(04-24-2020, 12:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 12:39 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KahunaMed/status/125...63776?s=20
This video is great dude roasts Ramsey while he is on the phone with Fournette.
Nah we haven't replaced him adequately, until we get an All pro at CB.
You saw what Ramsey did for the Rams? Almost got them a SB. I am sure the Rams are pretty happy with that trade, and they are even gonna be more happy after the season ends, just watch lol.
Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours?
I specifically stated adequate replacement does not necessarily mean at the same position. Here...
#35
28 minutes ago (This post was last modified: 25 minutes ago by
Bullseye.)
As for the Rams...of course their 9-7 season (3 more wins than us, BTW) had nothing to do with other issues on the Rams, right?
I like the pick.
But I’m curious, who would’ve justified the Ramsey pick in your opinion? Is there someone you felt would’ve lived up to expectations at #19?
(04-24-2020, 12:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 12:39 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KahunaMed/status/125...63776?s=20
This video is great dude roasts Ramsey while he is on the phone with Fournette.
Nah we haven't replaced him adequately, until we get an All pro at CB.
You saw what Ramsey did for the Rams? Almost got them a SB. I am sure the Rams are pretty happy wirh that trade. And they are even gonna be more happy aftwr the season ends, just watch lol.
All I saw was him try to "fight" Peters then give up a play that lost them their season and throw his new team mate under the bus for it, and spend the rest of the interview crying about how he came to the Rams to make the playoffs.
I not saying he sucks or that Henderson is really gonna replace him but his attitude is always gonna keep him from being truly great and now that the Rams are in cap hell its only a matter of time before his back starts to give out again.
(04-24-2020, 12:51 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 12:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Nah we haven't replaced him adequately, until we get an All pro at CB.
You saw what Ramsey did for the Rams? Almost got them a SB. I am sure the Rams are pretty happy wirh that trade. And they are even gonna be more happy aftwr the season ends, just watch lol.
All I saw was him try to "fight" Peters then give up a play that lost them their season and throw his new team mate under the bus for it, and spend the rest of the interview crying about how he came to the Rams to make the playoffs.
I not saying he sucks or that Henderson is really gonna replace him but his attitude is always gonna keep him from being truly great and now that the Rams are in cap hell its only a matter of time before his back starts to give out again.
Man, I wish he could have done that for us...
(04-24-2020, 12:54 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 12:51 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]All I saw was him try to "fight" Peters then give up a play that lost them their season and throw his new team mate under the bus for it, and spend the rest of the interview crying about how he came to the Rams to make the playoffs.
I not saying he sucks or that Henderson is really gonna replace him but his attitude is always gonna keep him from being truly great and now that the Rams are in cap hell its only a matter of time before his back starts to give out again.
Man, I wish he could have done that for us...
If I was a betting man i`d say unless the Rams tag him he won`t be playing for them after this year.
(04-24-2020, 12:58 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 12:54 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I wish he could have done that for us...
If I was a betting man i`d say unless the Rams tag him he won`t be playing for them after this year.
Same.
He is gonna cry his way out again for sure.
(04-24-2020, 12:51 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]I like the pick.
But I’m curious, who would’ve justified the Ramsey pick in your opinion? Is there someone you felt would’ve lived up to expectations at #19?
Now THAT is an important question, one that is difficult to answer given our low draft position.
Twenty is right about the position where the talent started to drop off.
I was hoping for Kinlay or Jeudy, but they went off the boards before pick twenty.
Accordingly, I was hoping to either trade up and get one of the players I felt have Pro bowl potential, or trade back and accumulate more picks.
Now I understand my lack of a more definitive answer may cause some issues with some of you.
But given the low positioning of the pick, that end result was pretty much a given, barring something extraordinary happening.
If Chaisson becomes the Pro Bowl player for us I currently doubt he can become (and to be fair, the few outside grades I have seen have been far more generous to the pick than I have been), then he will constitute adequate replacement of the Ramsey trade.
Right now, I don't see it.
(04-23-2020, 11:24 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]my thought as well. They guy that coast his team a playoff spot
The last playoff spot we had since 2007 was in 2017. Ramsey played a big part in that.
But the point is being lost here. If we sufficiently replaced the talent represented by Ramsey, then I have no complaint.
But we botched the #20 pick we got from the Rams.
I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Chaisson is a bad man.
(04-24-2020, 01:09 AM)nate Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:24 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]The last playoff spot we had since 2007 was in 2017. Ramsey played a big part in that.
But the point is being lost here. If we sufficiently replaced the talent represented by Ramsey, then I have no complaint.
But we botched the #20 pick we got from the Rams.
I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Chaisson is a bad man.
Well, I hope I am wrong about our picks in the first round. I see Chaisson as having a better burst than a predecessor of his, Barkevious Mingo. But I didn't see the production.
I just stated this in another thread, but we had two firsts, as did the 49ers. Ours were higher than theirs.
I think they got more out of their two picks (Kinlaw and Aiyuk) than we got out of ours.
(04-23-2020, 11:22 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:10 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Lol at people missing Ramsey xD
Yes, considering his level of talent.
But we're the Jaguars. Talent is not welcome here.
