Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-10-2018, 01:52 PM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]you realize the play calling may seem suspect because the coaches ARE AFRAID TO LET HIM AIR IT OUT because it usually results in interceptions.  Look at his play in the preseason still making the same boneheaded "oops i just didnt see that LB standing there" plays

the playcalling seems bad because when the game is on the line, no one in that building trusts him to do what a legit QB does and make a play

it is so painfully obvious that this is the case, like I dont understand why some jags fans continue to deny reality and defend anyone or anything on this team that isnt up to par

yes the run game struggled without fournette, but that is because the giants STILL STACKED THE BOX even with fournette out because NO OPPOSING TEAM is afraid of bortles

what does that say if a team still stacks the box on you when your starting RB is out?

---

rodgers one 1 leg in 1 half of football did more and made more plays and throws than bortles has in the last 2 or 3 years... just sayin

bortles aint coming back from a 20-0 deficit on a college team let alone an NFL team with as good a defense as chicago

Oh sweet jesus man. If the team didnt trust Bortles to throw the ball, he wouldn't be the QB. 

You are still comparing Bortles to ARod. A one legged Rodgers is still a HOF QB. I love how everyone says "We need a Rodgers, or Brady, or Elite QB" Well no [BLEEP] sherlock. Everyone wants one.

Oh, and....

(09-10-2018, 02:06 PM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]its funny...

I had an "agenda" against gene smith

I had an "agenda" against mularkey

I had an "agenda" against gus bradley

I had an "agenda" against gabbert

now I have an "agenda" against bortles

hilarious... even funnier is all the people accusing others of an agenda against those people, now laugh about how bad those guys were and how glad they are they are gone

never stops

(09-10-2018, 01:55 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 11:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of maybe Wentz, what QB is elite on his rookie deal?

What if instead of doubling (or tripling?) down on our average at best and coming off an awful 2016 QB Dave had decided to pull an Andy Reid and taken Mahomes instead of a running back top 5.

Reid even had a legitimate above average QB at the time and still made the bold move to trade 2 1sts to replace him. Oh yeah and if we had done that maybe we still wind up with a Hunt, Kamara, Mixon, or Cook in the 2nd round.

Hindsight is great...ain't it?

(09-10-2018, 02:30 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Hindsight is great...ain't it?

He asked the question I gave an answer. And I am very much on record saying Mahomes was the QB1 out of that class. Just because it's true in hindsight doesn't mean there weren't a ton of people saying that Bortles shouldn't be handed the job after his awful 2016, or that RB top 5 was unwise, in foresight also.

Those quarterbacks are also highly paid. Zero chance you keep this defense together when you have a qb with a massive contract.

(09-10-2018, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 02:30 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Hindsight is great...ain't it?

He asked the question I gave an answer. And I am very much on record saying Mahomes was the QB1 out of that class. Just because it's true in hindsight doesn't mean there weren't a ton of people saying that Bortles shouldn't be handed the job after his awful 2016, or that RB top 5 was unwise, in foresight also.

I guess we'll have to see how Mahomes plays out then.  He's played all of one game.

(09-10-2018, 02:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 01:57 PM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]I agree the O-line was atrocious, absolutely, and that didnt help

and it doesnt have to be rodgers, i can pull up plenty of qb's that would help this team have an easier time winning, A LOT

agenda against blake?? what are you talking about, just because someone calls underperforming players out we have an agenda vs them?  I dont know blake from anyone else, i have nothing against him in any way outside of him constantly making games harder for us that they need to be

fact is, this team's play calling looks bad because our QB doesnt give them much confidence, fact is, he continues to get balls batted down on routine short throws, fact is he does not use his legs near enough, probably his greatest asset tbh... fact is, he is still prone to stupid throws and interceptions, he just got lucky again yesterday that some were dropped

You assume too much. The play calling is inconsistent. They showed you that clearly on offense in the AFCC earlier this year. They went from being on the attack to being overly conservative in the second half. Bortles did enough against Buffalo and bailed this team out more than once against Pittsburgh before that AFCC game. 

