(10-05-2020, 10:32 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2020, 10:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]7 tackles and 1 sack in 4 games. Don't even really notice him in the games.
Are we misusing him or did we overvalue him?
The front office definitely overvalued him. I hated the pick when we made it and I still do. He gets hung up on blocks way too easily and lacks strength to get away from bigger OT's. He'd be much better off as a 3-4 OLB.
You absolutely nailed the analysis here! I am with you comjpletely. I didn't like the pick when we made it, I thought him comparable to Barkevious Mingo, but with better burst. The net result in his play-getting stymied by bigger Ts-is the same, and that he needs to be a 3-4 OLB to have a chance.
(10-05-2020, 11:47 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]We occasionally seem to fall prey to drafting guys in the first round based on talent and not production. Did it with Taven. Did it with Chaisson. Maybe he will develop, maybe he won't. Still too early to write him off. But always scary to draft a guy in the first round that wasn't an elite production guy in college.
I hope that's not true, but I am afraid you are right the more I think about it.
Two quotes about potential.
First from Bill parcells "Potential is French for not yet worth a damn."
I don't know who said this but "Potential gets you fired."
The problem is that he can't finish and a DE that can't finish is worthless in my book. Hopefully, he will get better if we go to a 3-4 scheme.
That’s ok we’re about to have Lawrence at QB and we’re hopefully switching to a 34.
(12-29-2020, 09:00 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2020, 08:52 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He has been better the last month or so. I think he will be greatly improved next year especially if we go to a 3-4. Chaisson gonna be good next year, starting to see glimpse
https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/klav...e-vs-bears
https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...46849?s=20
The problem is that he can't finish and a DE that can't finish is worthless in my book. Hopefully, he will get better if we go to a 3-4 scheme.
Pressures are worthless? lol, damn man I thought you knew football a little more than that. Chaisson is getting better and will be much improved next year with better players on the dline. Regardless of what type of D we run next year Chaisson will be a difference maker
(12-29-2020, 09:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2020, 09:00 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that he can't finish and a DE that can't finish is worthless in my book. Hopefully, he will get better if we go to a 3-4 scheme.
Pressures are worthless? lol, damn man I thought you knew football a little more than that. Chaisson is getting better and will be much improved next year with better players on the dline. Regardless of what type of D we run next year Chaisson will be a difference maker
I thought he was overrated coming out of college, I hated that we picked him and I don't like him now. In today's NFL, almost every QB can scramble and throw on the run. Pressures are worthless when you chase a QB out of the pocket and he still completes a pass downfield, because he can throw on the run. You gotta be able to finish him! Regardless of whether we stay in a 4-3 or go to a 3-4, I'm using one of our second round picks on an edge pass rusher. I don't trust Chaisson to be any good in 2021. I hope I'm wrong though.
(12-29-2020, 09:00 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2020, 08:52 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He has been better the last month or so. I think he will be greatly improved next year especially if we go to a 3-4. Chaisson gonna be good next year, starting to see glimpse
https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/klav...e-vs-bears
https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...46849?s=20
The problem is that he can't finish and a DE that can't finish is worthless in my book. Hopefully, he will get better if we go to a 3-4 scheme.
Lol he isn't finishing because there's very little pressure from the inside, so QBs just step up into the pocket. Get him some inside pressure help next season and the pressures will turn into finishes.
(12-29-2020, 10:16 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2020, 09:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Pressures are worthless? lol, damn man I thought you knew football a little more than that. Chaisson is getting better and will be much improved next year with better players on the dline. Regardless of what type of D we run next year Chaisson will be a difference maker
I thought he was overrated coming out of college, I hated that we picked him and I don't like him now. In today's NFL, almost every QB can scramble and throw on the run. Pressures are worthless when you chase a QB out of the pocket and he still completes a pass downfield, because he can throw on the run. You gotta be able to finish him! Regardless of whether we stay in a 4-3 or go to a 3-4, I'm using one of our second round picks on an edge pass rusher. I don't trust Chaisson to be any good in 2021. I hope I'm wrong though.
Thats what you have other dline and LBs for. You pressure the QB constantly and you will get errant throws and bad things will happen. I wasnt a fan of the pick either but there wasn't any doubt if the talent was there he was just very raw. But he has flashed like in the playoffs last year and he is starting to pick it up, its not uncommon for DEs to not have a good rookie year. Im excited about him next year and can seen him making a push. DT is a bigger need than edge rusher
(12-29-2020, 10:28 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2020, 09:00 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that he can't finish and a DE that can't finish is worthless in my book. Hopefully, he will get better if we go to a 3-4 scheme.
Lol he isn't finishing because there's very little pressure from the inside, so QBs just step up into the pocket. Get him some inside pressure help next season and the pressures will turn into finishes.
He doesn't understand how that works
Im willing to wait and see, not all rookies flash right away and when you have the offseason these rookies had, i’d hope next season we will see a significant jump with a D cordinator that can get creative with some of the athletes we have.
