(03-21-2018, 05:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:47 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]This doesn't have anything to do with Lewis and Hurns. I don't see the connection there.
As for why now and not in May? Because they have a lot to do in May, including signing about 20 rookies and street free agents. And why not now? It has to be done. Get it over with.
You don't see the connection? They didn't see the need to restructure until after they released Hurns and Lewis. It's been three days since they paid it. I doubt the FO lacked the foresight to have just suddenly come up with the idea if there wasn't more to it than pushing money forward. That's a very odd and direct connection.
You may be right. If the Jags go out and sign Suh then it would prove your point. But let me propose an alternate explanation.
Most of the time before free agency must have been spent negotiating with Robinson, Lee, and Colvin, and preparing for free agency itself. Then there was the week of negotiating free agent contracts. The past week was probably spent trying to convince Lewis and Hurns to take pay cuts, and that was only a consideration after the Jags signed free agent replacements. And had the Jags struck out in free agency they might not have needed to restructure Telvin. Maybe this just happened to be the first time available to take care of three less-pressing matters.
(03-21-2018, 07:56 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]You don't see the connection? They didn't see the need to restructure until after they released Hurns and Lewis. It's been three days since they paid it. I doubt the FO lacked the foresight to have just suddenly come up with the idea if there wasn't more to it than pushing money forward. That's a very odd and direct connection.
You may be right. If the Jags go out and sign Suh then it would prove your point. But let me propose an alternate explanation.
Most of the time before free agency must have been spent negotiating with Robinson, Lee, and Colvin, and preparing for free agency itself. Then there was the week of negotiating free agent contracts. The past week was probably spent trying to convince Lewis and Hurns to take pay cuts, and that was only a consideration after the Jags signed free agent replacements. And had the Jags struck out in free agency they might not have needed to restructure Telvin. Maybe this just happened to be the first time available to take care of three less-pressing matters.
They have had a couple of months to restructure Telvin so I don't understand why it would have had to be a last minute thing unless it wasn't something they were planning on doing.
I highly doubt they are going after Suh. Maybe they have stumbled across a possible trade opportunity. Maybe it's just coincidence. Who knows.
(03-21-2018, 08:03 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder who they are targeting with all that new money?
Jalen, Yannick, and/or Folwer. I think they can roll that money over. There are a lot of in house stars ready for a contract soon.
(03-21-2018, 09:53 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 08:03 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder who they are targeting with all that new money?
Jalen, Yannick, and/or Folwer. I think they can roll that money over. There are a lot of in house stars ready for a contract soon.
IMO Jalen is the top priority and Yannick is second.
Myles is next if he continues to develop
(03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
Then you didn't read my earlier post.
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018, and it had to be done now because it was a roster bonus that had to be either paid or restructured.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
Right, but it's untouchable money that you have to keep rolling over for the next 3 years. You save $6 million this year and roll it over. You rollover $6 million and spend $2 million prorated next year for a net of $4 million savings. But, you can't touch that $4 million next year either. If you do, you essentially add $2 million per year over the final two years to the cap. Like I said, it's a pointless and weird restructure unless they plan on doing something with the extra cap space this season.
(03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
You already said it yourself.
It does something for the future if they increase the 2018 cap hit for someone like Dareus or Campbell. Then they are looking at less dead money when they are released in 2019 or 2020.
They'd rather those 2019/2020 cap dollars be spent on players that actually take the field in those seasons (telvin) than on dead cap expenditure for a potentially released player. (Campbell and/or Dareus)
Aye. Just saying the restructure in and of itself w/o any moves during this season does nothing for us in the future.
(03-21-2018, 10:08 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You already said it yourself.
It does something for the future if they increase the 2018 cap hit for someone like Dareus or Campbell. Then they are looking at less dead money when they are released in 2019 or 2020.
They'd rather those 2019/2020 cap dollars be spent on players that actually take the field in those seasons (telvin) than on dead cap expenditure for a potentially released player. (Campbell and/or Dareus)
Aye. Just saying the restructure in and of itself w/o any moves during this season does nothing for us in the future.
Yeah - I believe I've talked myself in circles trying to make sense of this one.
As it stands - I have to wonder if they were clearing space to sign LB Navorro Bowman to play Poz's former role or perhaps a mid-tier vet QB.
(03-21-2018, 10:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 10:08 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Aye. Just saying the restructure in and of itself w/o any moves during this season does nothing for us in the future.
Yeah - I believe I've talked myself in circles trying to make sense of this one.
