11-17-2017, 08:34 AM
I'd take Mariota over Garropolo and Winston for sure, the other ones are tough but Mariota's in the conversation with them after Wentz who is clearly at the top I believe.
(11-16-2017, 05:30 PM)unf_nashvillian Wrote: [ -> ](11-16-2017, 05:20 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]He's tiny and he sucks.
That's all the analyzing that guy deserves.
Tom Brady - 6'4", 225
Aaron Rodgers - 6'2", 225
Peyton Manning - 6'5", 230
Marcus Mariota - 6'4", 222
Blake Bortles 6'5", 236
I don't understand the constant references to him being undersized.
(11-17-2017, 09:48 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ](11-16-2017, 05:30 PM)unf_nashvillian Wrote: [ -> ]Tom Brady - 6'4", 225
Aaron Rodgers - 6'2", 225
Peyton Manning - 6'5", 230
Marcus Mariota - 6'4", 222
Blake Bortles 6'5", 236
I don't understand the constant references to him being undersized.
If you think he weighs 222lbs, there's a bridge in Atlantis I want to sell you... it's top notch.
(11-17-2017, 08:30 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 08:10 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're way off.
Mariota was an elite prospect and was one of the best young QBs in the NFL last year. Unfortunately in the NFL development isn't linear. Players don't get better and better every year, sometimes due to circumstances they have a down year.
Mularkey's poor coaching has neutered Mariota this year. The scheme doesn't suit him, receivers aren't being schemed open. The run game isn't what it once was. Mariota is also playing fairly poorly by his own accord.
No Mariota "at his best" is a much better QB than Blake and is more advanced in most areas of QBing. More accurate, takes better care of the ball, better anticipation, better mechanics, better at reading the defense. If you polled 32 GMs on if they'd rather Mariota or Bortles you'd get 32 GMs telling you Mariota.
Down year, still a good young QB.
I think you're way off.
Whether any GM would take him ahead of Bortles doesn't mean anything, Bortles is not a franchise QB in my opinion, and neither is Mariota.
If you wanted to ask a more relevant question of them you'd ask which young QBs they'd want to have and maybe in what order.
I'd be surprised if Mariota were even in the top five asking a question like that.
You want him over Wentz? Goff? Carr? Garopolo? Prescott? Watson? Winston? I could see someone arguing he might be better than one or two of those guys. Then there's the ranks of guys that are already known to be franchise or elite level, is he above any of them?
Trying to argue he's better than Bortles is pointless, guys that aren't franchise quality are really just levels of bad, and that's the cast Mariota is in. Plus he's not yet played in every game of a season.
I'd love to see the titans double down on him, though, maybe give him another one of those Andrew Luck kind of contracts.
(11-17-2017, 10:15 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 08:30 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're way off.
Whether any GM would take him ahead of Bortles doesn't mean anything, Bortles is not a franchise QB in my opinion, and neither is Mariota.
If you wanted to ask a more relevant question of them you'd ask which young QBs they'd want to have and maybe in what order.
I'd be surprised if Mariota were even in the top five asking a question like that.
You want him over Wentz? Goff? Carr? Garopolo? Prescott? Watson? Winston? I could see someone arguing he might be better than one or two of those guys. Then there's the ranks of guys that are already known to be franchise or elite level, is he above any of them?
Trying to argue he's better than Bortles is pointless, guys that aren't franchise quality are really just levels of bad, and that's the cast Mariota is in. Plus he's not yet played in every game of a season.
I'd love to see the titans double down on him, though, maybe give him another one of those Andrew Luck kind of contracts.
You see you were comparing him to Bortles so I was showing that there is a gulf in quality between the two. Mariota is a franchise QB. Bortles isn't.
Yes I'd easily take Mariota over Winston and Jimmy G. Wentz is playing like an MVP candidate, Watson has been my favourite QB prospect ever. Goff and Dak are legit franchise guys too.
The titans would be wise to get proper coaching and put the right scheme around Mariota to maximize his strengths. We have seen Goff+Wentz flourish doing this.
