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Quote:I get what you're saying if you're only looking at the immediate past. But if you can look beyond that to see the progress that's occurring, you'll feel a lot better about the immediate future.
Bradley does not get 10 years to build this team. I hope I see real progress in the regular season.
Quote:Last year at this time people were saying that they expected improvement in 2014 and the Jags to at least be competing for a playoff slot late in 2015.
Now I'm hearing six wins are OK as long as the Jags show "progress."
The evolution of expectations is NOT showing progress.
We see this every year...Every year (even back in Gene Smith's time here), we see the draft/FA signings and some get so excited (other than a punter picked in the third round) and then see/read about how well everyone is doing in OTAs and training camp which then makes some people so excited that they make unrealistic expectations only to be disappointed...
Granted it is understood that eventually progress will no longer be counted as playing better and being more competitive, but wins will become the measuring stick...
I fully understand the the W's have to come, but they won't come in the numbers some people expect without following the process/plan Caldwell has begun...It's been said and understood that the results may not come as all W's, but this year should be the year when it's fair to start judging where this team is at now, as compared to when Caldwell/Gus took control of it
Quote:It's makes everyone feel good to to say progress is occurring, but there comes a point in time when progress has to be measured in W's and L's.
I don't disagree with that. I think as the team is improving so are expectations (as they should). There is no doubt that this team is substantially more talented than the one that Dave and Gus inherited. Most reasonable fans understood that a rebuild of this magnitude would result in struggles for the first two or three seasons. This year you'll begin to see the evidence of the improvement in the actual W/L record so I'd actually put them a little ahead of schedule.
Quote:Bradley does not get 10 years to build this team. I hope I see real progress in the regular season.
It hasn't been ten years. Dave and Gus have had two and a half so far.
Not buying into Gus so far. When a team is as bad as the Jaguars were in 2013 improvement shouldn't be so hard to see. The biggest jump should be from year one to year two, and from year one to year two the team actually had a worse record and was still completely uncompetitive in games against teams that aren't similarly terrible to the Jaguars. Gus probably should have been shown the door after year two, but since he's still here he needs to actually show some progress, because when fans have to load up on excuses for a coach it really just means a guy isn't a great coach, and if someone isn't a great coach why not try to find better?
So, just after they gutted the team, you expected to see immediate improvement ? Ummm... ok. You chose the perfect screen name, btw....
Quote:Not buying into Gus so far. When a team is as bad as the Jaguars were in 2013 improvement shouldn't be so hard to see. The biggest jump should be from year one to year two, and from year one to year two the team actually had a worse record and was still completely uncompetitive in games against teams that aren't similarly terrible to the Jaguars. Gus probably should have been shown the door after year two, but since he's still here he needs to actually show some progress, because when fans have to load up on excuses for a coach it really just means a guy isn't a great coach, and if someone isn't a great coach why not try to find better?
How were we not competitive last year? After Blake went in we were in pretty much every game till the late 4th quarter, despite our rookie mistakes.
Quote:How were we not competitive last year? After Blake went in we were in pretty much every game till the late 4th quarter, despite our rookie mistakes.
The team lost by at least 8 points to every playoff team it faced (Steelers and Ravens by 8 points) got swept by the texans, and got blown away by the colts by a combined 47 points with the point differentials being 27 and 20 points. You can imagine progress all over the place if you put conditions on what you're looking at, but looking at the team as a whole, it needs to show some serious improvement this season. If you're going to be an apologist for Bradley and treat this season like his second one then we should see a big improvement from last year. At least to showing the team can actually compete in games against the colts.
Quote:The last two years, we started the first eight games looking awful, but ended very strong.
I want to see Gus have this team eating nails starting week one.
I'm not saying we have to go 8-0 to start the season, but if we're 0-4 come October I will be extremely not enthused and very unflattering with my comments.
It would take a bit of a miracle to not start 0-4 given their schedule this year. I'll gladly take 1-3.
Quote:Last year at this time people were saying that they expected improvement in 2014 and the Jags to at least be competing for a playoff slot late in 2015.
Now I'm hearing six wins are OK as long as the Jags show "progress."
The evolution of expectations is NOT showing progress.
Six win would represent marked improvement over the last three years. There's no chance Gus is gone if he reaches six.
Quote:Six win would represent marked improvement over the last three years. There's no chance Gus is gone if he reaches six.
It's dangerous to say something like that. Six wins facing off against the titans twice and getting the NFC south should be considered the floor on the season, and the circumstances of the ten losses would mean a lot more than getting to 6 wins with 3 games against mariota and winston.
Quote:It's dangerous to say something like that. Six wins facing off against the titans twice and getting the NFC south should be considered the floor on the season, and the circumstances of the ten losses would mean a lot more than getting to 6 wins with 3 games against mariota and winston.
I'll agree that six wins is the floor of what's acceptable. Five wins and I'll personally kick Gus to the curb.
