(03-21-2018, 03:07 PM)oQuarterback Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 02:32 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]My guess is that only Dave and the crew really know lol
If NFLPA can't be trusted, no one can, lol.
https://twitter.com/1010XLTyler/status/9...5296088069
Wow 22 million lol
(03-21-2018, 03:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 02:25 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]So does anyone have a running tally?
The websites are saying between 13-18 mil but 1010xl said we have about 22-24 mil
I've seen such widely disparate numbers thrown around that I don't really trust any figure at this point.
I imagine the pressers leading up to or following the draft will help reveal more info on this - and maybe a hint at what Cough-Well and Idzik are strategizing with the cap in 2019 and beyond.
Yeah that sounds about right. It’s so early in the offseason
(03-21-2018, 03:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 02:25 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]So does anyone have a running tally?
The websites are saying between 13-18 mil but 1010xl said we have about 22-24 mil
I've seen such widely disparate numbers thrown around that I don't really trust any figure at this point.
I imagine the pressers leading up to or following the draft will help reveal more info on this - and maybe a hint at what Cough-Well and Idzik are strategizing with the cap in 2019 and beyond.
Completely agree.
Whether injuries or cap, we don't know and it's nearly impossible for us to know. We don't have enough information to know. More reason why not to get too caught up in it.
(03-21-2018, 03:10 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 08:40 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is the more likely scenario, unless they're looking at a backup QB.
Would this be for a trade up in draft for a qb possibly?
From what I can see as far as the estimated rookie pool cap hit for the first round picks, the difference between our current pick and the first pick overall is about 4 mil. So we have freed up much more money than needed to trade up.
https://overthecap.com/draft/
(03-21-2018, 03:30 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:10 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Would this be for a trade up in draft for a qb possibly?
From what I can see as far as the estimated rookie pool cap hit for the first round picks, the difference between our current pick and the first pick overall is about 4 mil. So we have freed up much more money than needed to trade up.
https://overthecap.com/draft/
There is no way we have the ammo to get into the top 3. If we are looking to move up to get a QB, its prob going to be a QB that slides to the 15-20 range.
(03-21-2018, 03:32 PM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:30 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]From what I can see as far as the estimated rookie pool cap hit for the first round picks, the difference between our current pick and the first pick overall is about 4 mil. So we have freed up much more money than needed to trade up.
https://overthecap.com/draft/
There is no way we have the ammo to get into the top 3. If we are looking to move up to get a QB, its prob going to be a QB that slides to the 15-20 range.
I was just referring to the cap cost in response to the poster wondering if we were freeing up money to trade up. Cap wise we have freed up 3 or 4 times more money than we would need to sign the first overall pick.
Basically I'm just saying the cap space we have created doesn't really correlate with an intention to trade up.
I just don’t see many free agents still available who might need that sort of money (maybe with the exception of Suh?) so it’s either putting money aside for next year, or there is a trade being planned which might need some cap room.
The idea of giving up players for draft picks has been discussed, but could we be considering giving up draft picks for a player currently under contract somewhere?
But even then, I’m struggling to think who it might be. Eli Manning? Jacoby Brissett? All seems a bit unlikely.
But then it’s been an off season of surprises...
(03-21-2018, 03:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:32 PM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ]There is no way we have the ammo to get into the top 3. If we are looking to move up to get a QB, its prob going to be a QB that slides to the 15-20 range.
I was just referring to the cap cost in response to the poster wondering if we were freeing up money to trade up. Cap wise we have freed up 3 or 4 times more money than we would need to sign the first overall pick.
Basically I'm just saying the cap space we have created doesn't really correlate with an intention to trade up.
One could say it gives the team flexibility in the event of a trade up AND still frees up money to be rolled over next year for other contract extensions. It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
(03-21-2018, 04:01 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I was just referring to the cap cost in response to the poster wondering if we were freeing up money to trade up. Cap wise we have freed up 3 or 4 times more money than we would need to sign the first overall pick.
Basically I'm just saying the cap space we have created doesn't really correlate with an intention to trade up.
