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Anyone with a brain can see we have a plan. That plan is to start a team of 4th rounders and Udfa's. This is not rebuilding to be a winning team. It is fielding the cheapest team possible, alienate the fans by perpetually losing, and moving the team due to lack of fan support. No team building ships away a quality 25 year old Lt. Period. You dont have to be the fire dept commissioner to recognize a

firesale burning your house to ashes.

Quote:LOL what?!?!?!?!

 

In 2012 Baltimore lost Ben Grubbs (after being voted to pro bowl in 2011), Jarret Johnson, Brandon McKinney, Haruki Nakamura, Cory Redding, and Timo Zbikowski all to free agency.

 

They only signed Sean Considine and Corey Graham......and you know what they got?

 

They got 4th round, 5th round, 6th round, and 7th round pick for compensatory before the 2013 draft........

 

In turn during that same year, Atlanta lost Kelvin Hayden, Curtis Lofton, James Sanders, and Eric Weems. They also didn't sign anyone and for 2013 compensatory picks they only got 4th and three 7th round picks.....

 

How are you figuring Eugene Monroe would net us a 3rd round pick...let alone 2??????

Finally a voice of reason.

 

Compensatory picks are nowhere near as much as we would "possibly" have gotten in free agency.  AND, it's almost certain we will sign several free agents this offseason - which would mean NO compensatory picks for Monroe.

 

Better to get a 4th and 5th than nothing.

Quote:Anyone with a brain can see we have a plan. That plan is to start a team of 4th rounders and Udfa's. This is not rebuilding to be a winning team. It is fielding the cheapest team possible, alienate the fans by perpetually losing, and moving the team due to lack of fan support. No team building ships away a quality 25 year old Lt. Period. You dont have to be the fire dept commissioner to recognize a

firesale burning your house to ashes.

 

That's a product of a brain?

Quote:Anyone with a brain can see we have a plan. That plan is to start a team of 4th rounders and Udfa's. This is not rebuilding to be a winning team. It is fielding the cheapest team possible, alienate the fans by perpetually losing, and moving the team due to lack of fan support. No team building ships away a quality 25 year old Lt. Period. You dont have to be the fire dept commissioner to recognize a

firesale burning your house to ashes.

Your point would have a thread of credibility if the Jags shopped Monroe looking for a trade, but all reports indicate otherwise. If they didn't see Monroe in their long term plans because he didn't fit with what they want to do, and a team offered multiple picks in trade for him in a contract year, at least they were able to capitalize on the situation to get something for him.


I never realized fire dept commissioners were the paragon of football intellect when it comes to come rely rebuilding a structure.

Quote:Anyone with a brain can see we have a plan. That plan is to start a team of 4th rounders and Udfa's. This is not rebuilding to be a winning team. It is fielding the cheapest team possible, alienate the fans by perpetually losing, and moving the team due to lack of fan support. No team building ships away a quality 25 year old Lt. Period. You dont have to be the fire dept commissioner to recognize a

firesale burning your house to ashes.

Do you think Monroe would have stayed in Jax next year? (very doubtful)   Do you think he was playing well in the ZBS?  (he wasn't)

 

Do you realize we would probably have gotten a 2015 compensatory 4th rounder for him and instead we got a fourth and a fifth this year that can be traded? 

 

I don't see this as a fire sale.  Just a long term plan. They might move one or two other guys that they see replacements for on the roster or in the draft.  But most of the gutting has taken place...   The fact that  two and maybe three of Caldwell's draft picks are looking like they may turn out to be quality starters in time and 2 of his FA pick-ups look to be better than average doesn't really help your theory much either.  

 

The secondary is the youngest position group and it's the one that has already taken on a bit of Bradley's identity. If that's the model - then this team will get younger still - but like this secondary, it'll hold lots of promise for the future. It  really sucks to have to wait another season to see offensive production - but that's where we stand currently. 

 

I wish they had gotten more for Monroe and won't defend every move Caldwell makes - but I really don't think this is a relocation conspiracy. 

I heard this same line being said when Cox left, when Smith left, and in most cases there are legitimate reasons why a team loses and gains players.

