(04-23-2020, 11:24 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]my thought as well. They guy that coast his team a playoff spot
The last playoff spot we had since 2007 was in 2017. Ramsey played a big part in that.
But the point is being lost here. If we sufficiently replaced the talent represented by Ramsey, then I have no complaint.
But we botched the #20 pick we got from the Rams.
I think it is a little early to say botched...
I think we had no choice but to deal Ramsey. I think we got the most return possible given the circumstances. It will be a long time until we know if we made the right decisions with the draft capital.
Ramsey was trash and thus the reason we got such trash return for him.
(04-23-2020, 11:32 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:24 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]He didn't wanna be here, he is a diva and a cancer, so yeah, I don't care he is gone.
Did you see henderson's face? He didn't look overly enthused to be picked by us.
Should we trade HIM?
Wow this is pretty weak
https://twitter.com/HendersonChris_/stat...61472?s=20
I forgot this is the first time a player cries after he gets drafted
.gif "Laughing")
Just a perfect example on why I am an advocate of player for player deals. I HATE player for picks. Like you said... drafting on a treadmill. Since early 2000's.
Chaisson and Henderson could end up very good, but NEWS FLASH... without a QB and protection for him... you LOSING a lottt of games! I wanted to know if Minshew could be the guy. FA and 1st round is done, very UNLIKELY an impact player will be brought on 2-7 round. It's completely unfair to ask immediate impact from any rookie, but you could ramp expectations at least for a 1st rounder. Just so disappointing. Minshew running for his life all year. Hope he doesn't get seriously hurt.
(04-23-2020, 11:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:24 PM)Mandeezee Wrote: [ -> ]Only worth paying a CB the money Ramsey wanted on a very good D where all you need is a lock down cb. Jags D has too many holes so an elite cb like Ramsey is a waste.
We're going need to play good TEAM ball.
How do you expect to build a good defense when...
a) You let your talented players like Ramsey and Yan walk; and
B) You don't adequately replace them when they walk?!?
Oh yeah we should have begged him to stay and make all the decisions they want. We should let them choose the GM, the HC, the QB, as long as they are talented we should let them do whatever they want. Let them skip training camp if they want too...
(04-23-2020, 11:37 PM)TearExtractor Wrote: [ -> ]Ramsey was trash and thus the reason we got such trash return for him.
But that's the thing.
He wasn't trash.
He made two Pro bowls and was First team All Pro while he was here, and our defense ranked in the top ten throughout his stay here until last year.
When he became available for trade, just about every team in the league inquired about him, several teams (playoff contenders mostly) made offers.
The Rams-the defending NFC Champs-made the winning offer, which was two first round picks and a 4th round pick. That bounty was more than the Bears got for Khalil Mack.
The return we got for him wasn't trash, either at face value. But I believe the Chaisson pick makes it closer to trash.
Don't miss the point here. It isn't as much about trading Ramsey as it is the failure to maximize the value of the picks obtained in the Ramsey trade.
(04-23-2020, 11:43 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:37 PM)TearExtractor Wrote: [ -> ]Ramsey was trash and thus the reason we got such trash return for him.
But that's the thing.
He wasn't trash.
He made two Pro bowls and was First team All Pro while he was here, and our defense ranked in the top ten throughout his stay here until last year.
When he became available for trade, just about every team in the league inquired about him, several teams (playoff contenders mostly) made offers.
The Rams-the defending NFC Champs-made the winning offer, which was two first round picks and a 4th round pick. That bounty was more than the Bears got for Khalil Mack.
The return we got for him wasn't trash, either at face value. But I believe the Chaisson pick makes it closer to trash.
Don't miss the point here. It isn't as much about trading Ramsey as it is the failure to maximize the value of the picks obtained in the Ramsey trade.
Browns got a 1st for Trent Richardson. You act like you already know what type of career Chaisson is gonna have and its a failed pick lol
(04-23-2020, 11:43 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]How do you expect to build a good defense when...
a) You let your talented players like Ramsey and Yan walk; and
B) You don't adequately replace them when they walk?!?
Oh yeah we should beg him to stay and make all the decisions they want. We should let them choose the GM, the HC, the QB, as long as they are talented we should let them do whatever they want. Let them skip training camp if they want too...
You didn't answer the question.
How do you expect to build a good defense when you let your most talented players on that side of the ball walk and not adequately replace them?
Everyone laughed at Houston for giving away Hopkins and Clowney for songs. But at least they have a track record of success, and stand a good chance of winning the division this year.
Can we say the same?
(04-23-2020, 11:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:43 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]But that's the thing.