One could say it gives the team flexibility in the event of a trade up AND still frees up money to be rolled over next year for other contract extensions. It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
One could also say they already had the cap space to move up if they wanted to so the additional space they freed up has nothing to do with their intent to move up.
(03-21-2018, 04:01 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I was just referring to the cap cost in response to the poster wondering if we were freeing up money to trade up. Cap wise we have freed up 3 or 4 times more money than we would need to sign the first overall pick.
Basically I'm just saying the cap space we have created doesn't really correlate with an intention to trade up.
One could say it gives the team flexibility in the event of a trade up AND still frees up money to be rolled over next year for other contract extensions. It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
On top of that, why would you worry about freeing up the money before you make the trade? You only are required to have the space free when you sign them not when you draft them.
(03-21-2018, 11:21 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 10:33 AM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]This is kind of a weird restructure. Telvin didn't take a pay cut in any way and I would assume the team's plans are for him to play his entire contract. It will free up some money this year, but if you roll it over, it will eventually catch up with subsequent signing bonus money. This looks more geared for some sort of move for this year - whether it be some other contract restructuring to push more money onto this year for players that may not see the end of their contracts and have guaranteed money deep into it... Or some unforeseen trade/signing.
Actually, this was a very common restructure. Teams have been doing this since the salary cap was created.
The only weird thing about it is that it appears the Jags don't need the cap space.
I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
(03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 11:21 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, this was a very common restructure. Teams have been doing this since the salary cap was created.
The only weird thing about it is that it appears the Jags don't need the cap space.
I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
Then you didn't read my earlier post.
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018, and it had to be done now because it was a roster bonus that had to be either paid or restructured.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
(03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 11:21 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, this was a very common restructure. Teams have been doing this since the salary cap was created.
The only weird thing about it is that it appears the Jags don't need the cap space.
I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
You already said it yourself.
It does something for the future
if they increase the 2018 cap hit for someone like Dareus or Campbell. Then they are looking at less dead money when they are released in 2019 or 2020.
They'd rather those 2019/2020 cap dollars be spent on players that actually take the field in those seasons (telvin) than on dead cap expenditure for a potentially released player. (Campbell and/or Dareus)
(03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 11:21 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, this was a very common restructure. Teams have been doing this since the salary cap was created.
The only weird thing about it is that it appears the Jags don't need the cap space.
I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
The timing of these moves give me the feeling that they plan on making some sort of player acquisition here soon.
Considering there isn't much left on the FA market, perhaps a trade is in the works.
(03-21-2018, 05:03 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
The timing of these moves give me the feeling that they plan on making some sort of player acquisition here soon.
No, the timing was mandatory, because they were going to have to pay the roster bonus or restructure. They had to do it now. And like I said:
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
The timing was mandatory if they were going to get the $6 million in extra cap room to roll over to next year. They had to do it now.
They had a choice: an $8 million cap hit in 2018, or a $2 million cap hit in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. See how that produces cap room in 2019? Take the $8 million off 2018, add back the $2 million, you have $6 million to carry forward. Then take the $6 million you carried forward in 2019, minus the $2 million from restructuring, and that saves $4 million in 2019, and adds $2 million to 2020 and 2021.
The timing is now, because the roster bonus is now. If they want to create cap room in 2019, by taking cap room away from 2020 and 2021, they had to do it now. Because once the roster bonus is paid, they can't do it. They're so far over any projected cap for 2019, they have to take every opportunity to create some 2019 cap space or else cut even more players than they had planned to cut.
(03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
You already said it yourself.
It does something for the future if they increase the 2018 cap hit for someone like Dareus or Campbell. Then they are looking at less dead money when they are released in 2019 or 2020.
They'd rather those 2019/2020 cap dollars be spent on players that actually take the field in those seasons (telvin) than on dead cap expenditure for a potentially released player. (Campbell and/or Dareus)
They don't need to do that. Increasing the cap hit for Dareus or Campbell is completely unnecessary, because if they don't use the cap space on that, then the cap space can be carried forward. It doesn't help at all to do that.
(03-21-2018, 05:05 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:03 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]The timing of these moves give me the feeling that they plan on making some sort of player acquisition here soon.
