Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:That shows none of the stats we are discussing.....try again


Red zone attempts, red zone percentage, red zone scores, offensive TDs, number of offensive possessions, and number of pass attempts.

Too much effort because even if I do all the work to find it you will come up with some reason as to why its not true or relevant.


My point is that college stats have no correlation to Pro success. If it did then Leinart and Vince Young would be playing in Super Bowls.

Quote:Pass attempts does not specify the types of passes being thrown. I.e. conservative vs aggresive passing plays. Ok, Bridgewater had as many attempts, but I would bet more of them were short routes to play T.O.P.

Not according to the passing charts wiseman posted. He is the best at passes of 6-20 yards according to that.....so why is he scoring fewer points with pretty much same passing attempts and number of offensive plays run per game?

Quote:Not according to the passing charts wiseman posted. He is the best at passes of 6-20 yards according to that.....so why is he scoring fewer points with pretty much same passing attempts and number of offensive plays run per game?

College stats don't correlate to pro game. Watch the tape and not the stats. Teddy is a better pure pocket passer where as Manziel is a playmaker. Manziel might be good for a couple years (RG3) but in the long run, it's the pocket passers that win the majority of the time.

Quote:Too much effort because even if I do all the work to find it you will come up with some reason as to why its not true or relevant.

My point is that college stats have no correlation to Pro success. If it did then Leinart and Vince Young would be playing in Super Bowls.

If you go to the link I provided the info is there. You just have select the year


Offensive TDs - Luck 5.4, RG3 5.9


Red zone scores - Luck 4.7, RG3 3.8


Red zone % - Luke 93.86 RG3 70.31


Red zone attempts - Luck 4.8 RG3 5.3


Offensive plays per game - Luck 72.8, RG3 81

Quote:If you go t the link I provided the info is there. You just have select the year

Offensive TDs - Luck 5.4, RG3 - 5.9

Red zone scores

So if RG3 is better in college, why isn't he better in the pros. Find some stats that show that Manziels college production will correlate to pro success. From what I've seen, the pocket passers tend to do better in the NFL where as the playmakers (Vick) fall off.


I have no clue who will be better in the pros but if I had to bet, I would bet on Teddy.

Quote:So if RG3 is better in college, why isn't he better in the pros. Find some stats that show that Manziels college production will correlate to pro success. From what I've seen, the pocket passers tend to do better in the NFL where as the playmakers (Vick) fall off.

I have no clue who will be better in the pros but if I had to bet, I would bet on Teddy.

Luck was the more efficient scorer.....


I mean look at that red zone percentage.....whoosh

Quote:Luck was the more efficient scorer.....

I mean look at that red zone percentage.....whoosh

Well when I responded you didn't have that stat up yet. Luck was obviously the better red zone player clearly.


Luck was and is a beast. Guess we will just have to wait and see who ends up being better between Teddy and Manziel. I would still put my money on Teddy.

Quote:Luck was the more efficient scorer.....


I mean look at that red zone percentage.....whoosh

 

And Bridgewater and Carr more efficient scorers than Manziel.

 

And Bridgewater more efficient at converting 3rd downs. 

Quote:And Bridgewater and Carr more efficient scorers than Manziel.


And Bridgewater more efficient at converting 3rd downs.

According to the red zone stats and offensive TDs and the number of plays run Manziel is the more efficient scorer, but I would like to see your proof showing otherwise....

Quote:Well when I responded you didn't have that stat up yet. Luck was obviously the better red zone player clearly.

Luck was and is a beast. Guess we will just have to wait and see who ends up being better between Teddy and Manziel. I would still put my money on Teddy.

Russell Wilson's numbers are very close to Luck's as well. He was and is a beast as well.

Quote:According to the red zone stats and offensive TDs and the number of plays run Manziel is the more efficient scorer, but I would like to see your proof showing otherwise....

TAMUs offense had more TDs and more attempts. But both Louisvilles offense and Fresno States offense had higher %. Which means when put in the redzone they were more likely to score and more efficient.

Thank you so, so, SO much for creating this highly insightful and never-before-discussed topic, OP.  I can't WAIT to see where everyone stands on this one!

