Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I am not exactly sure how often this was brought up in these forums, but would the price be too high to trade for AJ McCarron?  From the few times I've seen him, he looked pretty darn good filling in for Dalton.  If Bortles wants to prove it, what better way than to provide some stiff competition at the QB position.  AJ's contract ends next year correct?  Due to the current state of the team as a result of the Bradley regime, it's not exactly easy to gauge Bortles 100% (although he has been vastly underwhelming).  Would we rather gamble on a QB in the draft with an offense that, under the right coach (and perhaps an O-lineman or two), could function like a well-oiled machine with seasoned players?  Thoughts?

I personally be fine with it. 

I'd still get a plan B ready for next year and not just put all of our eggs into the basket of him completely turning it around.

Bortles is toast.... 

Quote:I had hope.. It got pick 6'd

 

I guess that's better then my hope which got deep 6'd.

 

I just don't believe Bortles will ever be a playoff winning, or even a division winning, QB for the Jags. The inaccuracy, long windup, throwing into double coverage, along with throwing too many INTs, worry me more then anything about him.

 

The best I can say right now is that I hope I am wrong.

 

Come on Bortles, the Jags 2017 season is all up to you and what you do in the off season.

I'm one who thinks competition will mean nothing to him he's going to out practice an out perform any one we bring in even the delusional Romo Cutler an fitz fans who r seasoned vets an turn the ball over more but I'm biased for sure half his picks r from lee or Robison flailing kicking in the air throwing the ball right into the defenders hands i can count atleast 4 or 5 from just from lee not catching the initial pass an that was the first 6-7 weeks but well see I hope to god we sign one of these old bums so I can watch grown folks cry about something new every day boohoo I called for Romo An he got hurt the first play boohoo I called for fittz/cutler he threw 5 picks in two minutes boohoo as a fan base that called for Tebow lol ya we can really evaluate what we have an what we don't

Quote:Thanks to a fan of a divisional opponent to put some intellectual perspective into this conversation.

 

I'm sure every forum has it's share of boneheads, but this place seems to be infested. They have to ALWAYS be blaming something. As soon as that person is no longer part of the equation, they move on to their next target.

 

Clockwork.

I get precisely what you are saying, but when this team has been as bad as it's been for as long as it's been, there aren't going to be a lot a laurels thrown  the team's way.

 

That's going to come with the territory until the team finds the right coaching/talent combination that results in sustained winning.

For the record, I have not completely lost hope, but it has diminished considerably.

 

I think with any young QB his first two years, he showed some good and bad things.

 

Considering by most accounts, he wasn't ready to play at all his first year and the plan was to have him sit and learn, that was going to be expected.

 

But this year marked such a significant downturn on so many levels, it's easy to see why so many have completely lost hope and many others have much less hope than we did.

 

In any event, I have another theory regarding his failures-just a theory.

 

David Carr, the poster boy for QBs with a shoddy OL, took 91 sacks in his first two seasons and 140 by the end of his 3rd year with the Texans.

 

In his first two seasons, he took 106 sacks and has taken 30 more this year, on pace for 32.

 

Perhaps he has taken so much physical abuse in his first two years, he's a bit shell shocked like Carr.

 

I'm betting that, plus the coordinator issues, maybe him taking things for granted contributed.

 

Or simply, as SpeedyG said, maybe he isn't that good.  Hopefully that is not the case.

I think he can and will improve but I don't ever see him as an accurate technician type QB.  I think he'll always be erratic and mistake prone with those wow moments mixed in.  I hope I'm wrong but I don't ever see him reaching that "elite" status.  Mid-tier QB is his ceiling IMO.

Quote:I think he can and will improve but I don't ever see him as an accurate technician type QB.  I think he'll always be erratic and mistake prone with those wow moments mixed in.  I hope I'm wrong but I don't ever see him reaching that "elite" status.  Mid-tier QB is his ceiling IMO.

I think to optimize his chances to become a top QB, we need a top QB guru to develop him.

 

That is one reason why a Sean Payton would be such an attractive option in my mind.

I agree Bortles has had moments when he did indeed look good last season. The problem is that he also had moments when he looked stupid last season. This season the negative moments have been occurring more regularly than the good ones. There is no denying that much of the positive statistics accumulated by Bortles has been during what is commonly referred to as 'garbage time'.

 

All this not withstanding, what is at the heart of the situation is Bortles fundamental throwing skills. The kind of basic skill set that should've been long ago established by someone playing quarterback who has reached the professional level. It can be debated all day as to if 'coaching' would make a difference for Bortles in this key area at this point. You can be fairly certain though that a quarterback who by his own admission 'isn't a natural thrower of the football' probably doesn't have the 'right stuff' to play at a championship level in the NFL. Bortles is like Henne in this regard; they can both play quarterback, but neither is well equipped to lead a team to a championship... and that was what we were looking for in our franchise quarterback.

 

It can hardly be argued though that this weakness in the most basic of skill sets for a quarterback was either overlooked or ignored when Bortles was drafted. I don't blame Bortles for the situation; by the end of three years it's pretty safe to say that 'he is what he is' according to Mojo. I look more unkindly at Dave Caldwell for putting the team in this untenable situation. Bortles has some pluses going for him; size, athleticism, 'guts', and a willingness to work. But I question if those attributes can overcome the flaw of lacking in a basic skill like passing the football.

