Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(04-24-2020, 11:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 10:49 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I give you credit for your response.  Though I disagree with many of your conclusions and some of the reasoning behind it, you at least approached your answer from a purely football perspective as opposed to letting personality dictate your response.  As for Henderson's deficiencies and your statement that he's being paid to cover, not tackle, I agree that is his primary purpose.  But you better believe if any dispute arises between he and the team, fans here will be the very first to use his lack of tackling prowess as a justification to rail against him.  Yan is an edge rusher.  He's was drafted to rush the passer.  He has been very good at it and now wants to be rewarded for it.  Before his holdout, the majority of the board wanted to re-sign him.  Now?  All anyone talks about in analyzing him as a football player is his run defense.  I'm excluding his twitter beef.  Everyone agrees he didn't handle that well.  But I'm talking specifically as a football player.

I think another thing lost on all of this is we have had two prominent players on our team get so pissed with the front office the differences became irreconcilable.

Does this concern ANY of you?!?

Fair point... but fans gonna fan. I mean, we're all doing it 24 hrs into the draft already right? lol
Yeah Yan catches a lot of flack for not being great against the run, even though he has drastically improved in that area. I was all in on pay Yan until he went full on Ramsey on Twitter.
And you're right, many people who are good with the Henderson pick probably will do a 180 if he isn't a great player, or pulls some drama in the media and they may use his lack of tackling as an excuse as why "they never liked him" 
But my point is... maybe his tackling isn't as bad as we think... I mean, Sanders wasn't a tackler either. 

Does any of the Ramsey/Yan stuff concern me? Nah, not really. Different strokes for different folks. We knew about Ramsey's personality day 1, Yannick's thing kind of developed.
If we start to see more of it, it would start to concern me. But for every one of those guys we had some stand up dudes like AJ and Calais. Men who knew how to go about the biz. These kids have entitlement and personality issues. That's on them, not on the team.
Did the team screw up when they probably could've locked them up sooner? Sure. But that ship has sailed and I'm not going to think about how they could screw it up with the next slew of draft picks.

As it relates to on the field, I think these two selections are good for the team. As it relates to the trade, I think we got some lemonade from a lemon and we're trying to make some more with another. Talent wise? These guys were awesome for our team. And you rarely replace a developed elite talent with another right away. Henderson won't be Ramsey right away, but he should be a legit #1 CB right away, which we desperately needed. K'Lavon might need some developing or he might surprise. But he adds a solid player to a position of need if/when Yan leaves.

As per the value of the trade, like I said, we gotta see what 2021 nets us before really coming to conclusions but I'll take 3 players being solid contributors/starters over 1 elite player. Because it takes a village my man. No team ever won the superbowl because of a loud mouth HoF CB alone.
So far from the Ramsey trade we got a pass rusher and two picks in 2021, one of which could be a high first rounder. Hell... that pick could turn out to be Trevor Lawrence, if you're a fan of his, I'd assume you'd take that trade off all by itself (Ramsey for a "franchise QB")

(04-23-2020, 11:42 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Just a perfect example on why I am an advocate of player for player deals. I HATE player for picks. Like you said... drafting on a treadmill. Since  early 2000's.

Chaisson and Henderson could end up very good, but NEWS FLASH... without a QB and protection for him... you LOSING a lottt of games! I wanted to know if Minshew could be the guy. FA and 1st round is done, very UNLIKELY an impact player will be brought on 2-7 round. It's completely unfair to ask immediate impact from any rookie, but you could ramp expectations at least for a 1st rounder. Just so disappointing. Minshew running for his life all year. Hope he doesn't get seriously hurt.

(04-24-2020, 11:23 AM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:16 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]1.  Don't alienate your star level talent.

2.  If that is unavoidable and you trade the star level talent, make the most out of the pickks you get from him


The Rams were a cheap organization when thy were first in Los Angeles, and RB Eric Dickerson was constantly bickering with the team over his contract.

Finally it became unbearable for the team, and they traded him away to the Colts.

They got a huge haul fom the trade.

  

Read More: Halloween, 1987: Eric Dickerson Traded To Colts | https://espn1420.com/halloween-1987-eric...m=referral



Now if 3 picks for one player who doesn't want to be here is good, then certainly the rams made out like bandits, right?

The only thing is they botched the overwhelming majority of the picks!  That trade should have set them up for success for years.  Instead, it set them up for failure.

By the fans perspective, getting rid of a player you deem to be a malcontent has value.

But I submit a talented but unhappy player is less of a headache than having a team of less talented players.

And the Saints gave up a whole draft plus a 1/3 for a RB.

