(09-10-2018, 12:01 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 09:50 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]
Sorry but just a weak back handed BB5 slap when we just won the season opener. Not thread worthy.
It's actually not. I've finally come to the realization about our situation. Bortles is what he is. I fully support him, because I have no other choice. From what we see now, there is no good free agent QB's who will be available after this season and the QB class of 2019 sucks. Blake is our QB and I will roll with him and cheer him on. We got our opening day win and I'm thrilled. Just because you imagine "what if", doesn't mean you can't fully support your current situation. You've never fantasized about having "the perfect team" in Jacksonville?
The only "What if" I can think of is What if we had gone out and grabbed Alex Smith in the offseason. That is the move I wanted to make, and based on week 1, I still feel this way.
(09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t have both though. Elite QBs cost a ton of money. Money that the Jags gave to Campbell, Dareus, Jackson and Bouye. Money that will end up going to Yan, Jack and Ramsey.
Elite QB or elite defense. Can’t have both.
Give me and elite defense and average to slightly above average QB all day.
(09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t have both though. Elite QBs cost a ton of money. Money that the Jags gave to Campbell, Dareus, Jackson and Bouye. Money that will end up going to Yan, Jack and Ramsey.
Elite QB or elite defense. Can’t have both.
Actually, you can. You just can't have it for a long period of time. If you get a good, young QB at the beginning of his first deal, he'll be cheap for a 2-3 year window. It's after that, you'll have to start paying up and cutting big name defensive players. When that happens, you have to be very smart about how you draft on defense to replace those players. So far, we've done a great job drafting on the defensive side of the football. We have a lot of players in place to eventually take over for older stars and when the time comes for us to cut those players, we should still be in pretty good shape.
At the end of the day, the Jaguars formula took us to the AFC Championship. Maybe in 5 years we will have a superstar QB and a mediocre defense, and we don't go to the AFC Championship. There are a lot of ways to win. Lets just enjoy this team for what it is. We are Sacksonville right now, we're 1st in the South, and we have a really good shot at the Patriots next week.
Bortles is what he is, and he is paid based on who he is also. The defense is what it is. We are going to make a run at the super bowl this year.
I imagine we would still be 1-0.
I think Bortles is poised for serious improvement. Is it going to be top of the league stuff? Nope but what will it be like for this team? It will be great for us. WRs need to stop dropping and killing drives. We need to stop extending the other teams drives with defensive penalties. Coaching staff needs to up their game and work out plans that can adapt when/if we miss players (aka Fornette).
(09-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]are you guys actually serious? You think borltes played fine? Are you watching the same games? Go look what rodgers did last night, that is real QB play. Obvioulsy bortles isnt that, but to say he played fine yesterday is INSANE
we punted SEVEN TIMES IN THE 2ND HALF.... S E V E N
once fournette went out, besides the 1 drive before the half, the offense was DONE.
he had multiple balls tipped, there was a play or 2 that he should have absolutely been intercepted, he threw a 3rd down pass about 10 yards out of bounds (not intentionally), another 3rd down a crossing route was wide open for a 1st down and he threw it low starting right in front of a lineman who easily just batted it down. There were a couple of times he could have tucked the ball and ran, but for some reason he seems to only run now on designed runs and improvises far less.
He didn't play horrendously, but we once again won despite him, not because of him, as per the usual
11 penalties for 119 yards didn't help much either their chief. Especially when your left tackle gets flagged not once, not twice but I believe three times on third and short for false starts which made them all third and long. Moncrief dropped a 1st down yesterday. So did Westbrook. Norwell also negated a perfect TD pass which we ended up settling for three on.
You can have your little petty agenda about Blake but it's a two way street though. We clearly weren't watching the same game. I am not saying Bortles was perfect. But his teammates were far from perfect as well on both sides of the football.
Play calling needs to get better. We didn't see any of that dual back formation stuff from pre season at all. We didn't see Chark out there at all. They rarely ran the football out of the I-formation with a fullback lead blocking. Instead they keep trying to get cute on 2nd downs out of the spread or shotgun formation and the RB's are getting eaten alive.
And stop comparing Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers to any QB in the NFL. He's Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers. There's maybe three QB's in the NFL that are truly Elite. He's probably the top of that list. Brady has a better team around him than Rodgers. Brees has always been a great passer. After you get past those three you got some guys that can win you some games and damn near cost you some games. Like Ryan in ATL and Roethlisberger in PIT. Can probably add Wilson to that list too out of SEA.
After you get past them. That's about it. It's anyone's guess. Newton was meh yesterday. Prescott sucked. Alex Smith was okay. Mahomes had a big day. Trubisky was okay. Flacco beat up a [BLEEP] team with no QB. Taylor did okay. Jimmy G sucked. Cousins did okay. I mean. You can go back and look.
