Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Fournertte will go somewhere and became a Pro Bowl RB.

#becausejaguars

(12-31-2018, 01:25 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Fournertte will go somewhere and became a Pro Bowl RB.

#becausejaguars

Maybe but I doubt it.

(12-31-2018, 01:30 PM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2018, 01:25 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Fournertte will go somewhere and became a Pro Bowl RB.

#becausejaguars

Maybe but I doubt it.

 I can see him getting in the perfect situation (for him) and thriving. Pro Bowl may be a stretch, but he's not without talent. His main problem is between his ears.

(12-31-2018, 01:38 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2018, 01:30 PM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe but I doubt it.

 I can see him getting in the perfect situation (for him) and thriving. Pro Bowl may be a stretch, but he's not without talent. His main problem is between his ears.

I think last year was the perfect scenario for him.  Great defense and an offense willing to give him the ball 25 times a game sometimes. 
Although I agree his main problem is between his ears, I’m not that impressed with his talent. He’s not without talent obviously, but I don’t think he’s near the level of a Barkley Elliot or Gurley.  Above average size/speed but below average Vision. I think he’s an average back.  Combine that with his apparent attitude problems and he’s not worth that much.  He can go for all I care.

(12-31-2018, 01:45 PM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2018, 01:38 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] I can see him getting in the perfect situation (for him) and thriving. Pro Bowl may be a stretch, but he's not without talent. His main problem is between his ears.

I think last year was the perfect scenario for him.  Great defense and an offense willing to give him the ball 25 times a game sometimes. 
Although I agree his main problem is between his ears, I’m not that impressed with his talent. He’s not without talent obviously, but I don’t think he’s near the level of a Barkley Elliot or Gurley.  Above average size/speed but below average Vision. I think he’s an average back.  Combine that with his apparent attitude problems and he’s not worth that much.  He can go for all I care.

He’s not on the same talent level of CMac or Kamara either.

I think it's poor optics to try take his guarantees for standing up for a teammate, especially due to him being a popular figure but at the same time he hasn't lived up to his draft spot and isn't reliable at all.

(12-31-2018, 01:25 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Fournertte will go somewhere and became a Pro Bowl RB.

#becausejaguars

Strong and fast is not that rare in the NFL.

He's an average back.

Zero lateral agility
Zero field vision
Zero contact balance
He's really, really stupid and immature.


Absolute bust.

Continuously going through so many players and first round pick, this must all be part of the Jags plan to sell more jerseys

(12-31-2018, 10:57 AM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ]can we season ticket holders file a grievance for his lackluster play?

You haven't filed your grievance yet??

This certainly makes a trade more possible, but I’m not writing off his career.

Last season (when he missed only three games) he faced defenses stacked against him every week, because the rest of the offense posed no credible threat.

Put him in a functional offense and you might see a different player.

Unfortunately for us, we are years away from having a functional offense...

"If Fournette fails to successfully appeal the void, the Jaguars could cut him without incurring any future financial obligations. It also might make trading for him more attractive to other teams considering the reduced financial risk."

Goodbye Fournette.

Good grief, all those top 5 picks and one guy to show for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLc37GsS...r_embedded

Those are plays from Fournettes rookie year. The first thing that jumps out on tape is the quality of the blocking; it's night and day with this year, we're actually creating holes and not getting moved off the line of scrimmage. I'm amazed at some of the criticisms he's faced.

1) "3.4nette" - If fournette had just a few more yards his rookie year to make the 3.9 ypc into a 4.0 i'm sure people would be a lot less critical; people just freak out as the optics of the "3" in front somehow changes the substance. No one complained last year as he was the engine that moved the offense. Also it seems like on a lot of runs he's going for the line to gain, it may not look pretty but it gets the first down and extends drives which is something this team struggles with. Yea a 2 yard gain on 3rd and 2 is going to tank your ypc, but anyone who watches football knows that you dont judge a player for only getting 2 yards if the line they gained is important (1st down, Touchdown etc.)

2) "He has no vision" - several of his biggest plays demonstrate superb vision, and the announcers even make note of it; this criticism is beyond silly.

3) "He has no burst" - That is a different level of speed on tape there that I didn't see after his hamstring injury early in the season. He looked himself for the first quarter of the Giants game for what it's worth (also in that game week 1 with all our offensive linemen healthy, before Leonard left with injury he had 9 carries for 41 yards ... at 4.55 yards a pop.... THAT is what we got from him when healthy with healthy blocking and what we should expect if they stay healthy in 2019); but he didn't magically lose his long speed and burst in a single year. Hamstrings are what key the "explosiveness" part of running, and being out for 6 weeks and unable to run will almost assuredly affect conditioning. He'll come back fully healthy and conditioned and go right back to being the guy we see in the video from his rookie year.

4) "he constantly misses holes" - It seemed like he was finding a lot of holes when blocks aren't being whiffed and he's met in the backfield. It's also cool to see how it's GAP plays with a lead blocker or a pulling Guard/Tight End that create the lane for him to get up to speed. It's hard to execute gap plays with an oline of backups (which is why we ran more zone concepts which isn't his bread and butter); you can't miss a hole that doesn't exist lol.