(11-17-2017, 10:09 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]This. He might be pushing 215 on a good day. Most of that is upper body with his chicken legs. At nearly 6’4” and 215...skinny! I’m 6’1” 225 and would look pretty skinny minus 5-10 lbs. Yeah, he needs leg day for sure.(11-17-2017, 09:48 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]If you think he weighs 222lbs, there's a bridge in Atlantis I want to sell you... it's top notch.
Not just that, but he doesn't look an inch shorter than Bortles. Probably one of those cases of 6'3.5" in shoes rounded up and called 6'4".
Plus it matters where your weight is. Having strong joints is better than having weak small joints, which mariota seems to have. None of mariota's injuries have come on particularly vicious hits.
(11-17-2017, 10:15 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Yes I'd easily take Mariota over Winston and Jimmy G. Wentz is playing like an MVP candidate, Watson has been my favourite QB prospect ever. Goff and Dak are legit franchise guys too.
The titans would be wise to get proper coaching and put the right scheme around Mariota to maximize his strengths. We have seen Goff+Wentz flourish doing this.
(11-13-2017, 11:33 AM)CTEisREAL Wrote: [ -> ]Mariota is the only elite QB in this division.
(11-17-2017, 10:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 10:15 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Yes I'd easily take Mariota over Winston and Jimmy G. Wentz is playing like an MVP candidate, Watson has been my favourite QB prospect ever. Goff and Dak are legit franchise guys too.
The titans would be wise to get proper coaching and put the right scheme around Mariota to maximize his strengths. We have seen Goff+Wentz flourish doing this.
Regarding the bolded bit - I ranked Mariota and Garoppolo similarly when they came out respectively and still do.
I think Jimmy G will do pretty well when he gets his shot. (I liked Wentz, was a bit scared of Dak, and was really scared of Watson due to all the one read stuff in school)
Regarding the coaching/scheme for Mariota, I agree. He's being held back a bit. Though they are clearly smart about using the TE, I think they could tweak their playbook with the receivers to utilize Mariota better.
I think the high number of picks vs steelers was an exception to the rule for him. Only two of them were especially egregious errors on his part really.
I hope he keeps up the trend, but I think he's smart enough to learn from it.
(11-17-2017, 11:06 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 10:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the bolded bit - I ranked Mariota and Garoppolo similarly when they came out respectively and still do.
I think Jimmy G will do pretty well when he gets his shot. (I liked Wentz, was a bit scared of Dak, and was really scared of Watson due to all the one read stuff in school)
Regarding the coaching/scheme for Mariota, I agree. He's being held back a bit. Though they are clearly smart about using the TE, I think they could tweak their playbook with the receivers to utilize Mariota better.
I think the high number of picks vs steelers was an exception to the rule for him. Only two of them were especially egregious errors on his part really.
I hope he keeps up the trend, but I think he's smart enough to learn from it.
Is it scheme? He's never shown much throwing deep, and when you're limited as a QB there is less you can do with scheme.
I think the interesting comparison to Mariota is Prescott. They're in almost the same situation. Great offensive line, great running game, good enough defense, but Prescott doesn't need excuses all over the place because he went to the playoffs from year one in a strong division and gave the Packers all they could handle.
Mariota, meanwhile, is in year three in a weak division and hasn't made it through a season, much less take his team to the playoffs.
Mariota is fine if you're good with a game manager, the Jaguars could probably continue to get similar results taking Bortles into coming seasons. However I don't think Jaguars fans will be happy with it unless the team carries him to a Superbowl, and I'm not sure how much longer titans fans will be happy with mediocrity when they have elite facets on their team, either.
(11-17-2017, 10:20 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I'm good with that. I mean I'd much prefer if Mariota stank because it makes our life easier(11-17-2017, 10:15 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]You see you were comparing him to Bortles so I was showing that there is a gulf in quality between the two. Mariota is a franchise QB. Bortles isn't.