This is not one of those cases, this is a clear cut fire sale. A left tackle is one of the most valued peices of the puzzle, that is why they are drafted, #2 or #9, or #1.

Usually only a Qb is more important and we all know it, yet bury your heads and say this was a legitimate attempt at getting better. Give me a break.

 

We don't know if Monroe would have been here or not. From his twitter comments it sounded like he was surprised, and that the team never entered negotiations with him

You pay the players that are foundations in their mid twenties, especially a losing team rebuilding,you do not take a couple of 4th rounders who are doubtful to even make the team, for a recognized starting Tackle who is not injured or old. That is lunacy for a team, now we need a starting right tackle, I guess one of those 4th rounders will just fit in there?

 

So believe what you want, this move lacks any subtle hint of legitimate rebuilding.

It's a firesale when you don't pay or offer your starters a new contract, and start shipping them out one by one. We will indeed have the youngest team next year, and then when everyone whines about the losses and Bridgewater being hurt, we will be told we are the youngest team, give it time.

Then we will do it again next year. Then the year after.

For Pete's sake, wise, up, it's a business plan, and this business plan is to operate on the cheap.

To operate on the cheap is not about winning, it's about profit only.

Some owners are in this for the love of the game, passing it on to family, winning a championship. Do you think Khan is in this to win a championship? Seriously does anyone believe that still?

 This owners plan is building equity, and making the maximum buck for the minimum outlay while still here.

 

I don't think Left Tackle really is one of the most valued pieces of the puzzle.  Not to say that the Offensive Line isn't important -- it obviously is.  But the offensive line as a whole is more important than the Left Tackle.  We drafted Eugene Monroe when Gene started his tenure.  He's generally considered a Top 10 Left Tackle.  How has our Offensive Line been again?  Someone remind me.  It's been excellent right?

 

Oh wait, it hasn't.  

 

I think fans will continue to overvalue the position of Left Tackle for a while.  Eventually they'll catch on, and realize that what's really important is the line as a whole.  

 

GM's on the other hand seem to be catching on.  

 

To compound the issue -- players aren't worth as much in a trade as fans think they are usually.  Once in a while you'll have a team overpay for a player (Indianapolis with Richardson).  Which makes the issue worse because "Cleveland got a 1st for Richardson!".  But Runningbacks, despite losing a lot of value, still have a major impact on the game.  

 

Just look at the Cardinals/Steelers trade.  If LT was such a valued position, surely even for Levi Brown the Cardinals could have gotten a 7th rounder, and not had to pay his salary.  They basically said "Here, take this player!  We'll pay him to play for you, we just don't want him anymore.  Just give us a 7th if he happens to fulfill a certain condition! Please!"  I mean a 7th rounder is practically a UDFA -- and the steelers put a condition on it, and still the Cardinals pay his salary.

 

Face it.  LT's aren't as valued as they once were. 

Quote:I don't think Left Tackle really is one of the most valued pieces of the puzzle.  Not to say that the Offensive Line isn't important -- it obviously is.  But the offensive line as a whole is more important than the Left Tackle.  We drafted Eugene Monroe when Gene started his tenure.  He's generally considered a Top 10 Left Tackle.  How has our Offensive Line been again?  Someone remind me.  It's been excellent right?

 

Oh wait, it hasn't.  

 

I think fans will continue to overvalue the position of Left Tackle for a while.  Eventually they'll catch on, and realize that what's really important is the line as a whole.  

 

GM's on the other hand seem to be catching on.  

 

To compound the issue -- players aren't worth as much in a trade as fans think they are usually.  Once in a while you'll have a team overpay for a player (Indianapolis with Richardson).  Which makes the issue worse because "Cleveland got a 1st for Richardson!".  But Runningbacks, despite losing a lot of value, still have a major impact on the game.  

 

Just look at the Cardinals/Steelers trade.  If LT was such a valued position, surely even for Levi Brown the Cardinals could have gotten a 7th rounder, and not had to pay his salary.  They basically said "Here, take this player!  We'll pay him to play for you, we just don't want him anymore.  Just give us a 7th if he happens to fulfill a certain condition! Please!"  I mean a 7th rounder is practically a UDFA -- and the steelers put a condition on it, and still the Cardinals pay his salary.