5) "Blocking isn't an excuse _____ team had a worse line and is fine" - NO team had close to the injuries we had upfront. period. Further, If you look at all the plays above, the blocking is lightyears better last year than it was this year. I also noticed how a lot of long runs are keyed by Cam Robinson, It looked like Leonard really liked running behind him and Linder last year. Leonard also has ran into the highest % of stacked boxes of any RB in the nfl since he came into the league; other teams have a respectable passing game that can back the safeties out of the box. Once we get competency at QB and Leonard sees a normal defensive front... he'll have holes all over to hit and people will be amazed "oh look Leonard is good again"

6) "But Great players succeed in spite of that" - Football is the ultimate team game. Aaron Rodgers just had a 6 win season... no one is criticizing him for that. Every other great RB and highly drafted RB has more around them to work with. There's a reason he was drafted high and mentioned among the Zeke's, Gurley's, Barkleys. Also Gurley had a poor second year too ... good thing the Rams didn't run him out of town for these asinine criticisms too.

7) "He's not elusive" - i see him make a few people miss up there. it's also easier to make people miss in the open field vs. a guy that's barrelling down on you as soon as you're handed the ball. Further he has ENOUGH elusiveness, but he's a power back not a scat back. He's working with Fred Taylor (said so in the TNF clip against the Titans of "looking at past greats" as they ask him to comment on tape of Fred) Fred wouldn't waste his time with a "bust" like so many people are kindly calling him, he's only going to get better once he puts the work in.


All in all, as a rookie he showed: speed, vision, burst, good short yardage running, good redzone running, decent hands etc. He didn't magically get his talent stolen like its some NFL version of Space Jam. I think that the lack of blocking and the hamstring lingering (which hits burst as well as conditioning) is the reason for his sophomore slump. The antics with the suspension make it easier for people to scapegoat him unjustly; and look hindsight is 20/20 we get that Mahomes and Watson look good and we're stuck in QB purgatory, but don't blame Leonard who's probably our best offensive player for the incompetency of our Front Office taking an injury prone back in the top 5 of a LOADED RB draft. We really shouldn't be chasing the man out of the town with torches and pitchforks, the game last sunday showed no matter what's happening at QB we need him to move the ball on offense period.

On fournette:

(12-31-2018, 09:08 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLc37GsS...r_embedded

Those are plays from Fournettes rookie year. The first thing that jumps out on tape is the quality of the blocking; it's night and day with this year, we're actually creating holes and not getting moved off the line of scrimmage.  I'm amazed at some of the criticisms he's faced.

1) "3.4nette" -  If fournette had just a few more yards his rookie year to make the 3.9 ypc into a 4.0 i'm sure people would be a lot less critical; people just freak out as the optics of the "3" in front somehow changes the substance. No one complained last year as he was the engine that moved the offense. Also it seems like on a lot of runs he's going for the line to gain, it may not look pretty but it gets the first down and extends drives which is something this team struggles with. Yea a 2 yard gain on 3rd and 2 is going to tank your ypc, but anyone who watches football knows that you dont judge a player for only getting 2 yards if the line they gained is important (1st down, Touchdown etc.)

2) "He has no vision" - several of his biggest plays demonstrate superb vision, and the announcers even make note of it; this criticism is beyond silly.

3) "He has no burst" - That is a different level of speed on tape there that I didn't see after his hamstring injury early in the season. He looked himself for the first quarter of the Giants game for what it's worth (also in that game week 1 with all our offensive linemen healthy, before Leonard left with injury he had 9 carries for 41 yards ... at 4.55 yards a pop.... THAT is what we got from him when healthy with healthy blocking and what we should expect if they stay healthy in 2019); but he didn't magically lose his long speed and burst in a single year. Hamstrings are what key the "explosiveness" part of running, and being out for 6 weeks and unable to run will almost assuredly affect conditioning. He'll come back fully healthy and conditioned and go right back to being the guy we see in the video from his rookie year.

4) "he constantly misses holes" - It seemed like he was finding a lot of holes when blocks aren't being whiffed and he's met in the backfield. It's also cool to see how it's GAP plays with a lead blocker or a pulling Guard/Tight End that create the lane for him to get up to speed. It's hard to execute gap plays with an oline of backups (which is why we ran more zone concepts which isn't his bread and butter); you can't miss a hole that doesn't exist lol.

5) "Blocking isn't an excuse _____ team had a worse line and is fine" - NO team had close to the injuries we had upfront. period. Further, If you look at all the plays above, the blocking is lightyears better last year than it was this year. I also noticed how a lot of long runs are keyed by Cam Robinson, It looked like Leonard really liked running behind him and Linder last year. Leonard also has ran into the highest % of stacked boxes of any RB in the nfl since he came into the league; other teams have a respectable passing game that can back the safeties out of the box. Once we get competency at QB and Leonard sees a normal defensive front... he'll have holes all over to hit and people will be amazed "oh look Leonard is good again"

6) "But Great players succeed in spite of that" - Football is the ultimate team game. Aaron Rodgers just had a 6 win season... no one is criticizing him for that. Every other great RB and highly drafted RB has more around them to work with. There's a reason he was drafted high and mentioned among the Zeke's, Gurley's, Barkleys. Also Gurley had a poor second year too ... good thing the Rams didn't run him out of town for these asinine criticisms too.