As far as him not using his legs enough? What are you talking about? He's in the top five or some [BLEEP] like that in all time YPC on average at the position. He runs enough when he has to. He's a QB. Not a RB. You keep throwing your little facts out there while leaving out key plot points like the fact that this is his 2nd year now under Marrone and that he was severely held back along with the rest of this team thanks to Bradley's "wonderful" time here. 

Fact is he entered this year coming off his highest completion percentage in a season. Fact is he had us one game away from a Superbowl. Fact is the kid bailed out this defense when he had to. Fact is he doesn't have a Gronkowski to throw the football to. He doesn't have an all star coach like Belichick. He doesn't get to play inside a dome eight or nine teams a year. And he never got to sit for three years behind a HoF QB. This is also his second year in a row now with receivers that are either done for the year on IR or have less than two years of experience on their belt.

We can play patty cake all day over "facts". But here's the biggest fact you need to recognize. He's our QB. Whether you like him or not. And it's important that you remember that it's not ALWAYS his fault out there when this team doesn't hang up a 40 burger. Because it gives off the perception that you do have an agenda against him. You can't harp on a few plays here and there while also failing to address the lack of overall discipline which put him in those holes to make those obvious pass attempts to begin with.

We'll see what happens. I'll eat my crow if the kid starts stinking it up. But I just don't see that happening.

everything you say is an excuse for him

I realize he is our QB, and every time he drops back, I hope for a completion or a TD like any other jag fan.  That doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what is actually happening though, and unable to criticize like you.  If that means I have an agenda then fine lol, whatever you got to say to make yourself feel better.

I never said we needed 40 points a game, I also never said he hasn't had good games.  In fact, I have mentioned that if he played like he did during our run last year late in the year and into the playoffs, we would be fine at QB, however, that is unfortunately the outlier in his performances, as a few games does not mean that is who he is when a larger sample size says otherwise.

He was not awful yesterday, in fact some of his throws were really good, and HE ACTUALLY THROWS A SPIRAL NOW THAT HE HAD SURGERY, that in and of itself is an improvement.

but no matter what you say, we were held back by our QB yesterday, and our O-line.  We won because of our defense again, which is fine, but bortles HAS to play better than yesterday if this team is going to reach its goal of a superbowl, if you cant see that or admit that, well then, go on ahead being a homer that's fine, doesn't change reality

I'm going to Imagine Dragons and pretend I didn't see this thread.

(09-10-2018, 03:01 PM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 02:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You assume too much. The play calling is inconsistent. They showed you that clearly on offense in the AFCC earlier this year. They went from being on the attack to being overly conservative in the second half. Bortles did enough against Buffalo and bailed this team out more than once against Pittsburgh before that AFCC game. 

As far as him not using his legs enough? What are you talking about? He's in the top five or some [BLEEP] like that in all time YPC on average at the position. He runs enough when he has to. He's a QB. Not a RB. You keep throwing your little facts out there while leaving out key plot points like the fact that this is his 2nd year now under Marrone and that he was severely held back along with the rest of this team thanks to Bradley's "wonderful" time here. 

Fact is he entered this year coming off his highest completion percentage in a season. Fact is he had us one game away from a Superbowl. Fact is the kid bailed out this defense when he had to. Fact is he doesn't have a Gronkowski to throw the football to. He doesn't have an all star coach like Belichick. He doesn't get to play inside a dome eight or nine teams a year. And he never got to sit for three years behind a HoF QB. This is also his second year in a row now with receivers that are either done for the year on IR or have less than two years of experience on their belt.

We can play patty cake all day over "facts". But here's the biggest fact you need to recognize. He's our QB. Whether you like him or not. And it's important that you remember that it's not ALWAYS his fault out there when this team doesn't hang up a 40 burger. Because it gives off the perception that you do have an agenda against him. You can't harp on a few plays here and there while also failing to address the lack of overall discipline which put him in those holes to make those obvious pass attempts to begin with.

We'll see what happens. I'll eat my crow if the kid starts stinking it up. But I just don't see that happening.

everything you say is an excuse for him

I realize he is our QB, and every time he drops back, I hope for a completion or a TD like any other jag fan.  That doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what is actually happening though, and unable to criticize like you.  If that means I have an agenda then fine lol, whatever you got to say to make yourself feel better.