He wasn't trash.
He made two Pro bowls and was First team All Pro while he was here, and our defense ranked in the top ten throughout his stay here until last year.
When he became available for trade, just about every team in the league inquired about him, several teams (playoff contenders mostly) made offers.
The Rams-the defending NFC Champs-made the winning offer, which was two first round picks and a 4th round pick. That bounty was more than the Bears got for Khalil Mack.
The return we got for him wasn't trash, either at face value. But I believe the Chaisson pick makes it closer to trash.
Don't miss the point here. It isn't as much about trading Ramsey as it is the failure to maximize the value of the picks obtained in the Ramsey trade.
Browns got a 1st for Trent Richardson. You act like you already know what type of career Chaisson is gonna have and its a failed pick lol
Well, if I am wrong, i will be more than happy to fess up and eat crow, because it is more likely to mean the Jaguars are winning. But based on this board's reaction to the pick, I'm certainly not the only one less than enthused about the pick.
(04-23-2020, 11:47 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:43 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeah we should beg him to stay and make all the decisions they want. We should let them choose the GM, the HC, the QB, as long as they are talented we should let them do whatever they want. Let them skip training camp if they want too...
You didn't answer the question.
How do you expect to build a good defense when you let your most talented players on that side of the ball walk and not adequately replace them?
Everyone laughed at Houston for giving away Hopkins and Clowney for songs. But at least they have a track record of success, and stand a good chance of winning the division this year.
Can we say the same?
Not even close to being the same thing. Hopkins didn't fake injuries or went public on how he was desperate to leave.
Your question is just lol, it doesn't matter because those guys didn't/don't wanna be here.
Ngakoue makes lil difference and has become a cancer
Ramsey was a cancer and faked an injury
Also we don't replace them adequately? we just spent a 1st rounder on a CB and a 1st on a DE... oh right, we should have traded for Bosa or Mack and Patrick Peterson or Gilmore...
(04-23-2020, 11:41 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:32 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Did you see henderson's face? He didn't look overly enthused to be picked by us.
Should we trade HIM?
Wow this is pretty weak
https://twitter.com/HendersonChris_/stat...61472?s=20
I forgot this is the first time a player cries after he gets drafted
Hmm....Staubach wanted to be traded at one point. Should Dallas have traded him?
Weak, indeed!
Tell me you are thrilled with the Chaisson pick.
(04-23-2020, 11:57 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:41 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Wow this is pretty weak
https://twitter.com/HendersonChris_/stat...61472?s=20
I forgot this is the first time a player cries after he gets drafted
Hmm....Staubach wanted to be traded at one point. Should Dallas have traded him?
Weak, indeed!
Tell me you are thrilled with the Chaisson pick.
Don't mind me then keep on crying, it is pretty funny
Thing with Ramsey is that he has the talent, but lacks commitment, drive etc. that you want from a player. Sure he’ll work when everything’s perfect (i.e 2017). At this point with the Rams situation I’d be surprised if he stays there. Obviously a me first player. I’ll take 2 first round chances all day over that.
(04-23-2020, 11:55 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:47 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]You didn't answer the question.
How do you expect to build a good defense when you let your most talented players on that side of the ball walk and not adequately replace them?
Everyone laughed at Houston for giving away Hopkins and Clowney for songs. But at least they have a track record of success, and stand a good chance of winning the division this year.
Can we say the same?
Not even close to being the same thing. Hopkins didn't fake injuries or went public on how he was desperate to leave.
Your question is just lol, it doesn't matter because those guys didn't/don't wanna be here.
Ngakoue makes lil difference and has become a cancer
Ramsey was a cancer and faked an injury
Also we don't replace them adequately? we just spent a 1st rounder on a CB and a 1st on a DE... oh right, we should have traded for Bosa or Mack and Patrick Peterson or Gilmore...
It's the same thing.
The organization pissed the player off. The player pissed the decision maker in the organization off.
Was there ANY indication Ramsey EVER faked an injury until TC intervened and pissed him off?!? By then, he faked the injury to force the trade.
But again, focusing on Ramsey misses the point. Even if you think Ramsey deserved to be dealt, certainly you don't believe, as a presumed Jaguars fan, the team doesn't need to adequately replace him, or maximize the picks we got in exchange for him?
(04-24-2020, 12:00 AM)Jags239 Wrote: [ -> ]Thing with Ramsey is that he has the talent, but lacks commitment, drive etc. that you want from a player. Sure he’ll work when everything’s perfect (i.e 2017). At this point with the Rams situation I’d be surprised if he stays there. Obviously a me first player. I’ll take 2 first round chances all day over that.
