Dupree.

Quote:I wouldn't either. But I do see a favorable comparison between the two guys. Motor, aggressiveness, nastiness,neither are/were the most refined pass rushers but play with an attitude.


I like both Beasley and Fowler but I definitely do not love either guy as much as some people do.


Beasley in my opinion is completely reliant on his explosive first step to win 1v1, if he doesn't win off his initial burst he usually gets beat. Even when his get off is great he can often times be pushed up field by athletic OT's who are athletic enough to slide out and deal with the speed rush. He's shown a decent up and under move, works very well against less athletic OT's, and tries a spin occasionally but its not very effective. In run support he's average while playing at DE and doesn't play up to his 35 reps at the combine. He also doesn't disengage very well and can get moved. What worries me the most about Beasley is his reliance on that first step to win because when it gets shut down he doesn't seem to have much else. Obviously the OT'S in the NFL are pretty athletic for the most part.


Fowler is a guy that doesn't do any one thing spectacular but he's a very good football player. What I like the most about Fowler are his hands. He uses them well even though quite frankly I don't think he knows how to win with them. It looks like he has strong hands but like I said he rarely wins 1v1 with a pass rush move so he relies on strength and shedding the pass rusher. While Fowler only did 19 reps at the combine I would say he plays stronger than that. Lastly what I really like about Fowler is his nastiness, it looks like he wants to hurt people when he's playing the game. I don't get that same feeling from Beasley or Gregory. What scares me about Fowler is that he doesn't win 1v1 with great hands or pass rush moves very much.


IMO both guys have bust potential just as much as everybody else in the draft. I think it comes down to projecting into the future. Most people have their preference already and I don't think much is gonna change that.


I like Fowler Jr more than Beasley based solely on what I think Fowler can and will turn in to. But I completely understand why many like Beasley as well.


This is just from watching cut ups of the guys from Draftbreakdown. I don't pretend to know everything, I'm just an armchair scout like the rest of you guys.

I agree with about all of this

Quote:What makes Beasley such a great pass rusher in your opinion?

He has everything you want except great length. Best overall athlete in the class, great first step explosion, bends at damn near 45°, shows several good counter moves, shows the ability to learn/adjust as the game develops, has good hand usage, will get overpowered sometimes but doesn't get completely swallowed up like Ray does.

 

Basically read what Hank says here as he hits all of the same points, but with visual proof that I got a warning for posting in here. 

 

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2015/3/28/8...ic-beasley

Quote:Well hopefully we get Williams or a trade down to where we get some additional 1st and just take Dupree.

Dupree is the only outcome where I would be happy w/ a trade down I believe. If Dave does trade down and we wind up with Ray or a RB or whatnot I would be very sad. 

The jags got their sacks last year with average personnel like Andre Branch. You put (arguably) the best athlete in this draft class (Beasely) in this defense, and you will see the first DROY the Jags have ever had. Beasely was built for our defense. The dude is a stud.

Like them both a lot. Beasley is a freak and if he learns to use it he may be unstoppable. Tries to bull rush a little too much. Use that quickness and speed bro. How can anyone not like Fowler? The guy plays his [BLEEP] off and is absolutely ferocious.

Leonard Williams if he's there. You don't pass on a player like him, regardless of need. If he's gone then Beasley due to scheme fit, but I wouldn't be disappointed with Fowler.