Let’s do both.
The one thing the Jags can’t do is pull a Ryan Grigson. Luck was pretty phenomenal but they gave him a great OLine too late in his career.
(12-26-2020, 07:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ranchises/
"Those who think the Jets killed the future of their franchise by winning on Sunday and giving the Jaguars the lead in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes may want to look at how Super Bowl winners are built. It’s hardly ever by losing enough to earn the first overall pick, and using that pick on a franchise quarterback.
"In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5."
Yes, I still want to draft Trevor Lawrence, and yes, he will help us immensely. But I think we should also entertain the thought that an even better way to become a great team is to get a great General Manager. And that makes the choice of GM obviously the most important thing for this franchise to do this offseason. By far.
Is quite rare that a guy comes along that is so easily identifiable as can't miss. The last time it happened was Andrew Luck, and the last time before that the guy wasn't actually can't miss, but won Superbowls anyway (Eli Manning) and the real last time there was a real can't miss guy before Luck was Peyton Manning.
Most GM's have to make their mark by picking the QB when it's not completely obvious, and it's their ability to recognize talent when it's not so obvious it's just punching them in the face that makes their teams succeed. So, yes, the Jaguars need something more than just a warm body to go up and hand in the card for Lawrence (assuming Marrone doesn't [BLEEP] us in these last two weeks), but the next GM would at least be able to say he actually got a chance to draft an elite QB, some guys never even get that chance. Imagine being an NFL GM of a team between 2006 and 2012. Essentially no elite QB at all came out during those years, just a few pretty good ones.
2013 the GM's all showed they still are just guys that can't recognize talent staring them in the face.
With the right to draft Lawrence, a second 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and the most cap space in the league, the Jags will be able to pull in the best available GM. It’s up to Khan to correctly identify that potential GM. With Lawrence, a good coach, help on Oline & Dline, the young talented pieces already here, sunny Florida with no state tax....... this thing can get turned around very quickly and be very dangerous. Come on Khan, you can do this.
(12-26-2020, 09:39 AM)prime winner Wrote: [ -> ]With the right to draft Lawrence, a second 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and the most cap space in the league, the Jags will be able to pull in the best available GM. It’s up to Khan to correctly identify that potential GM. With Lawrence, a good coach, help on Oline & Dline, the young talented pieces already here, sunny Florida with no state tax....... this thing can get turned around very quickly and be very dangerous. Come on Khan, you can do this.
That is all very true and to the point.
The key, as you have so correctly stated, is the underlined part.
(12-26-2020, 07:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ranchises/
"Those who think the Jets killed the future of their franchise by winning on Sunday and giving the Jaguars the lead in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes may want to look at how Super Bowl winners are built. It’s hardly ever by losing enough to earn the first overall pick, and using that pick on a franchise quarterback.
"In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5."
Yes, I still want to draft Trevor Lawrence, and yes, he will help us immensely. But I think we should also entertain the thought that an even better way to become a great team is to get a great General Manager. And that makes the choice of GM obviously the most important thing for this franchise to do this offseason. By far.
I totally agree. Remember, Ryan Grigson chose Andrew Luck, but he is widely considered one of the worst GM's ever. He got the QB right, but he did absolutely nothing to surround Luck with weapons or protection along the O-Line and during that time, the Colts' defenses sucked! He essentially took a generational QB and shortened his career to the point where Luck no longer wanted to endure the punishment and retired. We not only need the QB, we need a competent GM who can recognize the needs of the team and what a new QB will need to maximize his abilities.
(12-26-2020, 11:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 07:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ranchises/
"Those who think the Jets killed the future of their franchise by winning on Sunday and giving the Jaguars the lead in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes may want to look at how Super Bowl winners are built. It’s hardly ever by losing enough to earn the first overall pick, and using that pick on a franchise quarterback.
"In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5."
Yes, I still want to draft Trevor Lawrence, and yes, he will help us immensely. But I think we should also entertain the thought that an even better way to become a great team is to get a great General Manager. And that makes the choice of GM obviously the most important thing for this franchise to do this offseason. By far.
I totally agree. Remember, Ryan Grigson chose Andrew Luck, but he is widely considered one of the worst GM's ever. He got the QB right, but he did absolutely nothing to surround Luck with weapons or protection along the O-Line and during that time, the Colts' defenses sucked! He essentially took a generational QB and shortened his career to the point where Luck no longer wanted to endure the punishment and retired. We not only need the QB, we need a competent GM who can recognize the needs of the team and what a new QB will need to maximize his abilities.
It might be happening in Cincy right now as well with Burrow. We shall see, i liked the Higgins pick though
(12-26-2020, 11:54 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I totally agree. Remember, Ryan Grigson chose Andrew Luck, but he is widely considered one of the worst GM's ever. He got the QB right, but he did absolutely nothing to surround Luck with weapons or protection along the O-Line and during that time, the Colts' defenses sucked! He essentially took a generational QB and shortened his career to the point where Luck no longer wanted to endure the punishment and retired. We not only need the QB, we need a competent GM who can recognize the needs of the team and what a new QB will need to maximize his abilities.