7) "He's not elusive" - i see him make a few people miss up there. it's also easier to make people miss in the open field vs. a guy that's barrelling down on you as soon as you're handed the ball. Further he has ENOUGH elusiveness, but he's a power back not a scat back. He's working with Fred Taylor (said so in the TNF clip against the Titans of "looking at past greats" as they ask him to comment on tape of Fred) Fred wouldn't waste his time with a "bust" like so many people are kindly calling him, he's only going to get better once he puts the work in.


All in all, as a rookie he showed: speed, vision, burst, good short yardage running, good redzone running, decent hands etc. He didn't magically get his talent stolen like its some NFL version of Space Jam. I think that the lack of blocking and the hamstring lingering (which hits burst as well as conditioning) is the reason for his sophomore slump. The antics with the suspension make it easier for people to scapegoat him unjustly; and look hindsight is 20/20 we get that Mahomes and Watson look good and we're stuck in QB purgatory, but don't blame Leonard who's probably our best offensive player for the incompetency of our Front Office taking an injury prone back in the top 5 of a LOADED RB draft. We really shouldn't be chasing the man out of the town with torches and pitchforks, the game last sunday showed no matter what's happening at QB we need him to move the ball on offense period.

He’s a workhorse when healthy. He hasn’t been healthy very much.
Even in his first year he missed quite a lot of opportunities and holes that were there.  Jeff Lageman who does a great job analyzing film has spoken on this topic numerous times. 
You take away his two long runs he averaged 3.3 ypc even last year.  So you could also see it that way. But you don’t get to just take away runs, so his 3.9 ypc are accurate.  He also averaged less than 4 ypc in the playoffs last year.

When you get 400 carries you damn better break one or two.  And yes, when he’s in the open field going full speed, he is very hard to catch. Unfortunately he’s had two breakaway runs on 400 carries, and none this year.

I know he would be much better with an improved offensive line... but so would anyone else.  Carlos Hyde is a good back, I wonder what he would have done on the Jaguars team last year had he been given the same opportunities?  I don’t know if the drop off would’ve been that huge.

The only reason this is an issue is because of terrible attitude ON TOP of his lackluster play this year.   The fact that he was a top 5 pick and picked ahead of two franchise QBs that went a few picks after him only magnifies the fact that he has seriously underperformed.

Looking at those highlights.... the blocking was superb a lot of the times. Not taking anything away from LF but actually had PERFECT blocking on his 90 yard run. He just had to run full speed and not get caught which he didn’t.
The next long play against the chargers, the hole was big enough to drive a semi trough... once again LF Just has to run and not get caught.

Hopefully your offensive line creates a few holes like that every year.

I also noticed that Fournette looks significantly thinner in that video. I think he was out of shape this year.

I also hope your RB creates a 50 yard run out of a 10 or 15 sometimes.

We know Fournette can be better if the blocking is better. But we saw what happens when injuries to the line and to him occur...

(12-31-2018, 12:33 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2018, 12:27 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell and Coughlin set us back multiple years by dismantling the offense. This is now a multiple year re-build.

They are getting one more chance so im hoping they make the right picks.  I trust Couglin with selecting a QB much more than I do Caldwell and I think Tom knows offensive talent more than Dave when he sees it.  I think we go all offense this year and they have to hit on the QB and TE/WR/oline picks

Coughlin endorsed Bortles,signed off on him, and agreed to a multi year extension and you trust him but not Caldwell when Coughlin had/has final say?

Just one more reason to question keeping Caldwell. But oh well. Trade him and a 3rd to Raiders for Carr?

(12-31-2018, 01:45 PM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-31-2018, 01:38 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] I can see him getting in the perfect situation (for him) and thriving. Pro Bowl may be a stretch, but he's not without talent. His main problem is between his ears.

I think last year was the perfect scenario for him.  Great defense and an offense willing to give him the ball 25 times a game sometimes. 
Although I agree his main problem is between his ears, I’m not that impressed with his talent. He’s not without talent obviously, but I don’t think he’s near the level of a Barkley Elliot or Gurley.  Above average size/speed but below average Vision. I think he’s an average back.  Combine that with his apparent attitude problems and he’s not worth that much.  He can go for all I care.

Look......it is not ideal for any running back to play against a stacked box with little to no receiving threats, from the WR's or TE.

27 has been disappointing this year, but it is ridiculous to act like he isn't talented.  

Hell, Gurley was thought of as a bust after his 2nd year with 3.2 a carry due to coaching and scheme.   

I bet they are happy they didn't dump him after getting rid of Fisher and that scheme.