(10-06-2020, 07:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]3-4 defense
For the first time, I have to say, we are better equipped now to play 3-4, than we are to play 4-3. This lineup sucks as a 4-3 scheme. Put Bryan and Gotsis on as 5 techniques, Hamilton as NT, Allen and Chaisson as OLB's, Schobert and Jack as ILB's and I guess we'd have to leave the secondary the same. That's the only thing that sucks. At least I think we'd get a little pressure. We should blitz more as well.
I agree our personnel at OLB would work for a 3-4, but our interior line would get KILLED. Especially because we wouldn't have a nose tackle that could command a double team.
(10-06-2020, 07:38 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]For the first time, I have to say, we are better equipped now to play 3-4, than we are to play 4-3. This lineup sucks as a 4-3 scheme. Put Bryan and Gotsis on as 5 techniques, Hamilton as NT, Allen and Chaisson as OLB's, Schobert and Jack as ILB's and I guess we'd have to leave the secondary the same. That's the only thing that sucks. At least I think we'd get a little pressure. We should blitz more as well.
I agree our personnel at OLB would work for a 3-4, but our interior line would get KILLED. Especially because we wouldn't have a nose tackle that could command a double team.
I'd put my money on rookie Hamilton over veteran Abry Jones any day of the week. Jones would be a 3rd stringer on almost every other team in the league. He's totally inept at stopping the run and he generates no pass rush, ever.
(10-06-2020, 07:42 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:38 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]I agree our personnel at OLB would work for a 3-4, but our interior line would get KILLED. Especially because we wouldn't have a nose tackle that could command a double team.
I'd put my money on rookie Hamilton over veteran Abry Jones any day of the week. Jones would be a 3rd stringer on almost every other team in the league. He's totally inept at stopping the run and he generates no pass rush, ever.
Agreed about Jones. But don't see Hamilton getting it done at nose. You need a dominant NT to run a 3-4 or your ILB's get mangled all day on the run.
(10-06-2020, 07:44 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:42 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I'd put my money on rookie Hamilton over veteran Abry Jones any day of the week. Jones would be a 3rd stringer on almost every other team in the league. He's totally inept at stopping the run and he generates no pass rush, ever.
Agreed about Jones. But don't see Hamilton getting it done at nose. You need a dominant NT to run a 3-4 or your ILB's get mangled all day on the run.
I'm still willing to give the kid a chance. He's only been a part time player in 4 professional games. I gave up on Jones before last season.
Lol this scheme discussion reminded me that Smoot still exists and that people laughably thought he was decent because he fell into a few 5 second coverage sacks last year.
(10-06-2020, 06:36 PM)I p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest problem is the DC forces players into his scheme instead of putting the players in the best position possible to be successful. If you don't have the talents to run the scheme, you have to change but the Jags refuse to do it.
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This. Fire Wash and bring Wade Philips in to be interim DC. We have the personnel to run more 3-4 looks.
We need a Jabba the Hutt body type to plop down on the ball every play. Once we have that we need about three more linebackers to effectively run a 34, and 43 MLBs don't necessarily translate to good ILBs in a 34. That's why Poz didn't pan out in Buffalo when they made that change, so there's no guarantee we don't need more.
(10-06-2020, 11:26 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]We need a Jabba the Hutt body type to plop down on the ball every play. Once we have that we need about three more linebackers to effectively run a 34, and 43 MLBs don't necessarily translate to good ILBs in a 34. That's why Poz didn't pan out in Buffalo when they made that change, so there's no guarantee we don't need more.
Very true, but we know what we have now isn't working. That is obvious. We've got 3-4 OLB's playing 4-3 DE's and it's a dumpster fire.
(10-06-2020, 10:20 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Pro Bowler Josh Allen has 1 more sack than Chaisson.
This is as much the fault of our defensive backfield. Who is shutting any receiver down? How quickly are QB's getting the ball out, compared to other teams? Sometimes you need to dig deeper than an arbitrary stat.
We're giving up a buttload of yards passing, so it's not just that teams are opting to run on the D.
I get that our pass rush is lacking. I wasn't a fan of the pick, either. It screamed of desperation to fill a hole more than it did of finding value in a player that fit our system (do we have a system?). But there's a lot more to the story than our rush isn't getting home.
(10-06-2020, 07:47 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:44 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed about Jones. But don't see Hamilton getting it done at nose. You need a dominant NT to run a 3-4 or your ILB's get mangled all day on the run.
I'm still willing to give the kid a chance. He's only been a part time player in 4 professional games. I gave up on Jones before last season.
You need more than just one NT. Big guys like that need to be able to rotate or they won't last the whole game.
Unfortunately, we lost the only other true NT to the covid opt out.