For what profits a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?
(04-23-2020, 11:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:43 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]But that's the thing.
He wasn't trash.
He made two Pro bowls and was First team All Pro while he was here, and our defense ranked in the top ten throughout his stay here until last year.
When he became available for trade, just about every team in the league inquired about him, several teams (playoff contenders mostly) made offers.
The Rams-the defending NFC Champs-made the winning offer, which was two first round picks and a 4th round pick. That bounty was more than the Bears got for Khalil Mack.
The return we got for him wasn't trash, either at face value. But I believe the Chaisson pick makes it closer to trash.
Don't miss the point here. It isn't as much about trading Ramsey as it is the failure to maximize the value of the picks obtained in the Ramsey trade.
Browns got a 1st for Trent Richardson. You act like you already know what type of career Chaisson is gonna have and its a failed pick lol
You literally called him Arden Key 3 weeks ago.... your attitude has only changed because he’s a Jag.
Were the Jags to continue paying that [BLEEP] while he faked injury?
I don't get the dislike of either pick really. Henderson was highly regarded, even if a few board posters who know jack about diddly didn't like him. He's a cover corner with suspect tackling, but we don't need him to tackle we need him to cover. And I remember a knock on Ramsey being no INTs, then he was catching some INTs in the NFL so maybe we should take a beat and calm down a bit.
As per the pick at 20... any pick at 20, no matter who they were, wasn't going to be an equal value to the talent of Ramsey. However, we got an edge rusher who is actually good vs the run and can drop into coverage. The team has recently noted that we'd have a few more 34 looks so perhaps we'll see him used a bit like a chess piece. So now we have a possible replacement to Yan, and if nothing else a replacement for Fowler. The Ramsey trade didn't only net us the 20 pick, it netted us a 2021 first rounder and 4th rounder as well. So there is no telling who we get with those picks.... But 3 players for 1 player that doesn't want to be here is always a win, imo.
We now have a legit #1 CB and we have another pass rusher. Ramsey was a hell of a talent. But the compensation was great for a player who was done here and had no intention of resigning. If we can move Yan for a 2021 first at this point, I'd be good with that too.
Did the first round land exactly like anyone wanted it? Doubtful... Everyone has their favorite players and the way they want the draft to go. But I think it's a very good start at a rebuild.
(04-24-2020, 10:02 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get the dislike of either pick really. Henderson was highly regarded, even if a few board posters who know jack about diddly didn't like him. He's a cover corner with suspect tackling, but we don't need him to tackle we need him to cover. And I remember a knock on Ramsey being no INTs, then he was catching some INTs in the NFL so maybe we should take a beat and calm down a bit.
As per the pick at 20... any pick at 20, no matter who they were, wasn't going to be an equal value to the talent of Ramsey. However, we got an edge rusher who is actually good vs the run and can drop into coverage. The team has recently noted that we'd have a few more 34 looks so perhaps we'll see him used a bit like a chess piece. So now we have a possible replacement to Yan, and if nothing else a replacement for Fowler. The Ramsey trade didn't only net us the 20 pick, it netted us a 2021 first rounder and 4th rounder as well. So there is no telling who we get with those picks.... But 3 players for 1 player that doesn't want to be here is always a win, imo.
We now have a legit #1 CB and we have another pass rusher. Ramsey was a hell of a talent. But the compensation was great for a player who was done here and had no intention of resigning. If we can move Yan for a 2021 first at this point, I'd be good with that too.
Did the first round land exactly like anyone wanted it? Doubtful... Everyone has their favorite players and the way they want the draft to go. But I think it's a very good start at a rebuild.
This post 1000000000%.
I don't know why it's so hard to follow.
Ramsey-level talent was never going to be replenished with that #20 pick - but the compensation we received for a player who checked out on his organization, team, and teammates OUTWARDLY was very surprising in a good way.
(04-24-2020, 01:18 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 01:09 AM)nate Wrote: [ -> ]I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Chaisson is a bad man.
Well, I hope I am wrong about our picks in the first round. I see Chaisson as having a better burst than a predecessor of his, Barkevious Mingo. But I didn't see the production.
I just stated this in another thread, but we had two firsts, as did the 49ers. Ours were higher than theirs.
I think they got more out of their two picks (Kinlaw and Aiyuk) than we got out of ours.
Would you have been happier if we had taken Kinlaw at 9 and Aiyuk at 20?
Considering the run on CB in the first round... I'm not sure we'd be good at that position for 2020 had we waited until round 2 like many of us thought. And there is still lots of WR talent left in the draft... And still a few interior DL guys that can be had as well.
(04-23-2020, 10:54 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]One of my arguments against trading Ramsey was even with the extra first round picks dealing him provided, it was far from guaranteed we'd get players close in quality to Ramsey.
We now have one of the picks from the Ramsey deal: K'Lavon Chaisson.
Now perhaps I may be wrong about this. God knows I hope I am. He does have more of a burst than Barkevious Mingo. But This pick doesn't come close to recoouping value for Ramsey.
For that matter, neither does reaching for Henderson at 9.