(09-10-2018, 12:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t have both though. Elite QBs cost a ton of money. Money that the Jags gave to Campbell, Dareus, Jackson and Bouye. Money that will end up going to Yan, Jack and Ramsey.
Elite QB or elite defense. Can’t have both.
Actually, you can. You just can't have it for a long period of time. If you get a good, young QB at the beginning of his first deal, he'll be cheap for a 2-3 year window. It's after that, you'll have to start paying up and cutting big name defensive players. When that happens, you have to be very smart about how you draft on defense to replace those players. So far, we've done a great job drafting on the defensive side of the football. We have a lot of players in place to eventually take over for older stars and when the time comes for us to cut those players, we should still be in pretty good shape.
Outside of maybe Wentz, what QB is elite on his rookie deal?
Big win yesterday. We tend to lose road NFC games. I knew if we won the game it wouldn't be pretty. But we won, and we did it without having Fournette most of the game again. We also did it with OBJ getting the better of Ramsey surprisingly.
(09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t have both though. Elite QBs cost a ton of money. Money that the Jags gave to Campbell, Dareus, Jackson and Bouye. Money that will end up going to Yan, Jack and Ramsey.
Elite QB or elite defense. Can’t have both.
This.
Now if they can get the best out of Bortles, you guys will be hard to beat. Like those teams with the elite qb's getting their defense to play well, not giving up big plays etc..
(09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t have both though. Elite QBs cost a ton of money. Money that the Jags gave to Campbell, Dareus, Jackson and Bouye. Money that will end up going to Yan, Jack and Ramsey.
Elite QB or elite defense. Can’t have both.
Idk man, I think Minnesota would say otherwise.... But I'm not defending the op either. Bortles can play better, but he also is making big plays when needed (ie the big run and some 1st down passes). I think of everything with our offense, the play calling is the most worrisome....
(09-10-2018, 01:30 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You can’t have both though. Elite QBs cost a ton of money. Money that the Jags gave to Campbell, Dareus, Jackson and Bouye. Money that will end up going to Yan, Jack and Ramsey.
Elite QB or elite defense. Can’t have both.
Idk man, I think Minnesota would say otherwise.... But I'm not defending the op either. Bortles can play better, but he also is making big plays when needed (ie the big run and some 1st down passes). I think of everything with our offense, the play calling is the most worrisome....
Cousins sure is getting paid like he’s elite but he’s not.
(09-10-2018, 01:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 01:30 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]Idk man, I think Minnesota would say otherwise.... But I'm not defending the op either. Bortles can play better, but he also is making big plays when needed (ie the big run and some 1st down passes). I think of everything with our offense, the play calling is the most worrisome....
Cousins sure is getting paid like he’s elite but he’s not.
This. And in a few years when they need to resign some of those pieces on defense they won't be able to BECAUSE of Cousins. Can't have both. At least not for long. And Cousins is not elite. He beat up a SF team that's still rebuilding. Jimmy G may have been paid big bucks prematurely too.
I want to see what he does against Green Bay and Detroit. And if Chicago can play defense like they did last night in that first half (They got beat by Rodgers. It's okay. He's Rodgers) he'll have a hard time getting through them too.
(09-10-2018, 11:35 AM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ]Punting 7 times is not on BB5 that is on the OC and the crappy play calling and running up the middle.
he had 2 balls tipped 1 he was throwing in the ground as the screen was covered and the DE was 3 ft from him and got his hand on it.
1 of the 2 that should have been interecepted was a good ball but a better play be the DB they get payed to play too and are pretty good.
The ball 10 yards out of bound on 3rd down was a great play when everyone was covered and your being chased dont take teh sack toss out of bounds punt get defense back out there. that shows the maturity he has gained
ok ill give you the he should run more, there were alot of instances he could have taken off but didnt
you realize the play calling may seem suspect because the coaches ARE AFRAID TO LET HIM AIR IT OUT because it usually results in interceptions. Look at his play in the preseason still making the same boneheaded "oops i just didnt see that LB standing there" plays
the playcalling seems bad because when the game is on the line, no one in that building trusts him to do what a legit QB does and make a play
it is so painfully obvious that this is the case, like I dont understand why some jags fans continue to deny reality and defend anyone or anything on this team that isnt up to par
yes the run game struggled without fournette, but that is because the giants STILL STACKED THE BOX even with fournette out because NO OPPOSING TEAM is afraid of bortles
what does that say if a team still stacks the box on you when your starting RB is out?