I never said we needed 40 points a game, I also never said he hasn't had good games.  In fact, I have mentioned that if he played like he did during our run last year late in the year and into the playoffs, we would be fine at QB, however, that is unfortunately the outlier in his performances, as a few games does not mean that is who he is when a larger sample size says otherwise.

He was not awful yesterday, in fact some of his throws were really good, and HE ACTUALLY THROWS A SPIRAL NOW THAT HE HAD SURGERY, that in and of itself is an improvement.

but no matter what you say, we were held back by our QB yesterday, and our O-line.  We won because of our defense again, which is fine, but bortles HAS to play better than yesterday if this team is going to reach its goal of a superbowl, if you cant see that or admit that, well then, go on ahead being a homer that's fine, doesn't change reality

If you say so. 



At this point I am tired of going back and forth on this topic. Next up is the Patriots. We'll see what the staff has up their sleeve soon enough. Thanks for keeping my slow [BLEEP] Monday entertaining. 

(09-10-2018, 09:46 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]As I was checking the highlights around the league yesterday and seeing some phenomenal QB performances from Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady and a few others, I began to daydream. Just imagine if we had a really good QB to go along with our dominant defense. This team could be the best team in NFL history. Oh well, I guess I should be grateful for the defense we do have instead of the QB we are missing. It's still nice to imagine though. Maybe, someday..........

I suppose you're right...
HOWEVER
if you have an elite QB, you're gonna have to pay him... and good luck with the QB contracts going round these days keeping Yan, Ramsey, etc etc.

I can see we're gonna have another one of those seasons where every thread is about Bortles and whether he is good enough or not... and every other thread will somehow become that...

I just wonder though... How much better could Borts have played if Cam and Andrew had played better?
How bout them drops early?

Bortles had some ugly throws... but it certainly wasn't all him (the ugliness of the game). Penalties, a bad punt or two, drops, an injury to our lead back (though Yeldon filled in nicely)
Per the usual though... It rarely was/is all him. Though on here, it seems it has to be all him or not at all on him.

Kinda like everything else in this damn world; one side or the other... unfortunate no one can agree to disagree or compromise anymore lol

(09-10-2018, 03:53 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 09:46 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]As I was checking the highlights around the league yesterday and seeing some phenomenal QB performances from Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady and a few others, I began to daydream. Just imagine if we had a really good QB to go along with our dominant defense. This team could be the best team in NFL history. Oh well, I guess I should be grateful for the defense we do have instead of the QB we are missing. It's still nice to imagine though. Maybe, someday..........

I suppose you're right...
HOWEVER
if you have an elite QB, you're gonna have to pay him... and good luck with the QB contracts going round these days keeping Yan, Ramsey, etc etc.

I don't know why the other quote I had got ignored, but I'll try again. What do people think the difference between Bortles and a top QB contract is nowadays? Bortles is only ~12 mil AAV less than Rodgers, only 8 mil less than Cousins. Yannick is going to get 20+ AAV, Ramsey probably about the same, Jack will get 12+.

The difference isn't Bortles = keeping elite defense and top QB = losing elite defense. It's less than one good player.

(09-10-2018, 04:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 03:53 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose you're right...
HOWEVER
if you have an elite QB, you're gonna have to pay him... and good luck with the QB contracts going round these days keeping Yan, Ramsey, etc etc.

I don't know why the other quote I had got ignored, but I'll try again. What do people think the difference between Bortles and a top QB contract is nowadays? Bortles is only ~12 mil AAV less than Rodgers, only 8 mil less than Cousins. Yannick is going to get 20+ AAV, Ramsey probably about the same, Jack will get 12+.

The difference isn't Bortles = keeping elite defense and top QB = losing elite defense. It's less than one good player.

The difference is the total cap hit.
In that regard teams with 100 million dollar QBs have less money to spend on play making defenders and skill position players.

If Bortles had gotten a Carr type contract you can bet your butt our team looks a lot different, not just this season but in the coming seasons.
You think if the clots paid Luck less they could pay some guys to block for him maybe? 