Trades like those don't happen anymore.

(04-24-2020, 11:52 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is the bigger question of why do we keep finding ourselves in these situations with our best players. Sure you have contract disputes but i dont see players on other teams going to the level our guys do to get out. You can say they were all bad apples or didnt want to be here but why? 

I dont get this obsession with draft picks for talent, only if your going to replace or improve. We have stripped out what last bits of talent we can get picks for and are trying to get rid of Fournette and Ngakoue too. The talent has dropped massively on this roster, especially D.

Could you not also argue Ramsey tried to talk to coaches about ways we can improve and be better and was ignored/fined and just decided to go elsewhere? How long would you stay at your job if your boss was doing it wrong everyday and blamed you for trying to fix things?

(04-24-2020, 11:52 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is the bigger question of why do we keep finding ourselves in these situations with our best players. Sure you have contract disputes but i dont see players on other teams going to the level our guys do to get out. You can say they were all bad apples or didnt want to be here but why? 

I dont get this obsession with draft picks for talent, only if your going to replace or improve. We have stripped out what last bits of talent we can get picks for and are trying to get rid of Fournette and Ngakoue too. The talent has dropped massively on this roster, especially D.

Could you not also argue Ramsey tried to talk to coaches about ways we can improve and be better and was ignored/fined and just decided to go elsewhere? How long would you stay at your job if your boss was doing it wrong everyday and blamed you for trying to fix things?

(04-24-2020, 11:53 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:23 AM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]And the Saints gave up a whole draft plus a 1/3 for a RB.

Trades like those don't happen anymore.

That is besides the point.  The purpose of mentioning that trade is to take the fans logic (multiple players and/or players in exchange for a disgruntled star is a good thing) and show that it's not always a good thing.  

The point is whatever you get in exchange for a star player you trade away, you need to hit on the picks in order to make the trade worth iit.

At the moment, my take is that we did not maximize one of the three picks we got in exchange for trading Ramsey.

---

(04-24-2020, 11:52 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is the bigger question of why do we keep finding ourselves in these situations with our best players. Sure you have contract disputes but i dont see players on other teams going to the level our guys do to get out. You can say they were all bad apples or didnt want to be here but why? 

I dont get this obsession with draft picks for talent, only if your going to replace or improve. We have stripped out what last bits of talent we can get picks for and are trying to get rid of Fournette and Ngakoue too. The talent has dropped massively on this roster, especially D.

Could you not also argue Ramsey tried to talk to coaches about ways we can improve and be better and was ignored/fined and just decided to go elsewhere? How long would you stay at your job if your boss was doing it wrong everyday and blamed you for trying to fix things?

Someone gets it!

(04-24-2020, 11:58 AM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:52 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is the bigger question of why do we keep finding ourselves in these situations with our best players. Sure you have contract disputes but i dont see players on other teams going to the level our guys do to get out. You can say they were all bad apples or didnt want to be here but why? 

I dont get this obsession with draft picks for talent, only if your going to replace or improve. We have stripped out what last bits of talent we can get picks for and are trying to get rid of Fournette and Ngakoue too. The talent has dropped massively on this roster, especially D.

Could you not also argue Ramsey tried to talk to coaches about ways we can improve and be better and was ignored/fined and just decided to go elsewhere? How long would you stay at your job if your boss was doing it wrong everyday and blamed you for trying to fix things?

Well we can only hope that it was all TC...

Was this crap happening before he got here?

And before we jump to the Ngakoue situation...I think that started with TC and now Ngakoue has dug himself too deep down the rabbit hole to remedy the situation.

(04-24-2020, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 10:32 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I think the major part of the hostility to my point is the absolutely polarizing nature of Ramsey.  I get the hostility to the guy/

But to the very best of my knowledge, tKhalil Mack did not engage in any of the behavior exhibited by Ramsey, and got a similar return in trade.

I would be similarly critical of the Raiders for botching the picks. 

They got Abrams, the Miss. State S last year who played very little, and they got Damon Arnette this year.

So far, the ROI from those picks appears minimal.

Take the personality out of it.  View it from the lens of a pure talent exchange.

A difficult task, I get it.

So is your point theoretical? Because the Raiders screwed up (and I'm sure you can come up with other examples) that means trading an All Pro player is never justified?

Whether or not you like the Chaisson pick (and I didn't) he was the top rated player on a lot of boards. The Cowboys were planning on him before Lamb fell into their laps. Caldwell has show success in drafting edge rushers, and not so much with OTs. Both Prisco and Walter gave the pick A grades (admittedly there was grade inflation from both with a lot of A's), and from NFL.com who gave the Jags a grade-inflated A overall:

(04-24-2020, 12:07 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:58 AM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]Well we can only hope that it was all TC...