I'm still going to stick with 8-8. If you can't hit atleast .500 after 3 years, you are showing you don't have what it takes to bring down the big dogs. Also, playing the Titans twice with a rookie QB should make it that much easier. Mariotta is no Luck. If Gus screws up this season, he should be gone. It still bothers me that we got worse from year 1 to 2. Really?
Quote:I'm still going to stick with 8-8. If you can't hit atleast .500 after 3 years, you are showing you don't have what it takes to bring down the big dogs. Also, playing the Titans twice with a rookie QB should make it that much easier. Mariotta is no Luck. If Gus screws up this season, he should be gone. It still bothers me that we got worse from year 1 to 2. Really?
Is it really that difficult to grasp why that happened if you look at the number of rookies we started last year in comparison to Gus' first year?
They gutted the roster in year 1. Last year, they started and played more rookies than any other team in the league in recent history, and they took their lumps in doing so. The expectation is that this year they should improve based on the progression of those same young players who now have a season under their belt, many of whom have solidified themselves as starters on this roster.
It's not impossible to understand the regression last year. Many here actually expected it once they made their final roster decisions and you looked at how much youth they were trotting out there weekly. Even still, while the record didn't reflect it, the team finished last season stronger than they did in Gus' first year, and they weren't getting blown off the field in losses in the same way they did in year one either.
Quote:I'm still going to stick with 8-8. If you can't hit atleast .500 after 3 years, you are showing you don't have what it takes to bring down the big dogs. Also, playing the Titans twice with a rookie QB should make it that much easier. Mariotta is no Luck. If Gus screws up this season, he should be gone. It still bothers me that we got worse from year 1 to 2. Really?
The circumstances around the record will hold a lot of meaning. If Bortles goes on IR they should just fire bradley at the beginning of the season to cut the "but he had no QB" stuff off before it can even start. Caldwell might be following him out the door. I think Caldwell has done a decent job overall, but I really don't like his reaching for need stuff. Fowler had better be a 10+ sack per year guy or Caldwell could be looking at ofer three on high first round picks.
Quote:The circumstances around the record will hold a lot of meaning. If Bortles goes on IR they should just fire bradley at the beginning of the season to cut the "but he had no QB" stuff off before it can even start. Caldwell might be following him out the door. I think Caldwell has done a decent job overall, but I really don't like his reaching for need stuff. Fowler had better be a 10+ sack per year guy or Caldwell could be looking at ofer three on high first round picks.
That's what sucks this year. We have no idea how this dude will turn out. If he sucks next year, people will say because he is technically a "rookie." We have seen this before. The stars on the ones who do well immediately. How many guys have we given 3-5 years to get "good" and they never do?
Quote:That's what sucks this year. We have no idea how this dude will turn out. If he sucks next year, people will say because he is technically a "rookie." We have seen this before. The stars on the ones who do well immediately. How many guys have we given 3-5 years to get "good" and they never do?
We'll be able to see if he's worthy of the pick early on even if he doesn't get a ton of sacks. He needs to show he's got athleticism and he'll need to either start great, or show he's getting good really quick. If he doesn't do that then it's likely he'll never be a guy worthy of being taken over Leonard Williams, who dominated his guy the other day.
Quote:We'll be able to see if he's worthy of the pick early on even if he doesn't get a ton of sacks. He needs to show he's got athleticism and he'll need to either start great, or show he's getting good really quick. If he doesn't do that then it's likely he'll never be a guy worthy of being taken over Leonard Williams, who dominated his guy the other day.
I wanted Williams, then I see him get 2.5 sacks and a safety. ..makes me hate the Fowler pick at the moment.
Quote:I wanted Williams, then I see him get 2.5 sacks and a safety. ..makes me hate the Fowler pick at the moment.
Caldwell didn't see a need for a dominant player, though, because the Jaguars already have Marks recovering from an ACL, and much like the Jaguars needed Harvey in 2008, they needed Fowler in 2015. Need doesn't make guys into better players.
Quote:Is it really that difficult to grasp why that happened if you look at the number of rookies we started last year in comparison to Gus' first year?
They gutted the roster in year 1. Last year, they started and played more rookies than any other team in the league in recent history, and they took their lumps in doing so. The expectation is that this year they should improve based on the progression of those same young players who now have a season under their belt, many of whom have solidified themselves as starters on this roster.
It's not impossible to understand the regression last year. Many here actually expected it once they made their final roster decisions and you looked at how much youth they were trotting out there weekly. Even still, while the record didn't reflect it, the team finished last season stronger than they did in Gus' first year, and they weren't getting blown off the field in losses in the same way they did in year one either.
Geeeez FBT, are ya new here? Don't you know if you don't go from 3-13 or 4-12 with a whole bunch of new guys in the following year your team is junk? If your new guys don't all get selected to the pro bowl, your QB looks like he's a sure fire first ballot HOF inductee, you have 4 receivers with 1000+ yards and a top 3 defense after you gutted almost the entire roster, you need to fire everyone from Mr. Kahn clear down to the people who launder the uniforms, and the cheerleaders too, plus the hot dog guy, the people who clean the bathrooms, and the guys who cut the grass...
:ermm: :confused:
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