It might be happening in Cincy right now as well with Burrow. We shall see, i liked the Higgins pick though
All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
(12-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:54 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It might be happening in Cincy right now as well with Burrow. We shall see, i liked the Higgins pick though
All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
As they should. It was almost criminal what they subjected him to. Now he's damaged goods who will be out probably until the beginning of next season.
His protection was so bad that I wondered if it wouldn't have been prudent to just play him as back up until the following season.
(12-26-2020, 12:22 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
As they should. It was almost criminal what they subjected him to. Now he's damaged goods who will be out probably until the beginning of next season.
His protection was so bad that I wondered if it wouldn't have been prudent to just play him as back up until the following season.
He should of sat this year or most of it anyway. People like to start a QB or not just on draft position. Drafft position shouldnt determine whether you start a guy or not
Need to hit on the GM and coach tbh if Trevor is what people think he will be that is.
(12-26-2020, 12:42 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 12:22 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]As they should. It was almost criminal what they subjected him to. Now he's damaged goods who will be out probably until the beginning of next season.
His protection was so bad that I wondered if it wouldn't have been prudent to just play him as back up until the following season.
He should of sat this year or most of it anyway. People like to start a QB or not just on draft position. Drafft position shouldnt determine whether you start a guy or not
Agreed. I wouldn't play Trevor Lawrence behind our line as it stands now. While I've been pleasantly surprised by the play on the interior, our OT's have been dreadful. We gotta find a new LT and we must bring in a competent RT to compete with Taylor for the starting position. Both Robinson and Taylor have been God-awful in pass protection.
(12-26-2020, 09:25 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 07:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ranchises/
"Those who think the Jets killed the future of their franchise by winning on Sunday and giving the Jaguars the lead in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes may want to look at how Super Bowl winners are built. It’s hardly ever by losing enough to earn the first overall pick, and using that pick on a franchise quarterback.
"In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5."
Yes, I still want to draft Trevor Lawrence, and yes, he will help us immensely. But I think we should also entertain the thought that an even better way to become a great team is to get a great General Manager. And that makes the choice of GM obviously the most important thing for this franchise to do this offseason. By far.
Is quite rare that a guy comes along that is so easily identifiable as can't miss. The last time it happened was Andrew Luck, and the last time before that the guy wasn't actually can't miss, but won Superbowls anyway (Eli Manning) and the real last time there was a real can't miss guy before Luck was Peyton Manning.
Most GM's have to make their mark by picking the QB when it's not completely obvious, and it's their ability to recognize talent when it's not so obvious it's just punching them in the face that makes their teams succeed. So, yes, the Jaguars need something more than just a warm body to go up and hand in the card for Lawrence (assuming Marrone doesn't [BLEEP] us in these last two weeks), but the next GM would at least be able to say he actually got a chance to draft an elite QB, some guys never even get that chance. Imagine being an NFL GM of a team between 2006 and 2012. Essentially no elite QB at all came out during those years, just a few pretty good ones.
2013 the GM's all showed they still are just guys that can't recognize talent staring them in the face.
Burrow was a better prospect coming out of college and he only came out last draft.
You need to pump the brakes on him being a can't miss, once in a generation type talent.
(12-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:54 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It might be happening in Cincy right now as well with Burrow. We shall see, i liked the Higgins pick though
All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
Offensive line though is not about just paying a bunch of guys. It's completely about having a coaching staff with particular scheme and vision. And then having scouts/GM to target the guys who fit that style. The best teams have good offensive lines, but generally only a 1 or 2 are considered elite.
(12-26-2020, 05:17 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
Offensive line though is not about just paying a bunch of guys. It's completely about having a coaching staff with particular scheme and vision. And then having scouts/GM to target the guys who fit that style. The best teams have good offensive lines, but generally only a 1 or 2 are considered elite.
Right now, we have no elite guys on the O-Line. Norwell is good, Linder is good, Cann has improved to a serviceable level and our OT's just flat out stink! I know a lot of people hate Robinson and rightly so, but Taylor is even worse imo. At least Robinson is a better run blocker, but that could be from Norwell helping him out. A lot of Robinson's runs come from the left side.
(12-26-2020, 05:29 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 05:17 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Offensive line though is not about just paying a bunch of guys. It's completely about having a coaching staff with particular scheme and vision. And then having scouts/GM to target the guys who fit that style. The best teams have good offensive lines, but generally only a 1 or 2 are considered elite.
Right now, we have no elite guys on the O-Line. Norwell is good, Linder is good, Cann has improved to a serviceable level and our OT's just flat out stink! I know a lot of people hate Robinson and rightly so, but Taylor is even worse imo. At least Robinson is a better run blocker, but that could be from Norwell helping him out. A lot of Robinson's runs come from the left side.
