(01-09-2021, 01:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's just not going to work. It'll be The Landing except you won't be able to walk from there to Friendship Fountain anymore.
Not an attack on you at all but, this fatalistic attitude about downtown is part of the problem.
People have resigned themselves from it and won't even consider patronizing new businesses that actually do open there.
A brightly lit hub of attraction downtown would draw people like moths to a flame. It will do so for me, for sure.
(01-09-2021, 01:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Not an attack on you at all but, this fatalistic attitude about downtown is part of the problem.
People have resigned themselves from it and won't even consider patronizing new businesses that actually do open there.
A brightly lit hub of attraction downtown would draw people like moths to a flame. It will do so for me, for sure.
A large complaint I have seen from people is that it isn't going to be a brightly lit hub of attraction, it's more like a night light bulb.
(01-09-2021, 01:50 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]A brightly lit hub of attraction downtown would draw people like moths to a flame. It will do so for me, for sure.
A large complaint I have seen from people is that it isn't going to be a brightly lit hub of attraction, it's more like a night light bulb.
The renderings I've seen show it will be pretty spectacular. Hopefully it doesn't erode in size and brilliance as the process moves forward.
(01-09-2021, 01:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's just not going to work. It'll be The Landing except you won't be able to walk from there to Friendship Fountain anymore.
Not an attack on you at all but, this fatalistic attitude about downtown is part of the problem.
People have resigned themselves from it and won't even consider patronizing new businesses that actually do open there.
I've posted about this before.
My attitude is not at all fatalistic.
There are huge opportunities to redevelop downtown.
La Villa and Springfield could become safe nightlife districts with as little investment as some free surface parking lots and constant police presence. pick a couple of roads, and close them to cars every Friday and Saturday night, voila you have a bar district safe for pedestrians. Downtown workers can walk there after they get off work. Keep that going for a while, bars, coffee houses, tapa bars, and boutique movie theaters will come.
Now you can try that a lot J as well. But downtown workers can't walk there, and anyone trying to build new permanent structures around that area is going to have to do a whole lot of environmental remediation that would not be needed in LaVilla or Springfield.
(01-09-2021, 01:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's just not going to work. It'll be The Landing except you won't be able to walk from there to Friendship Fountain anymore.
Not an attack on you at all but, this fatalistic attitude about downtown is part of the problem.
People have resigned themselves from it and won't even consider patronizing new businesses that actually do open there.
It's sad, I work just a few miles from the Hart bridge, if there were something worth going to in the middle of the day just over it I'd definitely patronize it. I look forward to a time when there is a reason to cross the bridge every now and then.
(01-09-2021, 01:55 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:50 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]A large complaint I have seen from people is that it isn't going to be a brightly lit hub of attraction, it's more like a night light bulb.
The renderings I've seen show it will be pretty spectacular. Hopefully it doesn't erode in size and brilliance as the process moves forward.
The renderings look nice, but very cookie cutter IMO. If the renderings vs results turn out to be like the renderings of the practice facility/daily's place renderings vs results then we're probably just looking at ho hum cookie cutter.
(01-09-2021, 12:13 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2021, 05:24 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeh agreed. This will help downtown big time.
Just curious how you think this will help downtown big time outside of game day experience and FL/GA week?
What will lot J do to attract the 30 year Jacksonville resident on a random Saturday night in March?
At the end of the day, downtown needs people living there to support and encourage retail and restaurants.
(01-09-2021, 01:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 01:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Not an attack on you at all but, this fatalistic attitude about downtown is part of the problem.
People have resigned themselves from it and won't even consider patronizing new businesses that actually do open there.
A brightly lit hub of attraction downtown would draw people like moths to a flame. It will do so for me, for sure.
What businesses would you leave your house for? It has to be unique things that you don't have near your house. Unique things cost money, so it automatically cuts the traffic. No one is going to go there for chain stores after the new factor is gone.
So the younger trendy people will love it, but they have no where to live nearby and no easy way to get there. They can't afford to live in the condos and still have money to spend at the trendy unique stores.
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(01-09-2021, 12:13 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2021, 05:24 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeh agreed. This will help downtown big time.
Just curious how you think this will help downtown big time outside of game day experience and FL/GA week?
What will lot J do to attract the 30 year Jacksonville resident on a random Saturday night in March?
At the end of the day, downtown needs people living there to support and encourage retail and restaurants.
There are people living there, they just need more population density to be self-sustaining. I saw an article awhile back about comparative downtown population densities between Jax and Orlando, New Orleans, Charlotte and a couple other cities. We obviously were way behind but not insurmountably so. I think Shad is just trying to get out in front of it, assuming that's where we're headed.