Was this crap happening before he got here?

And before we jump to the Ngakoue situation...I think that started with TC and now Ngakoue has dug himself too deep down the rabbit hole to remedy the situation.

I love Yan and would love nothing more than this whole issue to just go away but im not defending his actions since the season ended. Acting an idiot and only hurting his chances of getting out of here. You can get paid or go, just not both.

I think we all hope that TC was the sole problem but we know its not. You go back to the start of Khan and Caldwell, we purged the roster of any talent and drafted O. Bortles-Robinson-Hurns looked like our guys going forward but one by one fell apart.

Then we had the 2017 D. Truly elite. It should have been compared to the Seattle D, Tampa D, Baltimore D. It could do everything and it was filled with young talent. Of that whole D, we have Yan and Jack left. Thats it. IN 3 YEARS!

It feels like weve had good players and chances to build a true competing team but we just let it slip through our fingers

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
So is your point theoretical? Because the Raiders screwed up (and I'm sure you can come up with other examples) that means trading an All Pro player is never justified?

Whether or not you like the Chaisson pick (and I didn't) he was the top rated player on a lot of boards. The Cowboys were planning on him before Lamb fell into their laps. Caldwell has show success in drafting edge rushers, and not so much with OTs. Both Prisco and Walter gave the pick A grades (admittedly there was grade inflation from both with a lot of A's), and from NFL.com who gave the Jags a grade-inflated A overall:

(emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
So is your point theoretical? Because the Raiders screwed up (and I'm sure you can come up with other examples) that means trading an All Pro player is never justified?

Whether or not you like the Chaisson pick (and I didn't) he was the top rated player on a lot of boards. The Cowboys were planning on him before Lamb fell into their laps. Caldwell has show success in drafting edge rushers, and not so much with OTs. Both Prisco and Walter gave the pick A grades (admittedly there was grade inflation from both with a lot of A's), and from NFL.com who gave the Jags a grade-inflated A overall:

(emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

(04-24-2020, 12:18 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 12:07 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I love Yan and would love nothing more than this whole issue to just go away but im not defending his actions since the season ended. Acting an idiot and only hurting his chances of getting out of here. You can get paid or go, just not both.

I think we all hope that TC was the sole problem but we know its not. You go back to the start of Khan and Caldwell, we purged the roster of any talent and drafted O. Bortles-Robinson-Hurns looked like our guys going forward but one by one fell apart.

Then we had the 2017 D. Truly elite. It should have been compared to the Seattle D, Tampa D, Baltimore D. It could do everything and it was filled with young talent. Of that whole D, we have Yan and Jack left. Thats it. IN 3 YEARS!

It feels like weve had good players and chances to build a true competing team but we just let it slip through our fingers

Robinson was the only one that kind of falls into that Issue with FO//Bad decision by FO category.  It could have been as simple as he didn't want to play with Bortles anymore but he made it clear he didn't want to play here anymore and we let him walk (with no compensation unlike the Ramsey/Ngakoue (hopefully) situation).

The 2017 D falls into TC influence...

Caldwell got here in 2013/2014?  Who on the roster at that time was worth a crap?  Mojo/Mercedes/Poz  who did we really jettison off?

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
So is your point theoretical? Because the Raiders screwed up (and I'm sure you can come up with other examples) that means trading an All Pro player is never justified?

Whether or not you like the Chaisson pick (and I didn't) he was the top rated player on a lot of boards. The Cowboys were planning on him before Lamb fell into their laps. Caldwell has show success in drafting edge rushers, and not so much with OTs. Both Prisco and Walter gave the pick A grades (admittedly there was grade inflation from both with a lot of A's), and from NFL.com who gave the Jags a grade-inflated A overall:

(emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
So is your point theoretical? Because the Raiders screwed up (and I'm sure you can come up with other examples) that means trading an All Pro player is never justified?

Whether or not you like the Chaisson pick (and I didn't) he was the top rated player on a lot of boards. The Cowboys were planning on him before Lamb fell into their laps. Caldwell has show success in drafting edge rushers, and not so much with OTs. Both Prisco and Walter gave the pick A grades (admittedly there was grade inflation from both with a lot of A's), and from NFL.com who gave the Jags a grade-inflated A overall:

(emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

(04-24-2020, 12:30 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but, to sum up the last 5 pages, what you seem to be trying to say is, at this point you're not sure if Chaisson was the best pick at #20.