If we had paid Cousins this offseason, how do you figure we get Yan, Ramsey, and Jacks deal done? Cut Campbell, Jackson, AND Dareus?
I'm not saying we don't need better QB play mind you...
I'm just saying if we go out and BUY a QB... it's going to cost at other spots. That's simple math.

What defenders would you sacrifice for better QB play? How about the OL... can we afford to get worse there?

Also, Blake played fairly well yesterday outside of 2 drives.
A lot of our offensive woes came from penalties and drops

(09-10-2018, 02:52 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ]Those quarterbacks are also highly paid.  Zero chance you keep this defense together when you have a qb with a massive contract.

^^^^This

Probably one of BB5's best qualities is his price tag at this point.

(09-11-2018, 02:40 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 02:52 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ]Those quarterbacks are also highly paid.  Zero chance you keep this defense together when you have a qb with a massive contract.

^^^^This

Probably one of BB5's best qualities is his price tag at this point.

Our starting QBs best qualities
Low $/cap hit
YPC
Durability
....likeability?

lol

(09-11-2018, 02:40 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 02:52 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ]Those quarterbacks are also highly paid.  Zero chance you keep this defense together when you have a qb with a massive contract.

^^^^This

Probably one of BB5's best qualities is his price tag at this point.

It's like buying and eating microwave Celeste Pepperoni pizza over Pizza Hut Supreme pizza.   Yuck.

(09-11-2018, 03:03 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-11-2018, 02:40 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]^^^^This

Probably one of BB5's best qualities is his price tag at this point.

It's like buying and eating microwave Celeste Pepperoni pizza over Pizza Hut Supreme pizza.   Yuck.

Pizza Hut is terrible, you lose.

(09-11-2018, 02:25 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]If we had paid Cousins this offseason, how do you figure we get Yan, Ramsey, and Jacks deal done? Cut Campbell, Jackson, AND Dareus?
I'm not saying we don't need better QB play mind you...
I'm just saying if we go out and BUY a QB... it's going to cost at other spots. That's simple math.

The exact same way we'll have to figure out how to keep them with Bortles, minus a 8 million dollars a year. Cousins makes 29M and 31M over the next two years, Bortles makes 21M and 23M. 8 million dollars isn't nothing, but it's not even remotely close to the difference required to try to make the argument that Bortles means we get to keep our defense and Cousins would have meant we lose them.

If you want to make the "keeping our home grown talent" point you would be much better arguing that signing Moncrief and Hayden to big deals instead of rolling that cap over was not the wisest move. Or maybe not making one of the replaceable offensive positions a top 5 highest paid overall lineman would have been smarter. Cause those 3 guys right there are making ~30 mil AAV. That would make a real dent into the 50+ mil we're going to have to find to pay Yannick, Ramsey, and Jack...not the 8 mil we're saving by having a tier or two lower guy at the most important position in the sport.

(09-10-2018, 12:24 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]are you guys actually serious?  You think borltes played fine?  Are you watching the same games?  Go look what rodgers did last night, that is real QB play.  Obvioulsy bortles isnt that, but to say he played fine yesterday is INSANE

we punted SEVEN TIMES IN THE 2ND HALF.... S E V E N

once fournette went out, besides the 1 drive before the half, the offense was DONE.

he had multiple balls tipped, there was a play or 2 that he should have absolutely been intercepted, he threw a 3rd down pass about 10 yards out of bounds (not intentionally), another 3rd down a crossing route was wide open for a 1st down and he threw it low starting right in front of a lineman who easily just batted it down.  There were a couple of times he could have tucked the ball and ran, but for some reason he seems to only run now on designed runs and improvises far less.

He didn't play horrendously, but we once again won despite him, not because of him, as per the usual

11 penalties for 119 yards didn't help much either their chief. Especially when your left tackle gets flagged not once, not twice but I believe three times on third and short for false starts which made them all third and long. Moncrief dropped a 1st down yesterday. So did Westbrook. Norwell also negated a perfect TD pass which we ended up settling for three on. 

You can have your little petty agenda about Blake but it's a two way street though. We clearly weren't watching the same game. I am not saying Bortles was perfect. But his teammates were far from perfect as well on both sides of the football.