 

Face it.  LT's aren't as valued as they once were. 

Left Tackles are unnecessary. Everyone knows this is a 4 OL league. Who needs a LT when you can have 2 QBs on the field at the same time. 

Anyone notice it's the same morons over and over condoning the ridiculous moves made by the Jags brass while hurling words like troll as if they're some sort of apostle. Just take a look back and you'll notice the same dopes habitually defending the same old stupid moves, talk about trolls.

Quote:I don't think Left Tackle really is one of the most valued pieces of the puzzle.  Not to say that the Offensive Line isn't important -- it obviously is.  But the offensive line as a whole is more important than the Left Tackle.  We drafted Eugene Monroe when Gene started his tenure.  He's generally considered a Top 10 Left Tackle.  How has our Offensive Line been again?  Someone remind me.  It's been excellent right?

 

Oh wait, it hasn't.  

 

I think fans will continue to overvalue the position of Left Tackle for a while.  Eventually they'll catch on, and realize that what's really important is the line as a whole.  

 

GM's on the other hand seem to be catching on.  

 

To compound the issue -- players aren't worth as much in a trade as fans think they are usually.  Once in a while you'll have a team overpay for a player (Indianapolis with Richardson).  Which makes the issue worse because "Cleveland got a 1st for Richardson!".  But Runningbacks, despite losing a lot of value, still have a major impact on the game.  

 

Just look at the Cardinals/Steelers trade.  If LT was such a valued position, surely even for Levi Brown the Cardinals could have gotten a 7th rounder, and not had to pay his salary.  They basically said "Here, take this player!  We'll pay him to play for you, we just don't want him anymore.  Just give us a 7th if he happens to fulfill a certain condition! Please!"  I mean a 7th rounder is practically a UDFA -- and the steelers put a condition on it, and still the Cardinals pay his salary.

 

Face it.  LT's aren't as valued as they once were. 

 

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as you did.  I think LTs are still highly valued.  I think you'll continue to see tackles taken at the top of round 1, unlike interior linemen (typically).

 

But, in our situation, the reality is that we do have a capable LT playing out of position, and Eugene was not playing well in this scheme.  With his contract being up this year, they were unlikely to re-sign him, especially since they'd have to overpay to do so. 

 

I do wish we could have gotten more for him, but I'm not that bothered by it.  Recognizing that an upcoming FA isn't in your plans and getting something for them is a move we didn't make in the past, when we really should have. 

 

Bottom line, we saved 10m dollars a year and picked up a 4th/5th.  If they use that money to sign a RT and a OC, I'd have understood letting Eugene walk anyway.  Then you add in the two draft picks, and I'm okay with that move.

Quote:I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as you did.  I think LTs are still highly valued.  I think you'll continue to see tackles taken at the top of round 1, unlike interior linemen (typically).

 

But, in our situation, the reality is that we do have a capable LT playing out of position, and Eugene was not playing well in this scheme.  With his contract being up this year, they were unlikely to re-sign him, especially since they'd have to overpay to do so. 

 

I do wish we could have gotten more for him, but I'm not that bothered by it.  Recognizing that an upcoming FA isn't in your plans and getting something for them is a move we didn't make in the past, when we really should have. 

 

Bottom line, we saved 10m dollars a year and picked up a 4th/5th.  If they use that money to sign a RT and a OC, I'd have understood letting Eugene walk anyway.  Then you add in the two draft picks, and I'm okay with that move.

 

Well yeah, LT's are still highly valued.  I wasn't arguing otherwise.  I was arguing that their value has declined.  They're no longer THE Piece with which to build your franchise on.  Which explains why we didn't get more out of it.  They'll still be taken in the early rounds because the value is still there.  On top of it, he's set to be a free agent at the end of the year.  Knowing the Jaguars likely won't re-sign him lowers his value a bit more.  