Yes I'd easily take Mariota over Winston and Jimmy G. Wentz is playing like an MVP candidate, Watson has been my favourite QB prospect ever. Goff and Dak are legit franchise guys too.
The titans would be wise to get proper coaching and put the right scheme around Mariota to maximize his strengths. We have seen Goff+Wentz flourish doing this.
Fine, you're on record that you think he's a franchise QB, I'm on record saying I don't think he is, and that his career is more like game manager, like Bortles this year, than franchise passer.
If we're all still around in a few years we can see if you were right or not.
(11-17-2017, 10:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 10:15 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Yes I'd easily take Mariota over Winston and Jimmy G. Wentz is playing like an MVP candidate, Watson has been my favourite QB prospect ever. Goff and Dak are legit franchise guys too.
The titans would be wise to get proper coaching and put the right scheme around Mariota to maximize his strengths. We have seen Goff+Wentz flourish doing this.
Regarding the bolded bit - I ranked Mariota and Garoppolo similarly when they came out respectively and still do.
I think Jimmy G will do pretty well when he gets his shot. (I liked Wentz, was a bit scared of Dak, and was really scared of Watson due to all the one read stuff in school)
Regarding the coaching/scheme for Mariota, I agree. He's being held back a bit. Though they are clearly smart about using the TE, I think they could tweak their playbook with the receivers to utilize Mariota better.
I think the high number of picks vs steelers was an exception to the rule for him. Only two of them were especially egregious errors on his part really.
I hope he keeps up the trend, but I think he's smart enough to learn from it.
(11-17-2017, 11:06 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 10:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the bolded bit - I ranked Mariota and Garoppolo similarly when they came out respectively and still do.
I think Jimmy G will do pretty well when he gets his shot. (I liked Wentz, was a bit scared of Dak, and was really scared of Watson due to all the one read stuff in school)
Regarding the coaching/scheme for Mariota, I agree. He's being held back a bit. Though they are clearly smart about using the TE, I think they could tweak their playbook with the receivers to utilize Mariota better.
I think the high number of picks vs steelers was an exception to the rule for him. Only two of them were especially egregious errors on his part really.
I hope he keeps up the trend, but I think he's smart enough to learn from it.
Is it scheme? He's never shown much throwing deep, and when you're limited as a QB there is less you can do with scheme.
(11-17-2017, 11:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 11:06 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Is it scheme? He's never shown much throwing deep, and when you're limited as a QB there is less you can do with scheme.
I think they could get some things out of the playbook that don't play to his strengths and then beef up/add wrinkles to the things that do. Definitely.
He struggles with shallow stuff to the sidelines. (saw that last night - but the stats show it clearly as well)
He's good in the middle of the field, shallow, intermediate and deep. They need to use that even more. He's terrible throwing deep to his right and great throwing deep to his left. They should probably develop a way to take more shots to that side.
This is just the most obvious stuff without digging deep.
(11-17-2017, 12:15 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 11:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]This is just the most obvious stuff without digging deep.
Also that second int last night was as bad as any I've seen Bortles throw. Stared his guy down, should have seen the defender breaking on it and threw it anyway. He made the tackle because he knew it was a pick the moment it left his hand.
(11-17-2017, 12:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-17-2017, 12:15 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Also that second int last night was as bad as any I've seen Bortles throw. Stared his guy down, should have seen the defender breaking on it and threw it anyway. He made the tackle because he knew it was a pick the moment it left his hand.
I agree. It was also thrown to one of those ugly red low percentage spots on his completion grid that I'm talking about. He has a rating of 50.4 or something like that throwing to that area. That kind of thing can be schemed/planned away from.
(11-17-2017, 12:43 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I have little idea where he'll ultimately fall on the spectrum of game manager/franchise/elite etc.(11-17-2017, 12:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. It was also thrown to one of those ugly red low percentage spots on his completion grid that I'm talking about. He has a rating of 50.4 or something like that throwing to that area. That kind of thing can be schemed/planned away from....do you think you've seen something in three years to tell you Mariota is a Luck/roethlisberger/Brady/Brees/Carr/Wilson/etc?