Play calling needs to get better. We didn't see any of that dual back formation stuff from pre season at all. We didn't see Chark out there at all. They rarely ran the football out of the I-formation with a fullback lead blocking. Instead they keep trying to get cute on 2nd downs out of the spread or shotgun formation and the RB's are getting eaten alive. 

And stop comparing Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers to any QB in the NFL. He's Aaron [BLEEP] Rodgers. There's maybe three QB's in the NFL that are truly Elite. He's probably the top of that list. Brady has a better team around him than Rodgers. Brees has always been a great passer. After you get past those three you got some guys that can win you some games and damn near cost you some games. Like Ryan in ATL and Roethlisberger in PIT. Can probably add Wilson to that list too out of SEA.

After you get past them. That's about it. It's anyone's guess. Newton was meh yesterday. Prescott sucked. Alex Smith was okay. Mahomes had a big day. Trubisky was okay. Flacco beat up a [BLEEP] team with no QB. Taylor did okay. Jimmy G sucked. Cousins did okay. I mean. You can go back and look.

On Jaguars today, Jeff Lageman put 65% of the blame of the offense's incompetence on Blake Bortles play, does he have an agenda too?

(09-10-2018, 03:01 PM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-10-2018, 02:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You assume too much. The play calling is inconsistent. They showed you that clearly on offense in the AFCC earlier this year. They went from being on the attack to being overly conservative in the second half. Bortles did enough against Buffalo and bailed this team out more than once against Pittsburgh before that AFCC game. 

As far as him not using his legs enough? What are you talking about? He's in the top five or some [BLEEP] like that in all time YPC on average at the position. He runs enough when he has to. He's a QB. Not a RB. You keep throwing your little facts out there while leaving out key plot points like the fact that this is his 2nd year now under Marrone and that he was severely held back along with the rest of this team thanks to Bradley's "wonderful" time here. 

Fact is he entered this year coming off his highest completion percentage in a season. Fact is he had us one game away from a Superbowl. Fact is the kid bailed out this defense when he had to. Fact is he doesn't have a Gronkowski to throw the football to. He doesn't have an all star coach like Belichick. He doesn't get to play inside a dome eight or nine teams a year. And he never got to sit for three years behind a HoF QB. This is also his second year in a row now with receivers that are either done for the year on IR or have less than two years of experience on their belt.

We can play patty cake all day over "facts". But here's the biggest fact you need to recognize. He's our QB. Whether you like him or not. And it's important that you remember that it's not ALWAYS his fault out there when this team doesn't hang up a 40 burger. Because it gives off the perception that you do have an agenda against him. You can't harp on a few plays here and there while also failing to address the lack of overall discipline which put him in those holes to make those obvious pass attempts to begin with.

We'll see what happens. I'll eat my crow if the kid starts stinking it up. But I just don't see that happening.

everything you say is an excuse for him

I realize he is our QB, and every time he drops back, I hope for a completion or a TD like any other jag fan.  That doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what is actually happening though, and unable to criticize like you.  If that means I have an agenda then fine lol, whatever you got to say to make yourself feel better.

I never said we needed 40 points a game, I also never said he hasn't had good games.  In fact, I have mentioned that if he played like he did during our run last year late in the year and into the playoffs, we would be fine at QB, however, that is unfortunately the outlier in his performances, as a few games does not mean that is who he is when a larger sample size says otherwise.

He was not awful yesterday, in fact some of his throws were really good, and HE ACTUALLY THROWS A SPIRAL NOW THAT HE HAD SURGERY, that in and of itself is an improvement.

but no matter what you say, we were held back by our QB yesterday, and our O-line.  We won because of our defense again, which is fine, but bortles HAS to play better than yesterday if this team is going to reach its goal of a superbowl, if you cant see that or admit that, well then, go on ahead being a homer that's fine, doesn't change reality

For the love of god man, don't waste your time arguing with people who are so emotionally attached to players on this team, that they are intellectually dishonest with themselves in the analysis of player performance. It's beyond obvious that Blake Bortles is one of the worst QB's in football, anyone with an objective mind can see that. Unfortunately, most fans are too emotionally attached to be objective, and ironically, these are the people who have an actual "agenda". I suggest moving on from the conversation before it starts to take a toll on your brain cells.