 

According to Dave, our new head coach will [BLEEP] and decide about Bortles play here. In my opinion, Bortles should be benched for the remainder of the season and we should see what Allen can do in a real game.

This day and age quarterbacks are brought right into teams and expected to play at a decent level. Not at all like the days when Manning, brady and others were drafted, sat behind the starter....and allowed to stumble and fall as they got their act together.

 

I'm ok with giving bbint a chance to prove he can repair his problems with spending whatever time on the west coast he needs to fix them.

 

But I'm NOT counting on it enough for Dave to depend on him. McCarron sounds like a good option along with a decent draft pick (and all decent QB's don't HAVE to be in the first round).....and to me we need better scouts.

 

Here's to 2017!

I think some open competition and better coaching will bring out the best in Bortles next year. Since the beginning of his career everything has been given to him. No repercussions for throwing picks or flat out playing terrible. In 2017 someone is going to be breathing on his neck waiting for him to mess up which I believe will make him a better QB

Quote:He broke every franchise passing record at a very young age. ..he most likely didnt train as hard in the off season. . This season is either a wake up call or hes done.

Dave absolutely needs to bring some competition in

My thoughts exactly

Quote:I think he can and will improve but I don't ever see him as an accurate technician type QB.  I think he'll always be erratic and mistake prone with those wow moments mixed in.  I hope I'm wrong but I don't ever see him reaching that "elite" status.  Mid-tier QB is his ceiling IMO.

 

The Giants have over a decade with Eli and what I saw last night was mid-tier QB that has 2 super bowl rings.  He missed on critical throws and threw some bad picks.  It felt like watching Bortles play.

 

I think we have multiple factors working...

 

1. Too much early success bleeding in an air of confidence that displaced hard work.

2. Receivers that bailed him out and helped over inflate the air of confidence

3. Over coaching on protection and ball control - deflates the "gunslinger" play

4. Awful Game Planning, Practices and overall preparation since the guy came here

5. No valid competition in any of the training camps or offseasons

6. Too many sacks

 

I think there is a strong possibility that he is injured as well.  His deep ball doesn't have the velocity or Arc like it did in 2015.  AR15 isn't bailing you out when the ball is flat and wobbling.

I am on the fence about him. I don't personally think nor feel he'll ever be the franchise quarterback we need him to be. But there's some valid cases you can make in favor for him as to why he regressed and you flip the coin and say there's valid cases you can make against him for being a let down in 2016. 

 

First, let's talk coaching. Bradley is out. We're moving on. When you go back and look at this choices at offensive coordinator. They were [BAD WORD REMOVED] box choices. Jedd Fisch had never had any previous play calling experience in the NFL. Couple him with a rookie QB that was deemed not ready yet with the preference for him to ride the bench by his general manager at the time and you were already asking for trouble. 

 

Fisch is fired after leading the 31st ranked offense nowhere and the worst possible known commodity on the market that you could possibly hire, in Greg Olson with the 32nd ranked offense was then hired to do his job. 2015 we then see this offense "take-off" yet the majority of that was in games that were already lost thanks to an incompetent defense but yet nobody talks about the same issues we saw in 2016 with this offense. 

 

This offense last year and this year failed to get anything going in the first halves of football games. And last year when they were put away early we had a lot of garbage time statistics racked up on offense all across the board. When the defense was able to get it done this year in 2016 it put the ball back in our offenses' court to get it done and cash in on their opportunities. 

 

That didn't happen. Blake's mechanics are awful this year. But you can also clearly in see in a lot of games that he's hesitating and double clutching on some his pass attempts because he's not sure what he's seeing out there from the defense. He's forced to challenge a defense that's no longer sitting back and giving him the easy openings and passes like he saw in 2015. And he wasn't ready. 

 

So apart of it is the coaching. But he also has to take personal responsibility like everybody else on this team. Sometimes you have to personally challenge yourself and push yourself on the practice field and film room. That's what separates the mediocre from the good and the elite from the good. He's got 2017 to prove he's the man. It's a contract year. I want the man to succeed. Because it's one less draft pick or contract we have to invest to get this team rolling. 

If Jags are serious about letting Bortles improve, they need to go for broke on linemen in FA and the draft. His mechanics will never improve behind this line. He needs easy throws.

Quote:If Jags are serious about letting Bortles improve, they need to go for broke on linemen in FA and the draft. His mechanics will never improve behind this line. He needs easy throws.

No only that, but he needs a line that can effectively run block, and ideally, a guy who excels at developing QBs/calling plays. (Sean Payton) 

Quote:1 & 2. Yeah, he has some nice throws. So does every QB, even the bad ones. Case friggin Keenum went 27-32 for 321 yards (10.1 YPA) and 3 TDs at Detroit. No one would say he is good or deserves faith, yet he embarrassed Blake against the same opponent this year.

3. The deflected interceptions were still really bad throws. The only one that wasn't was the one against Denver that Harris Jr. got. 

