Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I think you guys overthink the actual money aspect of this deal and where we are as a franchise. We aren't cash strapped nor do we have any actual cap issues the next few years.

Even if you weirdly think an extra 2-3 million a year is some heinous overpay that hurts the team (it doesn't at all) in 2 seasons he won't even be DE5 money wise.

But also it's not just about money anymore. They also have to convince Yannick this is the place he wants to be despite all the mess and losing

(01-23-2020, 01:27 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Demarcus Lawrence and Frank Clark are edge #3 and edge #4 in terms of practical guarantees.

So are we all on board paying him in that DE3 range now? Lol

I never wasn't on board. 

And as your other post (and another of mine) makes clear -- the #1 or #3 salary is a constantly moving (upward) target.  It doesn't mean a damn thing. 

So what if they pay Ngakoue more than Lawrence?  It will be surpassed quickly by the next crop of pass rushers due a second deal. 

Free agency is NOT about what you think the guy is worth, but what you can afford to pay him compared to other teams for the production he brings. The market decides, and you have to be willing to overpay.

(01-23-2020, 01:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 01:27 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Demarcus Lawrence and Frank Clark are edge #3 and edge #4 in terms of practical guarantees.

So are we all on board paying him in that DE3 range now? Lol

I never wasn't on board. 

And as your other post (and another of mine) makes clear -- the #1 or #3 salary is a constantly moving (upward) target.  It doesn't mean a damn thing. 

So what if they pay Ngakoue more than Lawrence?  It will be surpassed quickly by the next crop of pass rushers due a second deal. 

Free agency is NOT about what you think the guy is worth, but what you can afford to pay him compared to other teams for the production he brings. The market decides, and you have to be willing to overpay.

This was my main issue with not signing him to a long term deal last season. He's going to continue to cost more money and will be more expensive this year than last.

(01-23-2020, 01:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 01:27 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Demarcus Lawrence and Frank Clark are edge #3 and edge #4 in terms of practical guarantees.

So are we all on board paying him in that DE3 range now? Lol

I never wasn't on board. 

And as your other post (and another of mine) makes clear -- the #1 or #3 salary is a constantly moving (upward) target.  It doesn't mean a damn thing. 

So what if they pay Ngakoue more than Lawrence?  It will be surpassed quickly by the next crop of pass rushers due a second deal. 

Free agency is NOT about what you think the guy is worth, but what you can afford to pay him compared to other teams for the production he brings. The market decides, and you have to be willing to overpay.

Referring to others who didn't want to pay Yannick that kind of money and now they do. 

And yes it really doesn't matter at all. It will have zero impact on our ability to do any other move we could possibly want to do. 

If only Tom hadn't been as stubborn

(01-23-2020, 01:48 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This was my main issue with not signing him to a long term deal last season. He's going to continue to cost more money and will be more expensive this year than last.

But will the cost exceed the 17 million they saved last year? edit- assuming that they offered the 19 million I heard thrown around.

You know Yann still wants that cash.

(01-22-2020, 12:54 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-22-2020, 12:31 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Can't wait for the franchise tag to be fired into the sun. Just treat your players right. It shouldn't be that hard.

Players should never have the upper hand. Ever. In any situation.

...that's not how business works. Not at all. Let me ask: what were you up to in 1861? Because that's what an environment where the employees have no power looks like.

(01-23-2020, 04:06 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 01:48 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This was my main issue with not signing him to a long term deal last season. He's going to continue to cost more money and will be more expensive this year than last.

But will the cost exceed the 17 million they saved last year? edit- assuming that they offered the 19 million I heard thrown around.

You know Yann still wants that cash.

Yep and he is stupid to think he is ever going to get that money back. He is 1 year older now and you can't turn the clock back, specially when you didn't have a great year.

well, he did take the risk of injury playing on the last year of his rookie contract.
That has to be worth something to the team.
He should be rewarded for his faith in himself and the team.

(01-23-2020, 05:10 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 04:06 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]But will the cost exceed the 17 million they saved last year? edit- assuming that they offered the 19 million I heard thrown around.

You know Yann still wants that cash.

Yep and he is stupid to think he is ever going to get that money back. He is 1 year older now and you can't turn the clock back, specially when you didn't have a great year.