Pressures correlate to future sacks more than sacks correlate to future sacks, so that is an encouraging sign there. However, a 4 week sample is pretty useless. You could no doubt go look at nearly every bad player that has ever played and find a good month long stretch stretch here and there.
(12-29-2020, 10:46 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Pressures correlate to future sacks more than sacks correlate to future sacks, so that is an encouraging sign there. However, a 4 week sample is pretty useless. You could no doubt go look at nearly every bad player that has ever played and find a good month long stretch stretch here and there.
Of course it's a small sample size, but it's something to be encourage by and hopefully continue to grow on. It's definitely nice to see some activity out of him the last handful of games, considering he was all but a ghost the first 2/3s of the season.
As well as the fact that he was raw coming out and most pass rushers don't blow the doors off in their rookie year anyways.
Coaching on defense has been so abysmal this season that I'm willing to give the rook a pass and chalk it up as a learning experience.. Way too early to label him a bust.. Give him some decent coaching and see what he brings to the table..
He's always looked like a 43 LB trying to rush the QB to me. Though I'm beginning to see him add moves to his arsenal. They had him out of position but it looks like he's adapting. He'll probably work on strength and bulk this off season.
(10-05-2020, 10:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]7 tackles and 1 sack in 4 games. Don't even really notice him in the games.
Are we misusing him or did we overvalue him?
He and CJ Henderson are a sunk cost. Not worth debating. Caldwell should’ve drafted Wirfs and Jefferson, the two I pounded the table for. Fire all the yes-man scouts. What a waste.
(12-29-2020, 10:16 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2020, 09:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Pressures are worthless? lol, damn man I thought you knew football a little more than that. Chaisson is getting better and will be much improved next year with better players on the dline. Regardless of what type of D we run next year Chaisson will be a difference maker
I thought he was overrated coming out of college, I hated that we picked him and I don't like him now. In today's NFL, almost every QB can scramble and throw on the run. Pressures are worthless when you chase a QB out of the pocket and he still completes a pass downfield, because he can throw on the run. You gotta be able to finish him! Regardless of whether we stay in a 4-3 or go to a 3-4, I'm using one of our second round picks on an edge pass rusher. I don't trust Chaisson to be any good in 2021. I hope I'm wrong though.
Not necessarily directing this to you, but the entire board, on this topic. Finishing is a problem, does anyone think he finishes better if DB play improves? I guess it's a chicken or the egg question - is the problem truly the pass rush, or the coverage? I'll hang up and listen.
(12-29-2020, 09:06 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]That’s ok we’re about to have Lawrence at QB and we’re hopefully switching to a 34.
Switching to a 34 PPG offense
Maybe the dude busts... maybe he gets better... maybe he'd be better as a 34 OLB..... maybe the next staff will know how/where to use him better.
Can we just wait until he gets some more time before deciding? How many rookies picked in the 20s really make that much of an impact right away? It's a big jump to the NFL and the kid had like no training camp or OTAs.
Geez...
(12-30-2020, 11:21 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the dude busts... maybe he gets better... maybe he'd be better as a 34 OLB..... maybe the next staff will know how/where to use him better.
Can we just wait until he gets some more time before deciding? How many rookies picked in the 20s really make that much of an impact right away? It's a big jump to the NFL and the kid had like no training camp or OTAs.
Geez...
NO! FIRST ROUNDERS ARE AUTOMATIC ALL PROS OR THEY'RE A BUST!
For real though, I'm with you. This year sucked, he's showed some flashes of development late which is encouraging. Get him a new staff and see from there.
(12-30-2020, 11:26 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2020, 11:21 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the dude busts... maybe he gets better... maybe he'd be better as a 34 OLB..... maybe the next staff will know how/where to use him better.
Can we just wait until he gets some more time before deciding? How many rookies picked in the 20s really make that much of an impact right away? It's a big jump to the NFL and the kid had like no training camp or OTAs.
Geez...
NO! FIRST ROUNDERS ARE AUTOMATIC ALL PROS OR THEY'RE A BUST!
For real though, I'm with you. This year sucked, he's showed some flashes of development late which is encouraging. Get him a new staff and see from there.
I think top 5 players should be impact players. A top 5 LT should not give up a ton of sacks or have a bunch of penalties. A top 5 QB should start right away and at least keep you competitive. A top 5 CB should give up few big plays and make a few big ones as a rookie.
Top ten picks should be solid starters for the full season with a few rookie bumps along the way.
Outside of the top ten, those guys might come out hot but most likely need to adjust to the pros, imo.
Some teams get lucky late in the first (Jefferson beasted). Some teams get lucky in other rounds (Wilson in the 3rd).
But these young guys tend to need training, development, and coaching.... None of our rookies got much of any of that this year.
(12-30-2020, 11:21 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]How many rookies picked in the 20s really make that much of an impact right away?
Well, the one that the majority of the board wanted sure did.