4 & 5. No argument

6. He ain't that young, and he certainly isn't inexperienced. He has a full seasons worth of starts more than Blaine got, and he is more than half a year older than Gabbert was too. 

 

6. 

He's like 4 months older than Carson Wentz.  Their fans are ready to crown him, and he's 14 TD's and 14 INT's.

 

Regarding Bortles, few people were talking about his motion and how the ball came out last year, which should tell you something.  

 

 

Here's how I see this awful year:

 

Nothing has gone right for this Offense all year.  Nothing.  Some very amazing things have gone wrong as well.

 

This includes:  Special teams coverage has been astonishingly bad each and every game. Ivory having a mystery illness, an amazing amount of drops/deflections leading to INT's that hit receivers in BOTH hands, whether the throws were money or not.  A supposed go-to TE who just gave up and quit.  The go-to WR's from last year can't get open and pout about it.  Those same WR's getting raped throughout the season and it is flat out ignored by the officials, at an abnormal rate, at key times as well.  Collective regression from each and every skill position guy not named Lee.  Bone headed penalties at an OMG level.  This includes overall mental mistakes in each game. It seems we are in 2nd and 12 every drive, after a run for not much, followed by a penalty.

 

This lead to our opponents playing ultra conservative (unless they have a guy named Brock or Phillip starting for a quarter or so).  D has a significantly less chance at turnovers as a result.  They let us beat ourselves, and we are happy to oblige.

 

Without turnovers, our O is rarely in a spot to play on a short field.  This creates a position where it is that much harder for an Offense struggling with consistency to go the length of the field.  We have no running game, except for a few 1/2's where Ivory does well, only to get hurt again.  For some reason we can't complete deep balls, and WR's cannot get open to save their lives (unless they wear 11)

 

And it goes on and on throughout the year......    

 

That is the QB's fault.  That is coaching's fault.  That is an amazing string of bad luck's fault.  That's each player making key mental mistakes fault.  That is the NFL's fault for allowing 15 to get held and interfered with time after time, giving the DB's that much more incentive to do so, if it isn't likely to get called.  That is the WR's fault.

 

That is the team's fault, to allow this to affect them in such a way that they put off that they aren't likely to succeed.  No resiliency.  That is EVERYONE's FAULT.  

 

Teams have bad year.  We had one where we should have had the opposite, and we let things spin out of control.   QB's like Brees, Eli Manning, Big Ben have all had years (just look at all of THEIR THIRD years) and bounced back.  

 

This team, and its QB, have an attitude and mentality issue as much as anything else.  The QB has other issues, to be sure, but he was good enough last year (garbage time stats ASIDE).   He's got a lot of work to do, but this whole team can bounce back, given the right push in the right direction, and continued push way.  

 

This team failed to turn the corner, when it was there for them, and instead ran into a brick wall.

Quote:I think to optimize his chances to become a top QB, we need a top QB guru to develop him.

 

That is one reason why a Sean Payton would be such an attractive option in my mind.

 

I don't know that Sean Payton is any kind of QB guru. He's a brilliant play caller and tactician - but he has to have a very good triggerman.

 

It can be said that Drew Brees made Payton as much as Payton made Brees. The Drew Breeses don't come along all that often

 

I won't automatically expect Bortles fundamentals to be particularly better just because Payton is calling the plays.

Quote:I agree Bortles has had moments when he did indeed look good last season. The problem is that he also had moments when he looked stupid last season. This season the negative moments have been occurring more regularly than the good ones. There is no denying that much of the positive statistics accumulated by Bortles has been during what is commonly referred to as 'garbage time'.

 

All this not withstanding, what is at the heart of the situation is Bortles fundamental throwing skills. The kind of basic skill set that should've been long ago established by someone playing quarterback who has reached the professional level. It can be debated all day as to if 'coaching' would make a difference for Bortles in this key area at this point. You can be fairly certain though that a quarterback who by his own admission 'isn't a natural thrower of the football' probably doesn't have the 'right stuff' to play at a championship level in the NFL. Bortles is like Henne in this regard; they can both play quarterback, but neither is well equipped to lead a team to a championship... and that was what we were looking for in our franchise quarterback.

 

It can hardly be argued though that this weakness in the most basic of skill sets for a quarterback was either overlooked or ignored when Bortles was drafted. I don't blame Bortles for the situation; by the end of three years it's pretty safe to say that 'he is what he is' according to Mojo. I look more unkindly at Dave Caldwell for putting the team in this untenable situation. Bortles has some pluses going for him; size, athleticism, 'guts', and a willingness to work. But I question if those attributes can overcome the flaw of lacking in a basic skill like passing the football.

 

According to Dave, our new head coach will [BAD WORD REMOVED] and decide about Bortles play here. In my opinion, Bortles should be benched for the remainder of the season and we should see what Allen can do in a real game.

 

You are either an accurate thrower or you're not. Perhaps it can be improved upon somewhat but I wouldn't expect some Sandy Koufax type transformation. And accuracy is a QB's most important attribute.

 

I guess Caldwell saw something that lead him to believe that professional people would coach him up. I just don't see it happening. At least not consistently.