I think the intention was to run a lot of 3-4 with Chaisson playing OLB, but Woods being out threw a wrench in that plan.
(10-07-2020, 08:07 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:47 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I'm still willing to give the kid a chance. He's only been a part time player in 4 professional games. I gave up on Jones before last season.
You need more than just one NT. Big guys like that need to be able to rotate or they won't last the whole game.
Unfortunately, we lost the only other true NT to the covid opt out.
I think the intention was to run a lot of 3-4 with Chaisson playing OLB, but Woods being out threw a wrench in that plan.
Agreed! I think that is the biggest reason why they are reluctant to play any 3-4 right now despite saying it was coming.
Jags need to try to do something different. This team is not good enough to get pressure with 4.
Stay the course and hope. This year is a weird one.
Learning a new position, I do think Chaisson starts getting better as the season goes on.
(10-07-2020, 12:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 11:26 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]We need a Jabba the Hutt body type to plop down on the ball every play. Once we have that we need about three more linebackers to effectively run a 34, and 43 MLBs don't necessarily translate to good ILBs in a 34. That's why Poz didn't pan out in Buffalo when they made that change, so there's no guarantee we don't need more.
Very true, but we know what we have now isn't working. That is obvious. We've got 3-4 OLB's playing 4-3 DE's and it's a dumpster fire.
I do love that you're all in on Hamilton playing out of position while griping about Chaisson doing it. After 5 games and coached by an idiot even.
(10-12-2020, 08:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 12:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Very true, but we know what we have now isn't working. That is obvious. We've got 3-4 OLB's playing 4-3 DE's and it's a dumpster fire.
I do love that you're all in on Hamilton playing out of position while griping about Chaisson doing it. After 5 games and coached by an idiot even.
I'm not all in on Hamilton playing 3-4 NT, but at this point, what choice do we have? We certainly suck at a 4-3 base. We need to try something new. I don't know if it will work or not. It's certainly not ideal to have Hamilton move to a 3-4 NT position, but who else do we have? Abry Jones has certainly never been a good run stuffer. How he has maintained a roster position with this team as long as he has, is beyond me. With Dontavius Russell on IR, Hamilton is the closest thing we have to a true 0 Technique.
What do you suggest? We stay the course and continue giving up a record number of points without any pressure on opposing QB's? Caldwell has screwed this team up so bad, we're just trying to suggest anything to try and make us competitive.
(10-06-2020, 07:13 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 07:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]3-4 defense
Yep, or just move him to LB because the SAM is terrible have 2 fast OLBs. The DEs are all producing the same so playing someone else won't matter much.
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I agree.
(10-12-2020, 09:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 08:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I do love that you're all in on Hamilton playing out of position while griping about Chaisson doing it. After 5 games and coached by an idiot even.
I'm not all in on Hamilton playing 3-4 NT, but at this point, what choice do we have? We certainly suck at a 4-3 base. We need to try something new. I don't know if it will work or not. It's certainly not ideal to have Hamilton move to a 3-4 NT position, but who else do we have? Abry Jones has certainly never been a good run stuffer. How he has maintained a roster position with this team as long as he has, is beyond me. With Dontavius Russell on IR, Hamilton is the closest thing we have to a true 0 Technique.
What do you suggest? We stay the course and continue giving up a record number of points without any pressure on opposing QB's? Caldwell has screwed this team up so bad, we're just trying to suggest anything to try and make us competitive.
My suggestions start at the top. Until that changes there will be no improvement.
Years ago, Ray Lewis' production went down. He complained that they didn't have a big ugly in the middle to absorb the initial blocks for him to hit the gap and make tackles. The Ravens then went out and got Haloti Ngata (6'4" 325 pounds) at NT in the 1st round of the 2006 draft. Prior to that in 1st round of the 2001 draft, the Steelers drafted Casey Hampton (6'1" 325 pounds). Meanwhile, our font office drafts people like DT Taven freaking Bryan (6'5" 190 pounds) in the 1st round.
(10-12-2020, 12:40 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Years ago, Ray Lewis' production went down. He complained that they didn't have a big ugly in the middle to absorb the initial blocks for him to hit the gap and make tackles. The Ravens then went out and got Haloti Ngata (6'4" 325 pounds) at NT in the 1st round of the 2006 draft. Prior to that in 1st round of the 2001 draft, the Steelers drafted Casey Hampton (6'1" 325 pounds). Meanwhile, our font office drafts people like DT Taven freaking Bryan (6'5" 190 pounds) in the 1st round.
Well... it's a good thing that Taven Bryan (290 lbs not 190), a 3 tech DT in a 43 isn't supposed to be a NT in a 34.
Not saying he was a good signing, or that he's good, just saying your crazy comparison is way off.