Quote:Typical hyperbole, the minute a players no longer a Jag they where never that good anyways 
Numerous times the AP has singled out Monroe as a top tier LT through out his career, numerous times PFF had him in the top 10 LT in the league, heck up until he was traded this same message board included him in the few players we SHOULD build around.
What do you want an official list of top 10 LT approved by the NFL? Well sense that doesn't exist and the consensus has been Monroe was a top 10 LT and your ONLY argument against that is his lack of Pro Bowl selections .gif "Laughing")
give me a break.
Caldwell made a call to spend the 2nd overall pick to replace a player at a position of strength, fine lets see how it plays out. When he made the selection people only bought it because he sold the line of needing 2 top tier OT to build the roster, now we're asking if it's ok to have an average online! You can't make this stuff up!
That was the biggest crock of bull I've ever seen. And what's funny is how the "Caldwell I trust" guys ate it up citing Tony Khan and his "analytical data", the same guy who took to Twitter to defend the Anger pick with analytics.
"2 premier tackles in today's league" "Getting ahead of the trend" ....pffff what a bunch of bologna.
Quote:That was the biggest crock of bull I've ever seen. And what's funny is how the "Caldwell I trust" guys ate it up citing Tony Khan and his "analytical data", the same guy who took to Twitter to defend the Anger pick with analytics.
"2 premier tackles in today's league" "Getting ahead of the trend" ....pffff what a bunch of bologna.
Gabbert only needs 2.1 more seconds
We just did that with this selection!
Quote:Gabbert only needs 2.1 more seconds We just did that with this selection!
I'm not sure what's worse, Gene Smith's drafting or Tony Khan's analytics :woot:
Monroe was a top 10 LT the last two years, and has been as elite as it gets since going to Baltimore. He had a rough couple games to start the season while trying to learn a new zone blocking scheme, with a QB who has zero pocket awareness, and playing alongside literally the worst player in the entire NFL in Rackley. Point is, he is very good but it was just time to move on for him. He was a good and loyal soldier for one of the dreariest regimes in NFL history and I'm happy he is excelling in a new situation better tailored to his skills.
<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PFF'>
Pro Football Focus
@<b>PFF</b></a><a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PFF/status/397454335715467264' title="12:04 PM - 4 Nov 13">4 Nov</a>
<p class="" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);">Eugene Monroe making himself some money this offseason. 3 starts with the Ravens have produced +7.8 grade, just 4 QB disruptions allowed
Quote:Monroe was a top 10 LT the last two years, and has been as elite as it gets since going to Baltimore. He had a rough couple games to start the season while trying to learn a new zone blocking scheme, with a QB who has zero pocket awareness, and playing alongside literally the worst player in the entire NFL in Rackley. Point is, he is very good but it was just time to move on for him. He was a good and loyal soldier for one of the dreariest regimes in NFL history and I'm happy he is excelling in a new situation better tailored to his skills.
<div style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);">Pro Football Focus @<b>PFF</b>4 Nov
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);">Eugene Monroe making himself some money this offseason. 3 starts with the Ravens have produced +7.8 grade, just 4 QB disruptions allowed
</div>
Monroe has a much better opportunity to develop into a pro bowler with the Ravens that he did with the Jags. Players just don't get better here ....
Quote:Monroe has a much better opportunity to develop into a pro bowler with the Ravens that he did with the Jags. Players just don't get better here ....
Exactly, which is also telling of a COACHING issue.
The Jags have had very weak assistants for the bulk of their coaching staffs for a long time now and spanning several regimes.
Quote:OK, understood. But if I may...
Not to get all logical here... But...
If poster A said during the time of the trade, this was a bad move
Then poster A posts a few weeks later that the trade looks to possibly be a good move considering the changing circumstances of the season as it has unfolded.
Would that not be considered "Changing one's mind"
Also, if poster A went from seeing the negative in a trade, then subsiquently chooses to point out some positives, would that not also be considered a change in mind set?
Look dude, you need to stop being so sensitive about what people say to you when discussing this team. Perhaps I was a bit snarky with my original comment, so I apologize about that. But I'm not here trying to lynch you or anything. Again, I was pointing out that you switched positions. Not a big deal. I change my mind constantly with this team. Usually happens onces every minute for 60 minutes on Sundays... Its all good. We're friends here.
No, because the mind or overall opinion isn't "changed". I have stated in now several posts, that I still take issue with the mis-management in the deal because they should have gotten more for Monroe. All I am doing here is trying to see the actual deal that played out for as positive as can be - and thats with the Ravens continued losing and the Jags getting the highest possible picks out of the deal.
Apparently though - you, ANgryDakota, and EFF BEE TEE have to find something to soil yourselves over however.
Quote:Exactly, which is also telling of a COACHING issue.
The Jags have had very weak assistants for the bulk of their coaching staffs for a long time now and spanning several regimes.
Time to let it go man.... let it go.
Quote:Time to let it go man.... let it go.
Let it go? Why its a major issue and has been for some time. Thats the problem - too many of you and I guess in the Jags upper front office continue to just gloss over this point and "let it go". The Jags lack of player development with rookies is also largely about the lack of quality assistant coaches.
Its no "coincidence" that the Jags HAVE been able to do a pretty good job developing WR's over the past several years....Shorts, Blackmon, and even seeing positive things out of guys like Mike Brown and Steven Burton....gee, funny how that happens when you have a guy like Jerry Sullivan as the WR coach who is definitely well regarded as a very good WR coach.
