(01-22-2020, 05:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of notes for those that haven't followed Yan's career closely:
1. He has been described in lockstep by players, coaches, and anyone who covers the team as a consummate pro and ideal teammate and competitor. Literally the only people I've ever seen question him or his character that way were a few dimwits here or on twitter/SM. The dude has been a pro's pro since day one in the league.
2. His twitter account is not telling you anything right now. He tweets cryptic and existential content all the time and you'd be unwise to assume he isn't open to getting paid right by the Jags based upon his recent tweets.
3. Players negotiate and hold out to maximize that second contract regularly now. It's usually the biggest payday they'll see in their entire career and can set them (and their family) up for life if they get it right. He's doing just that right now. He's going to get more than he's worth. Might be in Jax, might be elsewhere.
Referring to your points:
1. Completely agree. Yan has always been talked about with the utmost respect by coaches, players, and the press that are around him. Even the incident with Fowler seemed to be Yan calling him out for a lack of professionalism on his part.
2. I think you're being a bit head-in-the-sand on this. Yes, the tweets are slightly cryptic but it doesn't take a genius to see he wants out. It's obvious. Unfortunately for us, when a player decides they no longer want to play for a team, it's very rare to see that situation change (as we all know too well).
3. You're absolutely right again, and I hold nothing against players maximizing their earning potential. Sadly, I think Yan has made his mind up that he doesn't want to be here, and knows he can make equally big, if not bigger, money with another team.
I'd love to be wrong about this, and there's always a possibility that money talks and they offer him a huge new contract that makes him put aside any grievances he may have with the organization. At this point, I'd be massively surprised though.
I'll say it again, % of salary cap is a better way to look at it historically. The elite pass rushers are getting ~12% of the salary cap. Yannick probably deserves about 11%, right in the Robert Quinn/Olivier Vernon range. I wish that table could be updated with the new Clark/Ford deals added in, they'd be right in the 11% range too I believe.
The cap is predicted to be in the very high 190M maaaaybe 200M range next year. Therefore I think Yannick deserves about $21.5M AAV, give or take a tad. Maybe if we would have been fair with the guaranteed money in last years offer we could have gotten him in that Danielle Hunter steal range.
https://twitter.com/ArifHasanNFL/status/...80/photo/1
Meh, I like Yannick but he is limited and can’t run defend for [BLEEP]. I ain’t paying him top dollar, but maybe it’s time the Jags atleast start a reputation that we pay our draft picks instead of just pissing them off and them leaving.
(01-23-2020, 12:51 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Meh, I like Yannick but he is limited and can’t run defend for [BLEEP]. I ain’t paying him top dollar, but maybe it’s time the Jags atleast start a reputation that we pay our draft picks instead of just pissing them off and them leaving.
Maybe we keep drafting guys who are [BLEEP](greedy)..devil’s advocate here.
If we had a winning record last year...or a break even...but gesh, our biggest issue last year was stopping the run. We don’t have amazing corners and we can’t afford Darius but let’s break the bank on Yan? Great player but our defense went to complete [BLEEP] when Darius went out and Yan wasn’t the difference maker.
I’m not saying he’s not worth it, I just don’t think he’s worth what he thinks he is.
Our interrior linemen and our LBs were the main reason for our terrible run defense, not our DEs.
(01-23-2020, 08:45 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Our interrior linemen and our LBs were the main reason for our terrible run defense, not our DEs.
Weak side DE is less of a run factor player in a 4-3 front than the other three by nature of the scheme.
Run defense is an important but very secondary role at that position. Much in the same way that coverage of slot receivers and tight ends is the primary role of a nickel back, and run defense is a secondary role. Similar dynamic.
And, yeah, the run defense suffered due to interior linemen and linebackers primarily. While the other side (strong side end) does factor in to run defense more than the weak side (Yan's side), the play there was mostly solid or better and rarely to blame.
Same people saying "Let Yan walk" will be the first ones complaining next year about the lack of pass rush.
well, now that the OC is hired and done.....maybe time for DC to get on this and either keep Yan or not.
(01-23-2020, 12:11 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2020, 05:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of notes for those that haven't followed Yan's career closely:
1. He has been described in lockstep by players, coaches, and anyone who covers the team as a consummate pro and ideal teammate and competitor. Literally the only people I've ever seen question him or his character that way were a few dimwits here or on twitter/SM. The dude has been a pro's pro since day one in the league.
2. His twitter account is not telling you anything right now. He tweets cryptic and existential content all the time and you'd be unwise to assume he isn't open to getting paid right by the Jags based upon his recent tweets.
Referring to your points:
1. Completely agree. Yan has always been talked about with the utmost respect by coaches, players, and the press that are around him. Even the incident with Fowler seemed to be Yan calling him out for a lack of professionalism on his part.
2. I think you're being a bit head-in-the-sand on this. Yes, the tweets are slightly cryptic but it doesn't take a genius to see he wants out. It's obvious. Unfortunately for us, when a player decides they no longer want to play for a team, it's very rare to see that situation change (as we all know too well).
RE: #2 - I'm not ignoring the timing and nature of his tweets, I'm suggesting that he does stuff like this all the time and these latest tweets can easily just be part of his gamesmanship to influence the Jags next offering upward.
Maybe he legit wants out. Wouldn't be a shocker, but his actual comments during interviews in-season go against that and I really do believe that "money talks" in this situation. The right offer could ground his rambling spirit quickly.