As it stands - I have to wonder if they were clearing space to sign LB Navorro Bowman to play Poz's former role or perhaps a mid-tier vet QB.
If Bowman is a target I most certainly wouldn’t mind. He’d be a solid vet signing and would add some of that leadership ability we’ve lost the past few days with the recent roster shuffling.
It just has the feeling of a trade coming. Idk.
A bunch'o Sherlocks, u lot
(03-21-2018, 10:08 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Then you didn't read my earlier post.
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018, and it had to be done now because it was a roster bonus that had to be either paid or restructured.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
Right, but it's untouchable money that you have to keep rolling over for the next 3 years. You save $6 million this year and roll it over. You rollover $6 million and spend $2 million prorated next year for a net of $4 million savings. But, you can't touch that $4 million next year either. If you do, you essentially add $2 million per year over the final two years to the cap. Like I said, it's a pointless and weird restructure unless they plan on doing something with the extra cap space this season.
(03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You already said it yourself.
It does something for the future if they increase the 2018 cap hit for someone like Dareus or Campbell. Then they are looking at less dead money when they are released in 2019 or 2020.
They'd rather those 2019/2020 cap dollars be spent on players that actually take the field in those seasons (telvin) than on dead cap expenditure for a potentially released player. (Campbell and/or Dareus)
Aye. Just saying the restructure in and of itself w/o any moves during this season does nothing for us in the future.
No, again you miss my point.
This restructure, if they don't spend the money this season, adds 4 million in cap space for 2019, while subtracting 2 million in cap space for 2020 and 2021. What this does is buy them time in 2019. We are so far over the 2019 cap that this move allows them to borrow some cap space from 2020 and 2021 in order to give themselves some time to straighten out the payroll without having to cut even more players in 2019 than they would have. By 2020 and 2021 they could have themselves in better order. Of course, in and of itself, this move doesn't solve the problem. They need to do a whole lot of little things like this to get some cap room in 2019.
It's probably something they planned to do from the time Telvin signed the original contract, because converting the roster bonus to signing bonus so it can be prorated does not hurt them in any way. It just gives them extra flexibility with the payroll.
On the other hand, you may be right. They may be planning on using the cap space they've created, going even further over next year's cap, and blowing up the roster in 2019. I hope not.
(03-21-2018, 05:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 04:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not talking about the actual restructure itself. I'm talking about the fact that it seems like a pointless restructure unless moves are made this season. This restructure does nothing for us in the future.
Then you didn't read my earlier post.
It frees up about $4 million in cap space for 2019 by spreading out the cap hit for the $8 million over 4 years instead of having it all in 2018, and it had to be done now because it was a roster bonus that had to be either paid or restructured.
Mathematically, it works like this: the cap hit for the roster bonus for 2018 was $8 million. Now it's all spread out, over 4 years, at 2 million per year. That saves $6 million this season, which can be rolled over to next season. The $6 million rollover, minus the $2 million in amortization for 2019, yields a cap savings of $4 million for 2019, and an extra cap hit in 2020 and 2021 of $2 million per year.
(03-22-2018, 05:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 10:08 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Right, but it's untouchable money that you have to keep rolling over for the next 3 years. You save $6 million this year and roll it over. You rollover $6 million and spend $2 million prorated next year for a net of $4 million savings. But, you can't touch that $4 million next year either. If you do, you essentially add $2 million per year over the final two years to the cap. Like I said, it's a pointless and weird restructure unless they plan on doing something with the extra cap space this season.
Aye. Just saying the restructure in and of itself w/o any moves during this season does nothing for us in the future.
No, again you miss my point.
This restructure, if they don't spend the money this season, adds 4 million in cap space for 2019, while subtracting 2 million in cap space for 2020 and 2021. What this does is buy them time in 2019. We are so far over the 2019 cap that this move allows them to borrow some cap space from 2020 and 2021 in order to give themselves some time to straighten out the payroll without having to cut even more players in 2019 than they would have. By 2020 and 2021 they could have themselves in better order. Of course, in and of itself, this move doesn't solve the problem. They need to do a whole lot of little things like this to get some cap room in 2019.
It's probably something they planned to do from the time Telvin signed the original contract, because converting the roster bonus to signing bonus so it can be prorated does not hurt them in any way. It just gives them extra flexibility with the payroll.
On the other hand, you may be right. They may be planning on using the cap space they've created, going even further over next year's cap, and blowing up the roster in 2019. I hope not.
This makes little sense for two reasons.