How was Henderson a reach? Who was better in a position of need? Who was going to line up the other side of Tre? He was Chris Simm's #1 corner and the 2nd best by most experts. Only reach here is in your mind.
(04-23-2020, 10:54 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]One of my arguments against trading Ramsey was even with the extra first round picks dealing him provided, it was far from guaranteed we'd get players close in quality to Ramsey.
We now have one of the picks from the Ramsey deal: K'Lavon Chaisson.
Now perhaps I may be wrong about this. God knows I hope I am. He does have more of a burst than Barkevious Mingo. But This pick doesn't come close to recoouping value for Ramsey.
For that matter, neither does reaching for Henderson at 9.
By the numbers your right. The probability of either of these players being "best in your position" good is very low. I wouldn't have traded Ramsey.
That being said, we will only know once they play and as a Jag I have to hope they perform.
(04-24-2020, 10:04 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2020, 10:02 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get the dislike of either pick really. Henderson was highly regarded, even if a few board posters who know jack about diddly didn't like him. He's a cover corner with suspect tackling, but we don't need him to tackle we need him to cover. And I remember a knock on Ramsey being no INTs, then he was catching some INTs in the NFL so maybe we should take a beat and calm down a bit.
As per the pick at 20... any pick at 20, no matter who they were, wasn't going to be an equal value to the talent of Ramsey. However, we got an edge rusher who is actually good vs the run and can drop into coverage. The team has recently noted that we'd have a few more 34 looks so perhaps we'll see him used a bit like a chess piece. So now we have a possible replacement to Yan, and if nothing else a replacement for Fowler. The Ramsey trade didn't only net us the 20 pick, it netted us a 2021 first rounder and 4th rounder as well. So there is no telling who we get with those picks.... But 3 players for 1 player that doesn't want to be here is always a win, imo.
We now have a legit #1 CB and we have another pass rusher. Ramsey was a hell of a talent. But the compensation was great for a player who was done here and had no intention of resigning. If we can move Yan for a 2021 first at this point, I'd be good with that too.
Did the first round land exactly like anyone wanted it? Doubtful... Everyone has their favorite players and the way they want the draft to go. But I think it's a very good start at a rebuild.
This post 1000000000%.
I don't know why it's so hard to follow.
Ramsey-level talent was never going to be replenished with that #20 pick - but the compensation we received for a player who checked out on his organization, team, and teammates OUTWARDLY was very surprising in a good way.
Indeed... but I've always thought no ONE player is worth handicapping a roster with their pay or attitude.
K'Lavon + 2021 1st + 2021 4th > Ramsey (especially for one year)
and Hell.... maybe the guy we get with the Rams first next year (possible top ten selection) ends up actually being better than Ramsey... we just don't know until we see all of the fruits.
(04-24-2020, 10:10 AM)uthill Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 10:54 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]One of my arguments against trading Ramsey was even with the extra first round picks dealing him provided, it was far from guaranteed we'd get players close in quality to Ramsey.
We now have one of the picks from the Ramsey deal: K'Lavon Chaisson.
Now perhaps I may be wrong about this. God knows I hope I am. He does have more of a burst than Barkevious Mingo. But This pick doesn't come close to recoouping value for Ramsey.
For that matter, neither does reaching for Henderson at 9.
How was Henderson a reach? Who was better in a position of need? Who was going to line up the other side of Tre? He was Chris Simm's #1 corner and the 2nd best by most experts. Only reach here is in your mind.
I get the feeling it is some UF hate.
- shrug -
Lots of posters on this board are "anti UF" anyone. Seems like a long time to hold on to some Derrick Harvey hatred or even weirder to allow your college rivalry stuff to linger into the NFL.
(04-24-2020, 09:52 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Browns got a 1st for Trent Richardson. You act like you already know what type of career Chaisson is gonna have and its a failed pick lol
You literally called him Arden Key 3 weeks ago.... your attitude has only changed because he’s a Jag.
I vaguely recall seeing an Arden Key reference somewhere on the board, but I do not recall the context.
Without ipugning flgatorsandjags, it would not surprise me if some of that is part of the dynamic.
(04-23-2020, 11:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 11:24 PM)Mandeezee Wrote: [ -> ]Only worth paying a CB the money Ramsey wanted on a very good D where all you need is a lock down cb. Jags D has too many holes so an elite cb like Ramsey is a waste.
We're going need to play good TEAM ball.
How do you expect to build a good defense when...
a) You let your talented players like Ramsey and Yan walk; and
B) You don't adequately replace them when they walk?!?
Sorry but I can't just let these statements slide...
A.) They didn't walk we got 2 1st and a 4th for Ramsey...Yan is rumored to net a 2021 1st or at minimum a 2nd. Hell he might even swallow is pride and come back (longshot but who the heck knows with him)
B.) Way too early to tell...
I wanted Wirfs but I do have to recognize that there was still 2 OT drafted before him AFTER 9...so maybe he wasn't as clear cut Elite as many of us thought.
At 20, I was pulling for Jefferson but also realize Caldwell has a knack for 2nd round WRs and this is a Deep Draft at that position. I don't think there were any OL worth it at 20 and we obviously are going with Minshew so no Love.
Who would you have preferred at 20?