No, the timing was mandatory, because they were going to have to pay the roster bonus or restructure. They had to do it now. And like I said:
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
The timing was mandatory if they were going to get the $6 million in extra cap room to roll over to next year. They had to do it now.
They had a choice: an $8 million cap hit in 2018, or a $2 million cap hit in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. See how that produces cap room in 2019? Take the $8 million off 2018, add back the $2 million, you have $6 million to carry forward. Then take the $6 million you carried forward in 2019, minus the $2 million from restructuring, and that saves $4 million in 2019, and adds $2 million to 2020 and 2021.
The timing is now, because the roster bonus is now. If they want to create cap room in 2019, by taking cap room away from 2020 and 2021, they had to do it now.
I was thinking his roster bonus was a June 1st thing.
If their intent was just to save 4 mil on next year's cap, why didn't they restructure before it was due? Why did they wait until after releasing Hurns and Lewis to then retroactively restructure Smith?
The timing still hints that the jags are working on some sort of player acquisition and need the cap space soon.
(03-21-2018, 05:40 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:05 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]No, the timing was mandatory, because they were going to have to pay the roster bonus or restructure. They had to do it now. And like I said:
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
The timing was mandatory if they were going to get the $6 million in extra cap room to roll over to next year. They had to do it now.
They had a choice: an $8 million cap hit in 2018, or a $2 million cap hit in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. See how that produces cap room in 2019? Take the $8 million off 2018, add back the $2 million, you have $6 million to carry forward. Then take the $6 million you carried forward in 2019, minus the $2 million from restructuring, and that saves $4 million in 2019, and adds $2 million to 2020 and 2021.
The timing is now, because the roster bonus is now. If they want to create cap room in 2019, by taking cap room away from 2020 and 2021, they had to do it now.
I was thinking his roster bonus was a June 1st thing.
If their intent was just to save 4 mil on next year's cap, why didn't they restructure before it was due? Why did they wait until after releasing Hurns and Lewis to then retroactively restructure Smith?
The timing still hints that the jags are working on some sort of player acquisition and need the cap space soon.
This doesn't have anything to do with Lewis and Hurns. I don't see the connection there.
As for it being for additional player acquisition, we are so far over the 2019 cap with our current roster that we need to create some rollover space to avoid major cuts to the roster. We have already created cap space by cutting Lewis and Hurns and restructuring Telvin. If we spend all that cap space now, that would be like maxing out your credit cards, applying for another card, and maxing that one out, too. We have to start thinking about 2019.
I am also surprised that they are allowed to change the contract structure 3 days after it paid out. Typically the pay dates are hard contractual deadlines and you are bound to the terms of the contract once it is fulfilled.
A little bit of a head scratcher considering the way NFL contracts typically work.
(03-21-2018, 05:47 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:40 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking his roster bonus was a June 1st thing.
If their intent was just to save 4 mil on next year's cap, why didn't they restructure before it was due? Why did they wait until after releasing Hurns and Lewis to then retroactively restructure Smith?
The timing still hints that the jags are working on some sort of player acquisition and need the cap space soon.
This doesn't have anything to do with Lewis and Hurns. I don't see the connection there.
As for why now and not in May? Because they have a lot to do in May, including signing about 20 rookies and street free agents. And why not now? It has to be done. Get it over with.
You don't see the connection? They didn't see the need to restructure until after they released Hurns and Lewis. It's been three days since they paid it. I doubt the FO lacked the foresight to have just suddenly come up with the idea if there wasn't more to it than pushing money forward. That's a very odd and direct connection.
(03-21-2018, 05:49 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I am also surprised that they are allowed to change the contract structure 3 days after it paid out. Typically the pay dates are hard contractual deadlines and you are bound to the terms of the contract once it is fulfilled.
A little bit of a head scratcher considering the way NFL contracts typically work.
I don't think that just because it was reported today means that it was done today. The way Yates' tweet reads to me as that they did it sometime prior to it kicking in, probably a day or two before. Odd that it took a few days for anyone to see it and report on it, but that was my interpretation of his tweet.