(09-10-2018, 11:42 AM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]are you guys actually serious? You think borltes played fine? Are you watching the same games? Go look what rodgers did last night, that is real QB play. Obvioulsy bortles isnt that, but to say he played fine yesterday is INSANE
we punted SEVEN TIMES IN THE 2ND HALF.... S E V E N
once fournette went out, besides the 1 drive before the half, the offense was DONE.
he had multiple balls tipped, there was a play or 2 that he should have absolutely been intercepted, he threw a 3rd down pass about 10 yards out of bounds (not intentionally), another 3rd down a crossing route was wide open for a 1st down and he threw it low starting right in front of a lineman who easily just batted it down. There were a couple of times he could have tucked the ball and ran, but for some reason he seems to only run now on designed runs and improvises far less.
He didn't play horrendously, but we once again won despite him, not because of him, as per the usual
Maybe we should define "fine".
I don't think "fine" means first ballot hall of fame.
I would obviously trade BB for Rodgers in a heartbeat. That being said, Rodgers just missed most of the last season and looks banged up already this year. Bortles doesn't have injury issues. Just saying.
Bortles performance yesterday did not change anyone's opinion on who he is. While he isn't going to be the reason we win a super bowl, he plays with a salary that allows us to pay this defense.
rodgers one 1 leg in 1 half of football did more and made more plays and throws than bortles has in the last 2 or 3 years... just sayin
bortles aint coming back from a 20-0 deficit on a college team let alone an NFL team with as good a defense as chicago
(09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of maybe Wentz, what QB is elite on his rookie deal?
What if instead of doubling (or tripling?) down on our average at best and coming off an awful 2016 QB Dave had decided to pull an Andy Reid and taken Mahomes instead of a running back top 5.
Reid even had a legitimate above average QB at the time and still made the bold move to trade 2 1sts to replace him. Oh yeah and if we had done that maybe we still wind up with a Hunt, Kamara, Mixon, or Cook in the 2nd round.
(09-10-2018, 12:24 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]are you guys actually serious? You think borltes played fine? Are you watching the same games? Go look what rodgers did last night, that is real QB play. Obvioulsy bortles isnt that, but to say he played fine yesterday is INSANE
we punted SEVEN TIMES IN THE 2ND HALF.... S E V E N
once fournette went out, besides the 1 drive before the half, the offense was DONE.
he had multiple balls tipped, there was a play or 2 that he should have absolutely been intercepted, he threw a 3rd down pass about 10 yards out of bounds (not intentionally), another 3rd down a crossing route was wide open for a 1st down and he threw it low starting right in front of a lineman who easily just batted it down. There were a couple of times he could have tucked the ball and ran, but for some reason he seems to only run now on designed runs and improvises far less.
He didn't play horrendously, but we once again won despite him, not because of him, as per the usual
11 penalties for 119 yards didn't help much either their chief. Especially when your left tackle gets flagged not once, not twice but I believe three times on third and short for false starts which made them all third and long. Moncrief dropped a 1st down yesterday. So did Westbrook. Norwell also negated a perfect TD pass which we ended up settling for three on.
You can have your little petty agenda about Blake but it's a two way street though. We clearly weren't watching the same game. I am not saying Bortles was perfect. But his teammates were far from perfect as well on both sides of the football.
Play calling needs to get better. We didn't see any of that dual back formation stuff from pre season at all. We didn't see Chark out there at all. They rarely ran the football out of the I-formation with a fullback lead blocking. Instead they keep trying to get cute on 2nd downs out of the spread or shotgun formation and the RB's are getting eaten alive.
And stop comparing Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers to any QB in the NFL. He's Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers. There's maybe three QB's in the NFL that are truly Elite. He's probably the top of that list. Brady has a better team around him than Rodgers. Brees has always been a great passer. After you get past those three you got some guys that can win you some games and damn near cost you some games. Like Ryan in ATL and Roethlisberger in PIT. Can probably add Wilson to that list too out of SEA.
After you get past them. That's about it. It's anyone's guess. Newton was meh yesterday. Prescott sucked. Alex Smith was okay. Mahomes had a big day. Trubisky was okay. Flacco beat up a [BLEEP] team with no QB. Taylor did okay. Jimmy G sucked. Cousins did okay. I mean. You can go back and look.
I agree the O-line was atrocious, absolutely, and that didnt help
and it doesnt have to be rodgers, i can pull up plenty of qb's that would help this team have an easier time winning, A LOT
agenda against blake?? what are you talking about, just because someone calls underperforming players out we have an agenda vs them? I dont know blake from anyone else, i have nothing against him in any way outside of him constantly making games harder for us that they need to be
fact is, this team's play calling looks bad because our QB doesnt give them much confidence, fact is, he continues to get balls batted down on routine short throws, fact is he does not use his legs near enough, probably his greatest asset tbh... fact is, he is still prone to stupid throws and interceptions, he just got lucky again yesterday that some were dropped
(09-10-2018, 01:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 01:30 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]Idk man, I think Minnesota would say otherwise.... But I'm not defending the op either. Bortles can play better, but he also is making big plays when needed (ie the big run and some 1st down passes). I think of everything with our offense, the play calling is the most worrisome....
