Quote:I think Gus and Dave missed one fundamental thing in the rebuild, a very basic tenant of leadership.
I think they did a LOT of good in changing the culture......and then Gus blew it this year.
You CANNOT be a good guy, caring and cuddling type then switch to a disciplinarian. It doesn't work. And when it doesn't work, and you look like you are going back on your own principles, it can fail spectacularly. I think that is a large part of what has happened here.
I don't blame or completely blame Dave for wanting a guy like Gus here during the rebuild, as it is on Gus to make that change to something that works.
Leadership is a tough, tough thing. It is why Belichick is so amazing. Those guys CONSISTENTLY believe they will win, because they BELIEVE they should and will. Smoking Houston with a 3rd string U of F reject? Come on......
It is also why we see teams come in here licking their chops, because they believe they will beat us and we will fold, even when they are the 32nd ranked defense, suddenly they have their hair on fire against us.
Yep, couldn't agree more.
right on point nate
#leadershipmatters
What is it about the last three years of Coughlin's time with the Giants that has you all excited? That they wore coats and ties on the road?
Did no one notice the clock management issues he had? How many games they lost in the last quarter?
Old Tom would have been crucified by the Junior Head Coaches who post on here. But he's a leader!
Look, I thought Weaver was a genius for hiring Coughlin in the mid-90s, but any coach has to have talent. Belicheck wasn't such a great leader in Cleveland and I don't assume Old Tom will be so great in Jacksonville.
Quote:right on point nate
#leadershipmatters
Leadership matters ... until you get fired.
I know the first thing I do when I break up with someone is run back to the old flame I haven't seen for 15 years and essentially drool all over them until they take me back.
If I broke up with a 10, and then followed up with some 1's and 2's, then I gladly take that 10 back.
If we bring back Coughlin and draft Fournette my excitement will be reignited. That said, I still think Blake is a problem and he is too far gone to be fixed here. I think regardless of what happens we will be in the Rosen Bowl next year.
And yes I understand the urge to run back to something you have had success with in the past during a time of failure is extremely strong and basic human nature, so I get why people would want him and even why it might happen...I just think it will turn out unsuccessful.
Maybe in some kind of advisory position, almost like a Lamping of the football side. But as head coach, give me someone else please.
Quote:What is it about the last three years of Coughlin's time with the Giants that has you all excited? That they wore coats and ties on the road?
Did no one notice the clock management issues he had? How many games they lost in the last quarter?
Old Tom would have been crucified by the Junior Head Coaches who post on here. But he's a leader!
Look, I thought Weaver was a genius for hiring Coughlin in the mid-90s, but any coach has to have talent. Belicheck wasn't such a great leader in Cleveland and I don't assume Old Tom will be so great in Jacksonville.
The fact that you don't approve of this hire makes it even more clear that it is the right move.
#reversethecurse
Quote:Leadership matters ... until you get fired.
Almost all of them get fired at some point.
That is why the people who are so relentless in the complaining about this player or that coach crack me up.
Year after year the complaining, until at some point.... whether it is year 9 or year 2, they can then stand on the mountain and profess how smart they are for wanting...say Coughlin, or JDR, or Koeter, etc.. fired.
Very few Lomardi, Cowher, or Vermeil's out there.
Quote:People keep calling him a disciplinarian like Odell didnt try to kill Norman under his watch
This is why I say no to Coughlin. How he handled the Beckham and JPP situations is all I need to know that the game has passed him bye.
Quote:This is why I say no to Coughlin. How he handled the Beckham and JPP situations is all I need to know that the game has passed him bye.
I don't understand the who "game has passed him by" thing. What exactly has changed in the game that TC can't handle? Are you implying that a modern day HC needs to have the ability to control divas?
Quote:I don't understand the who "game has passed him by" thing. What exactly has changed in the game that TC can't handle? Are you implying that a modern day HC needs to have the ability to control divas?
He had a tough go of it in NY on two separate occasions in terms of relating to the younger players and respecting the vets.
After a few years he had a near mutiny on his hands and then later after the rings had lost some lustre the whole thing happened all over again. Each time the front office had to ask him to tone down the authoritarian vibe.
Him being out of touch with the modern pro athlete is not some made up fairy tale. I like the guy a lot, but I'd rather him have a front office advising role than take over such a young roster.
Could he come in and get these underachieving bozos coached up? Maybe. I can't be certain.
I'd just rather find an experienced coach that's got a few less generational gaps between him and the core of this team.
Quote:I don't understand the who "game has passed him by" thing. What exactly has changed in the game that TC can't handle? Are you implying that a modern day HC needs to have the ability to control divas?
Watched a lot of Giant games and he basically had no defense that could come up with big stops towards the end of the season. IMO he overstayed about 2 years too late.
And to answer your question, yes he does not have the temperment to deal with today's divas or athletes.
Quote:He had a tough go of it in NY on two separate occasions in terms of relating to the younger players and respecting the vets.
After a few years he had a near mutiny on his hands and then later after the rings had lost some lustre the whole thing happened all over again. Each time the front office had to ask him to tone down the authoritarian vibe.
Him being out of touch with the modern pro athlete is not some made up fairy tale. I like the guy a lot, but I'd rather him have a front office advising role than take over such a young roster.
Could he come in and get these underachieving bozos coached up? Maybe. I can't be certain.
I'd just rather find an experienced coach that's got a few less generational gaps between him and the core of this team.
Maybe I am just not seeing things clearly because unfortunately, I'm at a level of apathy now and more in a mindset of "how much worse can it get".
He simply doesn't have the energy or time (any contribution would be for the remainder of the season, max) to really accomplish anything.
The only thing bringing him back would do is satisfy some folks' desires for false nostalgia.
That is, until he adds his share to the pile of losses to put the final nail in the Coughlin of the remainder of the season.
Quote:Maybe I am just not seeing things clearly because unfortunately, I'm at a level of apathy now and more in a mindset of "how much worse can it get".
I can certainly relate to that feeling.
Quote:He simply doesn't have the energy or time (any contribution would be for the remainder of the season, max) to really accomplish anything.
The only thing bringing him back would do is satisfy some folks' desires for false nostalgia.
That is, until he adds his share to the pile of losses to put the final nail in the Coughlin of the remainder of the season.
I'm not going to pretend that Coughlin's shtick doesn't wear thin toward the end of his coaching tenures, but you can't ignore the success he had in the first half of both his coaching stops.
I disagree that the game has passed him by and he at least deserves a look in January.
Quote:I'm not going to pretend that Coughlin's shtick doesn't wear thin toward the end of his coaching tenures, but you can't ignore the success he had in the first half of both his coaching stops.
I disagree that the game has passed him by and he at least deserves a look in January.
I'm not ignoring the past at all.
Which, is precisely the point. His days are behind him. His time coaching is over. Those days are in, and belong in, the past.
Quote:Maybe I am just not seeing things clearly because unfortunately, I'm at a level of apathy now and more in a mindset of "how much worse can it get".
I said I would pass on him as HC, but even I would admit it's not "how much worse can it get". He would be better than Gus.
I just don't think he would be better than someone like Haley, McDaniels, or Shanahan for example.