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I bet he gets stonewalled against the jags this year when compared to last year

Quote:I bet he gets stonewalled against the jags this year when compared to last year

I would definitely bet he doesn't get 3 sacks in each game while going up against the like of Sam F. Young this year. Oh wait, the quality of the offensive lineman makes no difference, I forgot. Hashtag I'mBeingSarcastic.

Quote:It's like I originally said; I'm not gonna waste time arguing with someone who's clearly a few brain cells away from being a potato. So, you win. Totally pwned me there brotha.

Cut the crap, the reason why you aren't arguing is because your argument is a stupid one and has no merit. Who gives a crap if he got the majority of his sacks inside the division, as a 3-4 DE the amount of sacks he got outside of the division still puts him in the top 5 as a 3-4 DE..3-4 DEs aren't supposed to be doing what he's doing. Your argument is ignorant at best and if I'm a few brain cells away from being a potato, compared to you, your potato is mashed.

Mashed potatoes, I see what you did there. Again, your panties are twisted because I don't have the opinion that JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL. We all realize he's a dominant defender, but it's pure fact that more than half of his numbers came in 6 games against divisional opponents with terrible Olines. 4 of those six games, he had 10 sacks against the most sacked rookie QB in the league (Bortles) and a team good enough to get the 2nd pick in the draft (flaming thumbtacks). You don't fault the guy for putting up the numbers, but when you compare them to his non-divisional stats, they certainly appear inflated.


Now go on and freak out, but it's like I said: I think it's wrong to call Watt the best player in the league.

Quote:Mashed potatoes, I see what you did there. Again, your panties are twisted because I don't have the opinion that JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL. We all realize he's a dominant defender, but it's pure fact that more than half of his numbers came in 6 games against divisional opponents with terrible Olines. 4 of those six games, he had 10 sacks against the most sacked rookie QB in the league (Bortles) and a team good enough to get the 2nd pick in the draft (flaming thumbtacks). You don't fault the guy for putting up the numbers, but when you compare them to his non-divisional stats, they certainly appear inflated.

Now go on and freak out, but it's like I said: I think it's wrong to call Watt the best player in the league.

If it's pure fact then list the numbers..just because you say so, doesn't make it "pure fact". You're talking out of your rear end. Sacks aren't the only stats he records or the only thing he does


And it doesn't really matter if you think he's the best player or not because your opinion doesn't really matter does it? The opinion that mattered was the opinion of his peers (people who actually play the game) and they voted him the #1 player..that's what matters

Quote:If it's pure fact then list the numbers..just because you say so, doesn't make it "pure fact". You're talking out of your rear end.

 

It's true.  I looked at it in a different thread and it might even be this one but I don't care to look.  He had something like 14.5 sacks against the AFC South.

 

*EDIT*

 

I looked it up, I was incorrect.  11 of his 20.5 sacks came in the 6 AFC South games.

 

*EDIT*

 

I was incorrect on thinking I was incorrect, sort of.  14 sacks in 6 AFC South games and 6.5 sacks in 10 non-AFC South games.

Quote:It's true. I looked at it in a different thread and it might even be this one but I don't care to look. He had something like 14.5 sacks against the AFC South.


*EDIT*


I looked it up, I was incorrect. 11 of his 20.5 sacks came in the 6 AFC South games.


*EDIT*


I was incorrect on thinking I was incorrect, sort of. 14 sacks in 6 AFC South games and 6.5 sacks in 10 non-AFC South games.

Again, I'm not just talking about sacks..his impact on the game is more than just sacks..


QB hits, hurries, tackles, tackles for loss, passes defensed, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, interceptions, and TDs


The poster above acts like Watt was nonexistent/invisible and unproductive in games outside of the division and that isn't the case at all.. And is it really his fault that he took advantage of weaker lines or situations? That's what he is supposed to do..the argument is petty at best and is just hating on a great individual season performance.

Well he won't have a season like he did last year. But keeps on playing like this. He will be HOF material in a heartbeat. When all is said and done.

Quote:Again, I'm not just talking about sacks..his impact on the game is more than just sacks..

QB hits, hurries, tackles, tackles for loss, passes defensed, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, interceptions, and TDs

The poster above acts like Watt was nonexistent/invisible and unproductive in games outside of the division and that isn't the case at all.. And is it really his fault that he took advantage of weaker lines or situations? That's what he is supposed to do..the argument is petty at best and is just hating on a great individual season performance.

Man, you're pretty worked up over my opinion. I'm the only one that's said any numbers in this thread. All you've done is kick and scream because not everyone shares the same thoughts you do.