I know we view the Jag's tackless as horrible, but I guarantee you at least a few teams would take every one of our starting offensive lineman, and I don't just mean really bad or injured teams. The key is that none would go to the same team, because they fit different systems and don't work together. And the QB and playbook is not helping them maximize their effectiveness. Also not having good blocking TE's is another major issue that hurts the offensive line.
A lot of this is due to coaching, schemes, etc. I'm definitely not saying they should keep all them or any particular one. Need to see what the new coaching staff looks like first.
(12-26-2020, 04:27 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 09:25 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Is quite rare that a guy comes along that is so easily identifiable as can't miss. The last time it happened was Andrew Luck, and the last time before that the guy wasn't actually can't miss, but won Superbowls anyway (Eli Manning) and the real last time there was a real can't miss guy before Luck was Peyton Manning.
Most GM's have to make their mark by picking the QB when it's not completely obvious, and it's their ability to recognize talent when it's not so obvious it's just punching them in the face that makes their teams succeed. So, yes, the Jaguars need something more than just a warm body to go up and hand in the card for Lawrence (assuming Marrone doesn't [BLEEP] us in these last two weeks), but the next GM would at least be able to say he actually got a chance to draft an elite QB, some guys never even get that chance. Imagine being an NFL GM of a team between 2006 and 2012. Essentially no elite QB at all came out during those years, just a few pretty good ones.
2013 the GM's all showed they still are just guys that can't recognize talent staring them in the face.
Burrow was a better prospect coming out of college and he only came out last draft.
You need to pump the brakes on him being a can't miss, once in a generation type talent.
Burrow was a better prospect in who's book? Your book? Kiper Jr. and McShay both said Lawrence is the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck.
(12-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:54 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It might be happening in Cincy right now as well with Burrow. We shall see, i liked the Higgins pick though
All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
To be fair, it's not as if they have completely neglected the OL.
In 2019, they drafted Jonah Williams in the first round but he got hurt. In 2018, they drafted C Billy Price in the first.
But 2015 is what really killed them. They went T in the first and 2nd round and missed on both.
We need a GM and coaches that know how to identify and develop OL to avoid what the Bengals are going through now.
(12-26-2020, 06:39 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]All my fiends are Bengals' fans and if they don't fix that O-Line, people are gonna riot up here in Ohio.
To be fair, it's not as if they have completely neglected the OL.
In 2019, they drafted Jonah Williams in the first round but he got hurt. In 2018, they drafted C Billy Price in the first.
But 2015 is what really killed them. They went T in the first and 2nd round and missed on both.
We need a GM and coaches that know how to identify and develop OL to avoid what the Bengals are going through now.
Cordy Glenn was supposed to be the LT and Williams was supposed to be the RT. Glenn started causing a lot of turmoil within the team and became a real malcontent. He felt like the team was rushing him back from a concussion and the Bengals wanted him to start at LT right away and use Williams at RT. Glenn said he wasn't ready and refused to suit up. Things then got heated and he told the team to cut him. This back and forth lasted for weeks and the Bengals were left with no choice, but to start Williams at LT, because they had no one else. Glenn was eventually cut and myself and almost all the Bengals fans realized right away, Williams needs to be moved to the right side. That is why my friends are so excited at the prospect of getting Penei Sewell. That way, Williams can be moved back to the right side, where he was originally slated to start.
The rest of their offensive selections have just been busts.
(12-26-2020, 07:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ranchises/
"Those who think the Jets killed the future of their franchise by winning on Sunday and giving the Jaguars the lead in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes may want to look at how Super Bowl winners are built. It’s hardly ever by losing enough to earn the first overall pick, and using that pick on a franchise quarterback.
"In fact, of the NFL’s eight current division leaders, none drafted their quarterback first overall. None even drafted their quarterback in the Top 5."
Yes, I still want to draft Trevor Lawrence, and yes, he will help us immensely. But I think we should also entertain the thought that an even better way to become a great team is to get a great General Manager. And that makes the choice of GM obviously the most important thing for this franchise to do this offseason. By far.
I certainly agree with where you are coming from. One player doesnt win it all on their own and you need a good 53, not 6 or 7 and the rest are bums. This is partly why ive been rooting for Minshew, we could use that good a pick on any part of the roster and that pick would be a starter. You need to build all 3 parts of the team, O, D and ST. Now it didnt look like we would get #1 so thats why i wanted to stay with Minshew but if we can get Lawrence, that is a whole different scenario.
Yes GM is a huge call we MUST get right. Then a HC and OC and DC that run systems that work with the players we have. No more square pegs in round holes. If we go Lawrence, build an O for him and around him that plays to his strengths. Thats what the GM needs to do, nothing more for me.