He's 24 [BLEEP]

(01-23-2020, 05:10 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 04:06 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]But will the cost exceed the 17 million they saved last year? edit- assuming that they offered the 19 million I heard thrown around.

You know Yann still wants that cash.

Yep and he is stupid to think he is ever going to get that money back. He is 1 year older now and you can't turn the clock back, specially when you didn't have a great year.

He played on one leg the first 4 games and still finished with 8 sacks and 30 pressures

Tweets suggest being snubbed for the pro bowl has chapped his [BLEEP]

(01-23-2020, 05:20 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]well, he did take the risk of injury playing on the last year of his rookie contract.
That has to be worth something to the team.
He should be rewarded for his faith in himself and the team.

This isn't a slight against Yan, but Yan played because of what it means to his future. 

It wasn't a selfless act. Yan was set to lose out on a lot more if he didn't play.

(01-23-2020, 05:04 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-22-2020, 12:54 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Players should never have the upper hand. Ever. In any situation.

...that's not how business works. Not at all. Let me ask: what were you up to in 1861? Because that's what an environment where the employees have no power looks like.

(01-23-2020, 05:59 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 05:10 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Yep and he is stupid to think he is ever going to get that money back. He is 1 year older now and you can't turn the clock back, specially when you didn't have a great year.

He played on one leg the first 4 games and still finished with 8 sacks and 30 pressures

You can't project sacks. Yes he probably would have had more sacks, but he doesn't. He also could have had $17 million more dollars in the bank while he holds out. He has $2 and won't get paid next year unless he gets a team to over pay for him.

If the Jags tell him to go find a trade partner, what is he going to do when his value comes in a lot lower than he thinks it is?

(01-23-2020, 07:08 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 05:59 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]He played on one leg the first 4 games and still finished with 8 sacks and 30 pressures

You can't project sacks. Yes he probably would have had more sacks, but he doesn't. He also could have had $17 million more dollars in the bank while he holds out. He has $2 and won't get paid next year unless he gets a team to over pay for him.

If the Jags tell him to go find a trade partner, what is he going to do when his value comes in a lot lower than he thinks it is?

He could lose about 20 more mil if we tag him and he dont want to play on it.

What does/did Calais Cambell get when he signed with us? Is Yann worth more than that?

(01-23-2020, 07:42 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]What does/did Calais Cambell get when he signed with us? Is Yann worth more than that?

That was four years ago. Salaries have inflated since. 

Free agents are worth what you're able to (over) pay them to help your team. Especially at premium positions.  Right now, the market is bearing out a price for Ngakoue that some fans think he's "not worth."  But that's immaterial to the negotiations. 

You shouldn't be asking what he's worth, you should be asking how much the Jags can afford to overpay him and still meet their other offseason goals.

(01-23-2020, 07:08 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 05:59 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]He played on one leg the first 4 games and still finished with 8 sacks and 30 pressures

You can't project sacks. Yes he probably would have had more sacks, but he doesn't. He also could have had $17 million more dollars in the bank while he holds out. He has $2 and won't get paid next year unless he gets a team to over pay for him.

If the Jags tell him to go find a trade partner, what is he going to do when his value comes in a lot lower than he thinks it is?

I don't need to project sacks. He's been a very good pass rusher his whole career. The only players who hit the QB more than Yannick a season ago was Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox. 

He's going to get a big contract on this year or the team he's traded to. The rest is irrelevant

(01-23-2020, 07:42 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]What does/did Calais Cambell get when he signed with us? Is Yann worth more than that?

Calais got $15M AAV, which was 9% of the cap at the time. His advanced age played a significant a large reason why he won't get as much as Yan. Giving that much money to a 30 year old was a significant gamble that has paid off for us. Yan at 24 is a much safer bet that teams will pay for.

(01-23-2020, 09:19 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2020, 07:42 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]What does/did Calais Cambell get when he signed with us? Is Yann worth more than that?

Calais got $15M AAV, which was 9% of the cap at the time. His advanced age played a significant a large reason why he won't get as much as Yan. Giving that much money to a 30 year old was a significant gamble that has paid off for us. Yan at 24 is a much safer bet that teams will pay for.

Wasn't really a significant gamble though especially with how the contract was drawn up. He was a very safe bet to be v good and worth the deal