Cousins sure is getting paid like he’s elite but he’s not.
Good god guys. The difference between Bortles (10, 21, 23) and Cousins (24, 29, 31) is not "keep elite defense vs can't keep elite defense". It's less than one good player difference. Yannick and Ramsey themselves are going to double the difference between the two.
I don't know why I chose that post to quote instead of one of the others, but the point was the same.
its funny...
I had an "agenda" against gene smith
I had an "agenda" against mularkey
I had an "agenda" against gus bradley
I had an "agenda" against gabbert
now I have an "agenda" against bortles
hilarious... even funnier is all the people accusing others of an agenda against those people, now laugh about how bad those guys were and how glad they are they are gone
never stops
(09-10-2018, 01:57 PM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2018, 12:24 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]11 penalties for 119 yards didn't help much either their chief. Especially when your left tackle gets flagged not once, not twice but I believe three times on third and short for false starts which made them all third and long. Moncrief dropped a 1st down yesterday. So did Westbrook. Norwell also negated a perfect TD pass which we ended up settling for three on.
You can have your little petty agenda about Blake but it's a two way street though. We clearly weren't watching the same game. I am not saying Bortles was perfect. But his teammates were far from perfect as well on both sides of the football.
Play calling needs to get better. We didn't see any of that dual back formation stuff from pre season at all. We didn't see Chark out there at all. They rarely ran the football out of the I-formation with a fullback lead blocking. Instead they keep trying to get cute on 2nd downs out of the spread or shotgun formation and the RB's are getting eaten alive.
And stop comparing Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers to any QB in the NFL. He's Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers. There's maybe three QB's in the NFL that are truly Elite. He's probably the top of that list. Brady has a better team around him than Rodgers. Brees has always been a great passer. After you get past those three you got some guys that can win you some games and damn near cost you some games. Like Ryan in ATL and Roethlisberger in PIT. Can probably add Wilson to that list too out of SEA.
After you get past them. That's about it. It's anyone's guess. Newton was meh yesterday. Prescott sucked. Alex Smith was okay. Mahomes had a big day. Trubisky was okay. Flacco beat up a [BLEEP] team with no QB. Taylor did okay. Jimmy G sucked. Cousins did okay. I mean. You can go back and look.
I agree the O-line was atrocious, absolutely, and that didnt help
and it doesnt have to be rodgers, i can pull up plenty of qb's that would help this team have an easier time winning, A LOT
agenda against blake?? what are you talking about, just because someone calls underperforming players out we have an agenda vs them? I dont know blake from anyone else, i have nothing against him in any way outside of him constantly making games harder for us that they need to be
fact is, this team's play calling looks bad because our QB doesnt give them much confidence, fact is, he continues to get balls batted down on routine short throws, fact is he does not use his legs near enough, probably his greatest asset tbh... fact is, he is still prone to stupid throws and interceptions, he just got lucky again yesterday that some were dropped
You assume too much. The play calling is inconsistent. They showed you that clearly on offense in the AFCC earlier this year. They went from being on the attack to being overly conservative in the second half. Bortles did enough against Buffalo and bailed this team out more than once against Pittsburgh before that AFCC game.
As far as him not using his legs enough? What are you talking about? He's in the top five or some [BLEEP] like that in all time YPC on average at the position. He runs enough when he has to. He's a QB. Not a RB. You keep throwing your little facts out there while leaving out key plot points like the fact that this is his 2nd year now under Marrone and that he was severely held back along with the rest of this team thanks to Bradley's "wonderful" time here.
Fact is he entered this year coming off his highest completion percentage in a season. Fact is he had us one game away from a Superbowl. Fact is the kid bailed out this defense when he had to. Fact is he doesn't have a Gronkowski to throw the football to. He doesn't have an all star coach like Belichick. He doesn't get to play inside a dome eight or nine teams a year. And he never got to sit for three years behind a HoF QB. This is also his second year in a row now with receivers that are either done for the year on IR or have less than two years of experience on their belt.
We can play patty cake all day over "facts". But here's the biggest fact you need to recognize. He's our QB. Whether you like him or not. And it's important that you remember that it's not ALWAYS his fault out there when this team doesn't hang up a 40 burger. Because it gives off the perception that you do have an agenda against him. You can't harp on a few plays here and there while also failing to address the lack of overall discipline which put him in those holes to make those obvious pass attempts to begin with.
We'll see what happens. I'll eat my crow if the kid starts stinking it up. But I just don't see that happening.