Quote:Anyone with a brain can see we have a plan. That plan is to start a team of 4th rounders and Udfa's. This is not rebuilding to be a winning team. It is fielding the cheapest team possible, alienate the fans by perpetually losing, and moving the team due to lack of fan support. No team building ships away a quality 25 year old Lt. Period. You dont have to be the fire dept commissioner to recognize a

firesale burning your house to ashes.

 

(yawn)

Quote:Well yeah, LT's are still highly valued.  I wasn't arguing otherwise.  I was arguing that their value has declined.  They're no longer THE Piece with which to build your franchise on.  Which explains why we didn't get more out of it.  They'll still be taken in the early rounds because the value is still there.  On top of it, he's set to be a free agent at the end of the year.  Knowing the Jaguars likely won't re-sign him lowers his value a bit more.  

 

Quote:Well yeah, LT's are still highly valued.  I wasn't arguing otherwise.  I was arguing that their value has declined.  They're no longer THE Piece with which to build your franchise on.  Which explains why we didn't get more out of it.  They'll still be taken in the early rounds because the value is still there.  On top of it, he's set to be a free agent at the end of the year.  Knowing the Jaguars likely won't re-sign him lowers his value a bit more.  

 

?????????

LT is highly valued.... but their value has declined..... but they will still be picked number 1 in the draft?

You are all over the place making absolutely no sense.

It's easier to admit you had a brain freeze than making these contortionist posts your fingers are typing. You're gonna break a digit.

 

The reason we got no value is most teams know that they don't have to give anything of value, the Jags WILL let a good player walk for money reasons. Despite being millions under the cap.

But for a really premium position, some team will give up a meaningless pick to get to the head of the line and not have to  get in a bidding war during FA. Then next year the player will be resettled in another city and more likely to sign a new deal with his new team. No family man is going to want to move twice in one year if the money's right.

 

Teams know they can scoop up our players, so they will not be giving away high or even 3rd round picks.

After Monroe, we will never get a decent trade again, for Caldwell is now known for giving away high priced players on the cheap.

The word gets around fast, the other GM's know which teams are playing the NFL version of "major league"

Quote:(yawn)

 

I agree, and so does most of the country. The Jags put everyone to sleep, Stations apologize for having to air our product.

It's sad what this franchise has become.

They'll still be taken number 1 because they're young, and cheap.  That much should be obvious.  But I suppose a terrible troll doesn't follow logic very well.

Quote:They'll still be taken number 1 because they're young, and cheap.  That much should be obvious.  But I suppose a terrible troll doesn't follow logic very well.

Apologist sheep eat where they're told.

Quote:Apologist sheep eat where they're told.

 

People keep calling you a TMD alternate.  I think that's being extremely unfair to TMD.  You're more likely a Krazy alternate.

 

I'm not an apologist.  I just don't lack the intelligence to realize that it takes more than an offseason to rebuild a team. 

Quote:They'll still be taken number 1 because they're young, and cheap.  That much should be obvious.  But I suppose a terrible troll doesn't follow logic very well.

 

Ok, that made even less sense than the first post. 

You don't get a free pass to post nonsense just because you insert the standard troll call out.

You're killing off brain cells trying to respond, and have too few to waste.

Quote:Ok, that made even less sense than the first post. 

You don't get a free pass to post nonsense just because you insert the standard troll call out.

You're killing off brain cells trying to respond, and have too few to waste.

You're right.  I'm killing off brain cells reading your posts. They make no sense logically nor grammatically.  Is English your first language?  

 

It's pretty easy to follow:


Left Tackles are losing value.

Because of this, teams aren't as willing to give their left tackles big contracts

Notice how the Dolphins didn't franchise Jake Long

They can get cheaper and younger Left Tackles in the draft, because the position is still important\

It just doesn't have the value that they once did

The Jaguars weren't going to sign Monroe to a big contract, just like the Dolphins didn't sign Jake Long to one

This meant that another team could easily have just waited until the end of the season, and given us nothing in return, except compensatory picks

Those compensatory picks would be lessened by signing more free agents, which we very likely plan to do.

 

If Spanish is your first language, and you understand it better, I can try using google translate.