Sorry, Bullseye, I love ya man, but I couldn't resist.

(04-24-2020, 12:23 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

Points 1 & 2 both fall on the gross mismanagement by TC. To your point, Tom decided to extend Jack because of his "approach" when we all knew Ramsey deserved it more. The main cause of the malignancy in our organization has been nipped with Tom being shown out the door. Unfortunately, some of the remnants of his ways still linger with Yannick's malcontent.

As for point 3, at #20 the odds of selecting a pro bowl talent are slimmer than selecting at a higher position. Who did you think had the highest chance of becoming a "pro bowl" talent with the players available at our #20 pick? Chaisson is widely regarded as having an incredibly high ceiling with very good production and possessing strong leadership qualities early in his collegiate career.

And ultimately, we got everything we could for a player who would not play another down here - and to think of it as anything otherwise is indicative of a mental block.

(04-24-2020, 12:29 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]If it's about point 3 then that would apply to any draft pick, not just one we got in a trade, so I don't know why you brought up the Ramsey trade.

Is there a point 4 that screwing up a pick you get in a trade is worse than screwing up a different pick? If that's your reason for adding in the Ramsey trade then I counter that picking Fournette instead of Mahomes is far worse than completely blowing all three of the Ramsey picks.

You don't like the Chaisson pick, I get it. Just say that. We won't know for a couple of years whether or not the Chaisson pick was the best player. Even if not the best player he could have been the best option if the better player is (say) a WR and we end up with and equally good WR later in the draft.

(04-24-2020, 12:30 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but, to sum up the last 5 pages, what you seem to be trying to say is, at this point you're not sure if Chaisson was the best pick at #20.

Sorry, Bullseye, I love ya man, but I couldn't resist.

(04-24-2020, 12:29 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 12:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](emphasis added)

No, that's not what I am saying.

Let me summarize...

1.  If you have a star player on your roster, do what you can to keep him.  If he becomes unhappy, do what you can to smooth things over.
2.  If the differences between him and the team become completely untenable, get as many picks as you can for him.
3.  Make sure you turn the picks you get in exchange for him into the best players.

I have mixed feelings about #1.  I think the team was slow to give him a new deal when other players drafted immediately above him in the same draft class got new deals.  Ramsey did not.  Then there was the whole thing with Coughlin.  Those things pissed Ramsey off and were completely avoidable.  However, the team DID try to smooth things over with him (at least everyone but TC did).  Marrone said he wanted to keep him.  Caldwell said he wanted to keep him.  Khan said he wanted to keep him and met with him to try to achieve that result.

Point 2, I absolutely believe the team achieved this result.  No problem with this part.

Point 3 is where I have the issue at this point.  Might my perspective change?  Sure.  If Chaisson becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player for us, my opinion will change.  Or if he doesn't, if the picks we get in 2021 turn into Pro Bowl caliber players, then my opinion changes.

If it's about point 3 then that would apply to any draft pick, not just one we got in a trade, so I don't know why you brought up the Ramsey trade.

Is there a point 4 that screwing up a pick you get in a trade is worse than screwing up a different pick? If that's your reason for adding in the Ramsey trade then I counter that picking Fournette instead of Mahomes is far worse than completely blowing all three of the Ramsey picks.

You don't like the Chaisson pick, I get it. Just say that. We won't know for a couple of years whether or not the Chaisson pick was the best player. Even if not the best player he could have been the best option if the better player is (say) a WR and we end up with and equally good WR later in the draft.

(04-24-2020, 12:27 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 12:18 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson was the only one that kind of falls into that Issue with FO//Bad decision by FO category.  It could have been as simple as he didn't want to play with Bortles anymore but he made it clear he didn't want to play here anymore and we let him walk (with no compensation unlike the Ramsey/Ngakoue (hopefully) situation).

The 2017 D falls into TC influence...

Caldwell got here in 2013/2014?  Who on the roster at that time was worth a crap?  Mojo/Mercedes/Poz  who did we really jettison off?

Daryl Smith, he had a few good seasons for the Ravens

(04-24-2020, 12:27 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2020, 12:18 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson was the only one that kind of falls into that Issue with FO//Bad decision by FO category.  It could have been as simple as he didn't want to play with Bortles anymore but he made it clear he didn't want to play here anymore and we let him walk (with no compensation unlike the Ramsey/Ngakoue (hopefully) situation).

The 2017 D falls into TC influence...

Caldwell got here in 2013/2014?  Who on the roster at that time was worth a crap?  Mojo/Mercedes/Poz  who did we really jettison off?

Daryl Smith, he had a few good seasons for the Ravens