 

BTW, comparing Bridge and Manziel is dumb.  It's like comparing star cruisers to T-rexes.  Teddy is a pocket passer, and Manziel is ANYTHING but (and there's nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise.  Pocket passers don't run 20 yards backward at the first sign of pressure and then fling prayers).

 

That's not to say they both aren't good.  I just think Manziel is a HUGE risk, and that is NOT what we need right now.

The question that needs to be asked, is Johnny's playing style conducive to success in the NFL?

Quote:TAMUs offense had more TDs and more attempts. But both Louisvilles offense and Fresno States offense had higher %. Which means when put in the redzone they were more likely to score and more efficient.

That's not how you calculate scoring efficiency..... Your just looking at red zone percentage

Quote:Not according to the passing charts wiseman posted. He is the best at passes of 6-20 yards according to that.....so why is he scoring fewer points with pretty much same passing attempts and number of offensive plays run per game?

I dont know what ypu are talking about. Even a passing chart doesnt tell the whole story.


Any way you slice it, most of the Louisville games were blowouts while most A&M games were shootouts... that is obviously going to favor Manziel statistically cause the offense will be pushing the pace while Louisville would be content with field goals and conservative passing.

If Johnny played in a traditional NFL offense he would be a better pocket passer than Teddy, Manziels pocket passing is so underrated. I don't want manziel to run unless the games on the line and he has to use he magic, I just feel like he is a better pocket passer the Teddy. 

Proof of Johnnys Arm strengh,touch, and accuracy on the deep ball. Give me a better deep ball than that from Teddy please.

Quote:If Johnny played in a traditional NFL offense he would be a better pocket passer than Teddy, Manziels pocket passing is so underrated. I don't want manziel to run unless the games on the line and he has to use he magic, I just feel like he is a better pocket passer the Teddy. 

Proof of Johnnys Arm strengh,touch, and accuracy on the deep ball. Give me a better deep ball than that from Teddy please.

 

/thread

Quote:I dont know what ypu are talking about. Even a passing chart doesnt tell the whole story.


Any way you slice it, most of the Louisville games were blowouts while most A&M games were shootouts... that is obviously going to favor Manziel statistically cause the offense will be pushing the pace while Louisville would be content with field goals and conservative passing.

 

And if you want to argue this point, then it makes what Teddy did even more impressive.  But you'd be wrong.  Louisville played in shootout games just as much as TAMU.  Seriously, if you want to see just how efficient Teddy is, look no further than his Miami game.  He put the whole team on his back, didn't hold back when Adams was off the field hurt, and pummeled Miami for all they were worth.  Which, BTW, they beat them much more soundly than FSU did, if you care about that sort of comparison.

 

Teddy did what he did in a more pro style offense.  Which means Louisville has a running game, they run play action, and he runs plays from under center as well as in the shotgun.  His completion percentage for middle - intermediate throws is higher than anybody else and his redzone production is higher than any other QB.  He's not making huge plays with his legs, but he can if all else fails.  He reads defenses, instead of Manziel who only reads half of the field.  He doesn't throw YOLO balls, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, if Teddy is gone and they take Manziel I'm fine with it.  But if you're comparing the players they are now, there is no question as to who the better QB is.

Quote:If Johnny played in a traditional NFL offense he would be a better pocket passer than Teddy, Manziels pocket passing is so underrated. I don't want manziel to run unless the games on the line and he has to use he magic, I just feel like he is a better pocket passer the Teddy. 

Proof of Johnnys Arm strengh,touch, and accuracy on the deep ball. Give me a better deep ball than that from Teddy please.

 

trololol

Quote:I dont know what ypu are talking about. Even a passing chart doesnt tell the whole story.

Any way you slice it, most of the Louisville games were blowouts while most A&M games were shootouts... that is obviously going to favor Manziel statistically cause the offense will be pushing the pace while Louisville would be content with field goals and conservative passing.

The more points you are able to put up on a team in college football the better your ranking could be. So even though most of their games were blowouts, at the end of the day they still ran a similar amount of plays and Johnny put up more points. Sorry I don't buy your "conservative" reasoning. Why would you need to be conservative in a blowout???