Quote:If it's pure fact then list the numbers..just because you say so, doesn't make it "pure fact". You're talking out of your rear end. Sacks aren't the only stats he records or the only thing he does

And it doesn't really matter if you think he's the best player or not because your opinion doesn't really matter does it? The opinion that mattered was the opinion of his peers (people who actually play the game) and they voted him the #1 player..that's what matters

14 sacks against crappy AFCS south opponents, 6 against the rest of the league. Now why don't you throw out some numbers that make him look like the best player in the NFL, and not like he racked up very good stats against very bad teams.


He's a dominant defender who's taken advantage of playing in a weak division (Oline-wise). He's not the best player in the NFL.

Quote:14 sacks against crappy AFCS south opponents, 6 against the rest of the league. Now why don't you throw out some numbers that make him look like the best player in the NFL, and not like he racked up very good stats against very bad teams.

He's a dominant defender who's taken advantage of playing in a weak division (Oline-wise). He's not the best player in the NFL.

Again your opinion doesn't mean crap to me and you keep dodging the other stats.. His peers (actual NFL players) voted him #1 so get over it and stop wasting your breath and my time..nobody who is unbiased and doesn't have a hate agenda cares how Watt occurred his stats..


Lol, you act like he lucked into that season/stats like he hasn't recorded a 20+ sack season before.. Whatever, Hater's gonna hate.

Quote:Man, you're pretty worked up over my opinion. I'm the only one that's said any numbers in this thread. All you've done is kick and scream because not everyone shares the same thoughts you do.

The NFL shares the same thought as me, seriously what are you smoking/talking about?

Quote:The NFL shares the same thought as me, seriously what are you smoking/talking about?

Well, that must mean you're opinion can't be wrong then, can it?


Let's keep this going; no one has been this spun up on the board for a while, and there's still some weeks until football starts. What I thought was a waste of time has turned into much amusement during this dead zone.


Now for my retort: JJ Watt produces more than half of his stats in less than half of his games against crap opponents. He is a dominant defender, but not the best player in pro football. This is my argument, plain and simple.


Now, instead of using a list of other people's opinions, why don't you try and use your own thoughts and give reason for why you think he is the best player in the NFL?


I eagerly await the next piece of hilarity you have to offer.

Quote:Now for my retort: JJ Watt produces more than half of his stats in less than half of his games against crap opponents. He is a dominant defender, but not the best player in pro football. This is my argument, plain and simple.

 

See here: http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap300000...to_gallery

Quote:Matt Patterson/Associated Press

 

J.J. Swatt
J.J. Watt is the only player with at least 15 sacks (20.5) and 15 passes defensed (16) in a single season, doing so in 2012. Watt led the NFL with a franchise-record 20.5 sacks that season, a total that tied him with Pro Football Hall of Famer Lawrence Taylor (1986) for the sixth-most in a season at the time. In 2014, Watt recorded 20.5 sacks once again, second only to Justin Houston's 22.0. Watt is the first player in NFL history to record multiple 20+ sack seasons in a career.

Quote: 

<div>
Associated Press/National Football League



J.J. Does It All
J.J. Watt recorded 5 TD in 2014, becoming the first player in NFL history to record 20+ sacks and more than 1 touchdown. In winning his second Defensive Player of the Year, award Watt joined an elite class of Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Mike Singletary and Ray Lewis. Each of those players, with the exception of Lewis, are enshrined in Canton, and Lewis is certainly on his way. Could Watt join Lawrence Taylor to become only the second player in NFL history to win three Defensive Player of the Year Awards in 2015?[/b]

 

</div>

Quote:See here: <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000501068?module=HP11_photo_gallery'>http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000501068?module=HP11_photo_gallery</a>

I appreciate the fact you used actual stats for your argument. Just to be clear, the argument isn't whether Watt is a dominant defender or not; he is. I don't think he's the best player in the league though.


In 2012, 10 of his 20.5 sacks and 6 of his 16 batted passes came against the AFCS. Very clearly dominant numbers, and not just against one division. In 2013 however, 5 of his 10.5 sacks and 5 of his 7 tipped balls were in the AFCS. Last year the trend continued, with a whopping 14 of his 20.5 sacks coming against AFCS opponents (6 against the hapless Jags), as well as 5 out of his 10 tipped balls.


It goes back to what I told doofus earlier; I think Watt is one helluva player, but the fact is that he has put up more than half of his stats against really, really bad teams. Not just Olines either. This guy has been going HAM against the Blaine Gabberts, Jake Lockers, and Chad Hennes of the NFL for the last 3 seasons. It's not his fault of course, but I'm not gonna say this is the best player in the NFL.