One, with next year's salary cap increase and the rollover money pre Telvin Smith, we aren't that far away from the cap - maybe 7 or 8 millionish depending on the rest of the season. That's only a couple of contracts being cut or restructured for a pay cut.
And B, this reasoning would indicate that they plan on making a run for 2018 and 2019 and then likely begin a rebuild in 2020. The reason we are so far under the cap in 2020 is because we only have 20 players under contract. If we start pushing cap into those years we aren't going to be very competitive.
The good teams do this all the time. It keeps them cap healthy and gives them the room to re-sign whether now or if used as such in rollover.
It happens with a player on good terms who is willing to rework their deal.
Brady gets restructured about every year it seems.
It's mostly much ado about nothing.
(03-22-2018, 11:09 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]The good teams do this all the time. It keeps them cap healthy and gives them the room to re-sign whether now or if used as such in rollover.
It happens with a player on good terms who is willing to rework their deal.
Brady gets restructured about every year it seems.
It's mostly much ado about nothing.
This
It's what you do with players you are confident want to keep on the roster for a long time. Keep pushing the cap hit into the last year of his deal then when the final year comes extend his contract and shift the cash
I think the design is to allow us to sign jack and ngokue to new deals in 2019. We only really have fowler and maybe Yeldon to resign from the 2015 class
We are loading up for this "window" while still setting up for us to keep Yannick , Ramsey, Jack etc etc and thus extending how long we can actually compete for.
The fear about the cap is not based in reality. Sure there will be losses, but that happens to 32/32 teams.
(03-21-2018, 03:07 PM)oQuarterback Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 02:32 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]My guess is that only Dave and the crew really know lol
If NFLPA can't be trusted, no one can, lol.
https://twitter.com/1010XLTyler/status/9...5296088069
The tweet calls them releases. So does that mean the Jaguars will not receive compensatory draft picks? If the team declining these "options" means releasing the player followed by no compensatory picks, the Jaguars should really refrain from writing contracts with the option year.
In the past I can see where compensatory picks were not such a big deal, but as I understand it, compensatory draft picks are trade-able.
I take a dimmer view of Caldwell for letting veterans walk away and NOT getting anything back for them. Struggling with cap space means mis-management.
Having 22 million dollars of cap space with all the talent we have is not mismanaging the cap. Honestly this is possibly the best cap management job I have witnessed in the past 3-4 years in my entire football viewing life. Getting Gipson, Jackson, Campbell, Church, Bouye and Norwell (all pro bowl/all pro caliber players) is nothing short of a miracle even on madden.
Just saw Idzik at Publix. He is 91% sure that this contract restructure was good for the team.
(03-22-2018, 02:47 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Just saw Idzik at Publix. He is 91% sure that this contract restructure was good for the team.
Just 91% eh?
(03-22-2018, 01:25 PM)JUNGLE CAT 2017 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:07 PM)oQuarterback Wrote: [ -> ]If NFLPA can't be trusted, no one can, lol.
https://twitter.com/1010XLTyler/status/9...5296088069
The tweet calls them releases. So does that mean the Jaguars will not receive compensatory draft picks? If the team declining these "options" means releasing the player followed by no compensatory picks, the Jaguars should really refrain from writing contracts with the option year.
In the past I can see where compensatory picks were not such a big deal, but as I understand it, compensatory draft picks are trade-able.
I take a dimmer view of Caldwell for letting veterans walk away and NOT getting anything back for them. Struggling with cap space means mis-management.
With all the money we spent this year we weren’t getting a comp pick. The Norwell and Lee deal alone trumps losing ARob and Colvin.
(03-22-2018, 01:25 PM)JUNGLE CAT 2017 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2018, 03:07 PM)oQuarterback Wrote: [ -> ]If NFLPA can't be trusted, no one can, lol.
https://twitter.com/1010XLTyler/status/9...5296088069
The tweet calls them releases. So does that mean the Jaguars will not receive compensatory draft picks? If the team declining these "options" means releasing the player followed by no compensatory picks, the Jaguars should really refrain from writing contracts with the option year.
In the past I can see where compensatory picks were not such a big deal, but as I understand it, compensatory draft picks are trade-able.
I take a dimmer view of Caldwell for letting veterans walk away and NOT getting anything back for them. Struggling with cap space means mis-management.
The Jaguars didn't decline any options. Hurns' contract did not even have an option and wasn't yet up, and they paid Marcedes' option. We could have maybe got a comp pick for Marcedes if they opted to not pay his option, but at the time we weren't sure of our TE situation and thought keeping him longer for $250,000 was worth it.