(01-23-2020, 09:33 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 08:45 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Our interrior linemen and our LBs were the main reason for our terrible run defense, not our DEs.
Weak side DE is less of a run factor player in a 4-3 front than the other three by nature of the scheme.
Run defense is an important but very secondary role at that position.
Yeah it's like harping on JD Martinez because he is bad at defense. He's still extremely valuable and that's not why you're paying a guy with his skill set anyway.
What can we get for Yan in a trade once he's franchised? Something like the Seahawks got for Frank Clark which was a late 1st+2nd?
Also, what could we get for 34 year old Calais? Since they're rebuilding, that extra cap rollover would be nice for when we're ready to be true contenders again.
(01-23-2020, 09:54 AM)KABD Wrote: [ -> ]What can we get for Yan in a trade once he's franchised? Something like the Seahawks got for Frank Clark which was a late 1st+2nd?
Also, what could we get for 34 year old Calais? Since they're rebuilding, that extra cap rollover would be nice once we're ready to be true contenders again.
Possibly but then you're like the Seahawks who are in desperate need of pass rushers. They ranked 29th in sacks.
(01-23-2020, 09:36 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Same people saying "Let Yan walk" will be the first ones complaining next year about the lack of pass rush.
Yep.
it took 13 years for this team to draft a good pass rusher after Brackens retired. 13 years.
But nah, it's cool. Let 'em walk.
(01-23-2020, 09:38 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 12:11 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Referring to your points:
1. Completely agree. Yan has always been talked about with the utmost respect by coaches, players, and the press that are around him. Even the incident with Fowler seemed to be Yan calling him out for a lack of professionalism on his part.
2. I think you're being a bit head-in-the-sand on this. Yes, the tweets are slightly cryptic but it doesn't take a genius to see he wants out. It's obvious. Unfortunately for us, when a player decides they no longer want to play for a team, it's very rare to see that situation change (as we all know too well).
RE: #2 - I'm not ignoring the timing and nature of his tweets, I'm suggesting that he does stuff like this all the time and these latest tweets can easily just be part of his gamesmanship to influence the Jags next offering upward.
Maybe he legit wants out. Wouldn't be a shocker, but his actual comments during interviews in-season go against that and I really do believe that "money talks" in this situation. The right offer could ground his rambling spirit quickly.
Man, I hope you're right.
(01-23-2020, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 09:54 AM)KABD Wrote: [ -> ]What can we get for Yan in a trade once he's franchised? Something like the Seahawks got for Frank Clark which was a late 1st+2nd?
Also, what could we get for 34 year old Calais? Since they're rebuilding, that extra cap rollover would be nice once we're ready to be true contenders again.
Possibly but then you're like the Seahawks who are in desperate need of pass rushers. They ranked 29th in sacks.
Trade Yan for a 1st+2nd, then trade our three 1sts and two 2nds for the 1st overall pick to take Burrow. 0% chance I know lol.
But seriously, I don't want to overpay the guy out of desperation, so if he doesn't want to be here there's not much else they can do but trade him.
(01-23-2020, 10:07 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 09:36 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Same people saying "Let Yan walk" will be the first ones complaining next year about the lack of pass rush.
Yep.
it took 13 years for this team to draft a good pass rusher after Brackens retired. 13 years.
But nah, it's cool. Let 'em walk.
Josh Allen? Pick #9 will have some options too.
(01-22-2020, 06:38 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]He did decline the 18 million contract last year because of length?
length, average compensation, structure, having to work under Tom Coughlin for several more years, or some combination of these, likely.
I don't know what top-5 DE money looks like, but I surmise it's in the 18-20 range. I fully expect us to offer something in that range over 4-5 years.
(01-23-2020, 10:23 AM)KABD Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 10:07 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Yep.
it took 13 years for this team to draft a good pass rusher after Brackens retired. 13 years.
But nah, it's cool. Let 'em walk.
Josh Allen? Pick #9 will have some options too.
You need BOTH guys. One edge rusher is not enough. Allen and Ngakoue are on the field together frequently on third down pass sets, and will be on the field more and more as Calais ages out.
Allen doesn't give you options to cut Ngakoue. He gives you the right number of pass rushers in addition to Ngakoue and the "days-numbered" Campbell.
(01-23-2020, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 09:54 AM)KABD Wrote: [ -> ]What can we get for Yan in a trade once he's franchised? Something like the Seahawks got for Frank Clark which was a late 1st+2nd?
Also, what could we get for 34 year old Calais? Since they're rebuilding, that extra cap rollover would be nice once we're ready to be true contenders again.
Possibly but then you're like the Seahawks who are in desperate need of pass rushers. They ranked 29th in sacks.
@....but they had Clowney?@
I say that Calais is worth more to the defensive unit than any compensation we could get in a trade.
Our coaches are in a prove-it year. They are not going to have a fire sale on the talent we do have under contract.
(01-23-2020, 10:29 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2020, 10:23 AM)KABD Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen? Pick #9 will have some options too.
You need BOTH guys. One edge rusher is not enough. Allen and Ngakoue are on the field together frequently on third down pass sets, and will be on the field more and more as Calais ages out.
Allen doesn't give you options to cut Ngakoue. He gives you the right number of pass rushers in addition to Ngakoue and the "days-numbered" Campbell.
The Jags aren't going to be winning any time soon regardless unless you believe in Minshew mania. Overpaying the guy out of desperation will only hurt once they're ready to be true contenders again. Stockpile the draft picks and rollover the cap space.
We'd all love to have him back if he wants to be here playing for what he's worth.