I've gotten that is your main argument, but then you'd have to go back and analyze each of the elite players that he's 'joined' to make sure their division was competitive throughout their careers.  Heck Ray Lewis played in a division with the Cleveland (Factory of Sadness) Browns most of his career, and Mike Singletary played amongst the best defense in history.  However the article sure does have a whole lot of "First to record", "Only player ever to", and "The first player in NFL history to" to be fully discounted by the division Watt plays in.

 

Quote: This guy has been going HAM against the Blaine Gabberts, Jake Lockers, and Chad Hennes of the NFL for the last 3 seasons.

 

Don't forget, rookie Blake Bortles. :whistling: 

 

Sacks are important but don't tell the whole story on a pass rusher by themself.  TFL's which have the same result as a sack, QB hurries, QB knockdowns, passes defensed, forced fumbles, etc... all directly or indirectly affect the way the game unfolds and as a result can affect the outcome of a game.  No defensive player in recent memory has affected as many plays as JJ Watt has through his first 4 seasons.  The guy is undoubtedly on pace to make the Hall and be regarded as an all-time great and his inclusion in the MVP discussion last year was well deserved, a feat in its own right for a defensive player.

 

FWIW, he led the league in TFL's last year with 29 followed by J. Houston and Suh with 23 each.

 

He led the league in passes defensed by a D-lineman with 10.  The next closest was a tie between Ricky Jean Francois, JPP, Jared Crick, Sammie Hill and Robert Quinn with 6.

 

According to Sportingcharts.com, he also led the league in QB hurries with 32 followed by J. Gallette with 29 and J. Houston with 26.

 

And regarding his 20.5 sacks last year, he was doing this as a 3-4 D-lineman.  3-4 D-linemen aren't typically known for pass rushing skills as they are usually trying to open up lanes for pass rushing Linebackers.  The next closest sack number by a Defensive End was 14.5 by 4-3 DE Mario Williams.  The next closest 3-4 DE in sacks was Vinny Curry of the Eagles with 9.

 

Finally, a tweet last December by Gil Brandt illustrates just how frequently he was affecting the QB versus the competition:

 

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt  Dec 3
<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);">J.J. Watt's Sacks (11.5) + knockdowns (43) + pressures (59) total is 113.5. The next closest is Everson Griffen at 65 (11-23-31).

<p style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);"> 

<p style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);">I reference this tweet because I couldn't find anywhere online that kept QB knockdown stats (without a subscription) though I trust Gil is not making this number up and this was obviously not the numbers for the entire season as it was tweeted out with 4 weeks left on the schedule. I'm not sure what the difference between a QB pressure and a QB hurry is, but the incomplete pressures number above was obviously much higher than his season total for hurries.

<p style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);"> 

<p style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,248,250);">Did playing the Jaguars and Titans twice last year help? Probably, but were the Jaguars and Titans offensive lines equally terrible against the rest of their schedules or was JJ Watt making them look even worse? If anything, I think JJ Watt is exposing just how bad Houston's QB situation was last year. He is so historically dominant as a defensive player that even mediocre play by Houston's QB should have gotten them into the playoffs.

Last year's performance rare?

 

No, his entire career so far has been rare.

 

https://twitter.com/TexansPR/status/621345052942426112

 

 

Texans PR ‏@TexansPR  5h5 hours ago
<p style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">.@HoustonTexans DE @JJWatt is the only player to record 40+ QB hits in a season since 2000 & he did it 3 straight yrs

 



 

This accomplishment speaks for itself.  He's a very special player and very much deserves the accolades of MVP.

 

Is there another player at another position that even comes close to such a feat?

 

There's no rule MVP must be given to an offensive player, particularly QB.  That's hypocritical at best.  Funny how when a team loses, it's whitewashed away and excused as a "team game."  But when a team wins, it's credited solely to the QB more times than not.  Removing bias, we see Watt is truly exceptional.

 

So, yes.

 

Let's be clear about JJ Watt.

 

He's MVP, whether we choose to recognize it or not.

Why does he have to like my favorite soccer team... Now i kinda like the guy.

Watt's a good player, but it's clear as the sky is blue that he's not the most valuable player in the NFL. His team's performance is way too poor for that to be the case. The stats show that his performance is really really good and he's in the range of other hall of fame level defensive players like Reggie White, Bruce Smith, and Lawrence Taylor. That said, it's clear why he's not MVP, if the texans had a QB on their team that was performing at the QB position as Watt has been performing as a d-lineman the texans would be perennial Superbowl favorites. As it is they're a team that's thought of as a borderline wildcard candidate. That fact in itself alone is why Watt is obviously not the MVP, he doesn't carry his team like a top QB can.