The Jags have had crap at DL coach, OL coach, LB coach (yes Duffner sucks), OC, DC, among other assitant coaching positions for years now. Its as big a problem as the poor drafting.
Quote:Tune's not changing, trade still was botched. I said that then, and still said it in this very post. You need to actually comprehend what you are reading. Too bad I couldn't type in crayon so perhaps you'd get it quicker....I am merely just trying to look at the deal from as positive an angle as can be given the circumstances.
Please leave clever, witty responses to those capable of actually crafting them.
You're not smart enough to come up with anything original. I think that's pretty well established, and this response is certainly illustrative of that fact.
You're spinning. That's all you're doing. And you are spinning because you have to hedge your bets in the event the trade actually turns out to be a good thing for this team. It's what you do. It's your shtick. Bash like crazy, but then start a thread not bashing for a brief moment so you can claim down the road that you supported it all along. Anyone here for more than a week with an IQ higher than shoe leather sees it.
Quote:Please leave clever, witty responses to those capable of actually crafting them.
You're not smart enough to come up with anything original. I think that's pretty well established, and this response is certainly illustrative of that fact.
You're spinning. That's all you're doing. And you are spinning because you have to hedge your bets in the event the trade actually turns out to be a good thing for this team. It's what you do. It's your shtick. Bash like crazy, but then start a thread not bashing for a brief moment so you can claim down the road that you supported it all along. Anyone here for more than a week with an IQ higher than shoe leather sees it.
As if you "coined" the phrase type in crayon....lol, get over yourself. If my response was unoriginal than so is 95% of your vocabulary.
I'm not spinning. I'm actually laying out there rather clearly that I still thought the deal was botched. That has remained consistent. If the deal turns out to be a good one for the Jags and bad one for the Ravens, I'll be wrong. There's no spinning. You and others, as said, just need something to soil themselves over here.
None of this matters if Monroe already made it known that he doesn't want to come back to be a Jaguar.
Franchising him was deemed not worth it. Draft picks for a team with this many holes are most valuable commodity.
Getting something rather than nothing is how this deal went down. I don't think a 4th and 5th, especially if the ravens end up missing the playoffs, is a bad deal for us. It's not a great deal, noone said it was, but it's not bad.
Quote:None of this matters if Monroe already made it known that he doesn't want to come back to be a Jaguar.
Franchising him was deemed not worth it. Draft picks for a team with this many holes are most valuable commodity.
Getting something rather than nothing is how this deal went down. I don't think a 4th and 5th, especially if the ravens end up missing the playoffs, is a bad deal for us. It's not a great deal, noone said it was, but it's not bad.
talking about changing tunes, just 2 pages ago you where schooling me on how Monroe wasn't even that good of a player!
Quote:talking about changing tunes, just 2 pages ago you where schooling me on how Monroe wasn't even that good of a player!
I'm not going to repeat myself. Nowhere did I say he's a bad player. I actually said multiple times that he's a pretty good player. A pretty good player with 12 games remaining on his contract here was traded for a 4th and 5th, which I believe is fair.
I did say that he's NOT elite, far from it, and that even if he IS in the top 10, he's more like the 9th or 10th guy that barely squeezed into this all-important top 10 list.
Quote:I'm not going to repeat myself. Nowhere did I say he's a bad player. I actually said multiple times that he's a pretty good player. A pretty good player with 12 games remaining on his contract here was traded for a 4th and 5th, which I believe is fair.
I did say that he's NOT elite, far from it, and that even if he IS in the top 10, he's more like the 9th or 10th guy that barely squeezed into this all-important top 10 list.
It's like clock work, ___ Player leaves the team for whatever reason
1.) ____ Player wasn't that good anyways, this board over rated him! He was "pretty good" then he was "average" or maybe the code word "decent"
2.) ____ Player didn't want to be here anymore, they would've never resigned here!
3.) _____ Player was apart of a 2-14 team he couldn't have been that good if the team sucked that bad!
and recycle...............
Quote:There's no way Eugene gets anywhere near #20 either unless we're strictly looking at pass protection. I think it gets overlooked just how dominating he was as a run blocker, and quite frankly just how much of a downgrade Cameron is in the run blocking department. If not top 10, Eugene is easily top 15. I could buy that he fits somewhere in the 9 to 14 range among starting left tackles.
He's tried to describe Monroe in 3 different ways in the thread alone, he has no clue. It's just the usual downplay a players value to justify a move.
Quote:THis is true, however, trade value isn't judged by how a player does AFTER the deal,
Sure it is. Where's the rule that says you can't judge a trade by who ends up getting the most out of it in the end? I think that's the
only way to judge a trade.
We actually won't know how we truly fared in this trade until the picks are made and subsequently developed. But why wait when we can just jump to the "Caldwell screwed up" insta-bash?
Monroe was rated a top ten LT (or somewhere near that) BEFORE the season as you've said. But he was playing well below that when Caldwell traded him. It's not like he was traded and then started playing worse.
Caldwell got decent value for him - and now it's starting to look like it may be "good" value. But - by all means - don't let this get in the way of your GM bashing.
(Or your OC bashing, or your HC bashing, or your FO bashing, or your scouting dept bashing, or .........)
Anyway, those two picks are indeed looking to be better than we previously expected - and kudos to you for recognizing it despite it detracting from your prior Caldwell bash-fest.