If you maximize those chances, then fine.
I don't think we did with the Chaisson pick. I hope I am wrong.
(04-23-2020, 11:58 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:57 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Hmm....Staubach wanted to be traded at one point. Should Dallas have traded him?
Weak, indeed!
Tell me you are thrilled with the Chaisson pick.
Don't mind me then keep on crying, it is pretty funny
Crying?
Nice filibuster.
Still haven't answered the questions.
The only way we could have even gotten close to replacing Ramsey's talent was to select Jeff Okudah.
And he was taken at #3, so there was no chance of that.
(04-23-2020, 11:42 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Just a perfect example on why I am an advocate of player for player deals. I HATE player for picks. Like you said... drafting on a treadmill. Since early 2000's.
Chaisson and Henderson could end up very good, but NEWS FLASH... without a QB and protection for him... you LOSING a lottt of games! I wanted to know if Minshew could be the guy. FA and 1st round is done, very UNLIKELY an impact player will be brought on 2-7 round. It's completely unfair to ask immediate impact from any rookie, but you could ramp expectations at least for a 1st rounder. Just so disappointing. Minshew running for his life all year. Hope he doesn't get seriously hurt.
I don't object to player for picks trades, per se But dammit hit on the picks you get in exchange for the player you trade away, especially if he is a superstar.
At this point, I am unconvinced they ht with the Chaisson pick.
Furthermore, I agree with you that by eschewing T and WR, we have put Minshew in a tenuous situation. We stilll have picks left to address these positions, but we left a lot of talent to other teams, talent that could have been of benefit to Minshew and the team.
(04-24-2020, 12:07 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]The only way we could have even gotten close to replacing Ramsey's talent was to select Jeff Okudah.
And he was taken at #3, so there was no chance of that.
To be clear, adequately replacing Ramsey's talent didn't necessarily have to come from the same position Ramsey played.
If we drafted All Pro talent at other positions with the picks we acquired from the Ramsey trade, I would consider that "adequately replacing."
But as it stands now, I don't see Chaisson at that level of talent. I desperately want to be proven wrong.
(04-23-2020, 11:42 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Chaisson and Henderson could end up very good, but NEWS FLASH... without a QB and protection for him... you LOSING a lottt of games! I wanted to know if Minshew could be the guy. FA and 1st round is done, very UNLIKELY an impact player will be brought on 2-7 round. It's completely unfair to ask immediate impact from any rookie, but you could ramp expectations at least for a 1st rounder. Just so disappointing. Minshew running for his life all year. Hope he doesn't get seriously hurt.
Exactly. Minshew can't do much when he's on his back 2 seconds after the snap. The team made the decision that Minshew was the man. They needed to give him someone on the line to give him time to do what he can do.
(04-24-2020, 12:30 AM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:42 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Chaisson and Henderson could end up very good, but NEWS FLASH... without a QB and protection for him... you LOSING a lottt of games! I wanted to know if Minshew could be the guy. FA and 1st round is done, very UNLIKELY an impact player will be brought on 2-7 round. It's completely unfair to ask immediate impact from any rookie, but you could ramp expectations at least for a 1st rounder. Just so disappointing. Minshew running for his life all year. Hope he doesn't get seriously hurt.
Exactly. Minshew can't do much when he's on his back 2 seconds after the snap. The team made the decision that Minshew was the man. They needed to give him someone on the line to give him time to do what he can do.
Fortunately, there is still an outside chance we could provide that for him with Josh Jones and Ezra Cleveland still on the board, along with a few decent interior OLs.
But even considering the available depth of the WR class, assuming we address LT at 42, when do we get to providing him with more weapons?
(04-24-2020, 12:39 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KahunaMed/status/125...63776?s=20
This video is great dude roasts Ramsey while he is on the phone with Fournette.
Nah we haven't replaced him adequately, until we get an All pro at CB.
You saw what Ramsey did for the Rams? Almost got them a SB. I am sure the Rams are pretty happy with that trade, and they are even gonna be more happy after the season ends, just watch lol.
I don't get the dislike of the Chaisson pick... He's a freak athlete who can play SLB and DE for us. last year he was 1 year removed from an ACL tear, he hasn't even fully regained his explosion yet. Also he almost routinely hit the qb on T/E stunts at LSU, and we call A LOTTTTT of T/E stunts; I think it was a great pick and him and Josh Allen should be our bookend pass rushers for the next 10 years. I don't understand the backlash of this fanbase I really don't.