(01-09-2021, 03:20 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 02:51 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]What businesses would you leave your house for? It has to be unique things that you don't have near your house. Unique things cost money, so it automatically cuts the traffic. No one is going to go there for chain stores after the new factor is gone.
So the younger trendy people will love it, but they have no where to live nearby and no easy way to get there. They can't afford to live in the condos and still have money to spend at the trendy unique stores.
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Well, okayyy.
![[Image: eeyore.jpg?w=690]](https://urtheinspiration.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/eeyore.jpg?w=690)
Haha. I would want it to work, but there isn't housing or transportation to support it. There isn't enough events to support a bunch of bars and transportation is the problem as you have to drive. Shopping could work but unless they are unique stores no one will go and unique prices people out. Same thing with restaurants.
You have to have housing and transportation for this to work other than a great place to hang out before and after a football game or whatever at daily's.
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There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
(01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
That's very good news. I hope Lot J doesn't steal some of their traffic, but I don't think it will.
Orlando has two publix stores near downtown.
You'll know Jacksonville has turned the corner when they get a high quality grocery store in or near downtown.
(01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
You mean like, on purpose?
WingerDinger
(01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
You mean like, on purpose?
It was my sister's boyfriend's suggestion. It was on a Saturday and he said he wanted to take us somewhere to surprise us. I was surprised. The Springfield i remember was filled with abandoned buildings, weeds and garbage. Not saying it's come all the way back, but you can tell the ball is rolling. Reminded me of Little Five Points in Atlanta.
(01-09-2021, 05:34 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]WingerDinger
(01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
You mean like, on purpose?
It was my sister's boyfriend's suggestion. It was on a Saturday and he said he wanted to take us somewhere to surprise us. I was surprised. The Springfield i remember was filled with abandoned buildings, weeds and garbage. Not saying it's come all the way back, but you can tell the ball is rolling. Reminded me of Little Five Points in Atlanta.
I worked at the VA there when it was on Boulevard for years.. I'll admit, I haven't been down that way in a while, but if I ever wanted a nice big sack of crack, Springfield was happenin..
(01-09-2021, 05:34 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]WingerDinger
(01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
You mean like, on purpose?
It was my sister's boyfriend's suggestion. It was on a Saturday and he said he wanted to take us somewhere to surprise us. I was surprised. The Springfield i remember was filled with abandoned buildings, weeds and garbage. Not saying it's come all the way back, but you can tell the ball is rolling. Reminded me of Little Five Points in Atlanta.
Yeah we go there all the time (or did pre-pandemic). I try to educate people about the area's rebirth but there's still a prejudice about it that harkens back to the early 90s. That and the area called the elbow are way underrated. Riverside is coming up too although that's not technically "downtown".
(01-09-2021, 02:51 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 12:13 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious how you think this will help downtown big time outside of game day experience and FL/GA week?
What will lot J do to attract the 30 year Jacksonville resident on a random Saturday night in March?
At the end of the day, downtown needs people living there to support and encourage retail and restaurants.
(01-09-2021, 01:47 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]A brightly lit hub of attraction downtown would draw people like moths to a flame. It will do so for me, for sure.
What businesses would you leave your house for? It has to be unique things that you don't have near your house. Unique things cost money, so it automatically cuts the traffic. No one is going to go there for chain stores after the new factor is gone.
So the younger trendy people will love it, but they have no where to live nearby and no easy way to get there. They can't afford to live in the condos and still have money to spend at the trendy unique stores.
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Yeah, that's why I was saying it's success will depend on people living there. Nobody wants to live there currently
I was ashamed to take out of towners down there during the 2019 FL GA game. It's a real black eye on the city.
A number of developments in the "Brooklyn" section between LaVilla and Riverside (along with Riverside and 5 points themselves) provide some steady clientele to downtown bars/restaurants/venues now - and there are two new residential developments in the works in Brooklyn plus the condo high rise just over the main st. bridge on the River City Brewing grounds.
There are people nearby that will patronize, but it will take folks from the suburbs contributing as well to really make it vital.
(01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
Lot J is going to have a couple of apartment buildings too.
(01-09-2021, 08:13 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2021, 04:42 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of residential projects under construction or in the pipeline downtown, Apartments, mostly. On an unrelated note, I was in Springfield recently and I was pleasantly surprised - a lot of bars, breweries and shops.
Lot J is going to have a couple of apartment buildings too.
Likely priced out if the range of the young people they need to target.