(01-13-2021, 03:42 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I love tailgating in Lot J. That said, I understand the business perspective of the development.
Reggie Gaffney (city council) was on 1010xl and stated the vote is not dead as he is attempting to round up another Yes vote for a subsequent meeting, hopefully in a month or two. He stated a few of the No voters may be somewhat regretful.
All he needs to do is call a photographer and have them ready to go, then call Joyce Morgan and tell her that she can do a drive-by at the ground breaking. That'll sway her vote.
To say this is a minor deal is naive.
Prior to the London deal, the Jags were the least valuable team in the league in 2011 even behind the Raiders who played in a decrepit dump. Only that was enough to lift us off the bottom. We still rank very low in attendance, we're a small tv market, some of the lowest ticket prices in the league. We were a pandemic away from a second London game.
This was the leveller for them. They might pay lip service to other projects and renovations, but they just spent 4-5 years of planning and negotations to get rejected. I can hardly believe they are willing to do that again. If anything I expect them to get even more aggressive in their demands r.e. stadium renovations, development etc, almost to the point that they are unrealistic where the city can't meet these and this gives them their foot out of the door. The met park deal is even more problematic than Lot J given the environmental issues.
This team is gone in a decade IMO, and unlike other cities we have nothing else, we aren't getting a baseball or a basketball team or even an NHL or MLS. We could also have a world class waterfront, but we don't and won't . Being honest, Downtown Jacksonville is a depressing [BLEEP]. No less than we deserve though, the message actively was that the citizens don't want this. Well don't be surprised when your small market team leaves either.....
If they don't agree to do something on the stadium, lot J, or shipyard, this team will no longer be in Jacksonville within the next 5 years. I can't speak on the city like a lot here can; because I don't live there. But we all know how close this team is to moving. Or at the very least, intrigued on moving. For how much hard work it was getting the team there, it would be a complete shame if the team were to leave. And most times, it's when the city and team don't agree on things financially when this happens. I hope they can get something going; mainly on the stadium. And then if we can begin winning and become relevant, the talk of moving will be pushed to the way side. But these failed discussions to make the downtown area more hospitable and beneficial for the team is not good and spell doom for our team unless things change and soon.
The issue with everyone saying the stadium renovation should have been first priority anyways, is that the city will now use the excuse that there aren't other things around the stadium for the Jax community to justify saying no to using public money on a stadium.
Again, if they actually want to develop downtown, you have to work with the people who will work you. There aren't any non-Jags major developers, companies, billionaires looking to develop Downtown Jax. If the whole issue is it a sweetheart deal or Curry, then get all this done behind the scenes.
As soon as you vote it down publicly, you bruise egos and start down paths where you have will have no options.
I swear. I saw all this same stuff as a teenager in Houston with the Oilers. True Adams was a bigger tool than Khan, but this stuff goes bad quickly. Then people get into their camp, don't want to be look weak being the first to move off their stance.
This isn't surprising coming from this city...
Thought we had a decent chance at moving forward with this city and its positive developments - but nope, this disappointment never fails here.
See. You all know we cant have nice things. Whatever were you thinking.
Already other cities are lining up .... St Louis, san Antonio ....Thanks City Commisioners
(01-13-2021, 07:36 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]The issue with everyone saying the stadium renovation should have been first priority anyways, is that the city will now use the excuse that there aren't other things around the stadium for the Jax community to justify saying no to using public money on a stadium.
Doing lot J before the stadium would have made lot J a massive weight around the neck of the city in negotiations. A heavily taxpayer funded development that is dependent on NFL games being played next door is quite a bargaining chip for Shad and Lamping.
"Give us (yet another) preferable deal with the stadium/reno or we walk and lot J loses most of its relevance but none of its price tag"
(01-13-2021, 09:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-13-2021, 07:36 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]The issue with everyone saying the stadium renovation should have been first priority anyways, is that the city will now use the excuse that there aren't other things around the stadium for the Jax community to justify saying no to using public money on a stadium.
Doing lot J before the stadium would have made lot J a massive weight around the neck of the city in negotiations. A heavily taxpayer funded development that is dependent on NFL games being played next door is quite a bargaining chip for Shad and Lamping.
"Give us (yet another) preferable deal with the stadium/reno or we walk and lot J loses most of its relevance but none of its price tag"
I'd argue that is the same point that I'm making. Even with the Jags Lot J and downtown redevelopment only works if there is stuff to do year round and city commits to downtown.
If the city is not interested in that or think that is not reasonably possible, then of course Lot J doesn't make sense for the city. But then they shouldn't have made the Jags go through this process and end up with egg on their face. They should have told Shad, let's try develop another part of the city and we and work towards putting a new stadium there instead.
(01-13-2021, 09:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-13-2021, 07:36 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]The issue with everyone saying the stadium renovation should have been first priority anyways, is that the city will now use the excuse that there aren't other things around the stadium for the Jax community to justify saying no to using public money on a stadium.
Doing lot J before the stadium would have made lot J a massive weight around the neck of the city in negotiations. A heavily taxpayer funded development that is dependent on NFL games being played next door is quite a bargaining chip for Shad and Lamping.
"Give us (yet another) preferable deal with the stadium/reno or we walk and lot J loses most of its relevance but none of its price tag"
Agree, rejecting lot J the way it was being presented currently was the right call. We just did major renovations to the stadium several years ago. We need protection if we are going in on lot j.
The
(01-14-2021, 01:17 AM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-13-2021, 09:08 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Doing lot J before the stadium would have made lot J a massive weight around the neck of the city in negotiations. A heavily taxpayer funded development that is dependent on NFL games being played next door is quite a bargaining chip for Shad and Lamping.
"Give us (yet another) preferable deal with the stadium/reno or we walk and lot J loses most of its relevance but none of its price tag"
Agree, rejecting lot J the way it was being presented currently was the right call. We just did major renovations to the stadium several years ago. We need protection if we are going in on lot j.
I agree except for the bold. I know the video boards, locker rooms, club section layout, pool, dog park, and daily’s place cost quite a bit. But to me those were all bandaids that may look nice but ultimately don’t solve the main problems with our stadium. They seem more like small touch ups that will make things look a little better and make people forget how bad we need a stadium for a season or two, but quickly wear off and the problem remains.
It’s like putting a ton of touch paint around a house to get you through the holidays when you know you will have to completely repaint everything when the family leaves.
^^ oddly specific but that’s what I’m actually having to do at my house LMBO
If TL and the new FO bring as much success, excitement and fan support as we hope, a stadium upgrade and Lot J can be revisited with the city having a little more leverage. Winning solves everything.
(01-14-2021, 07:58 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]If TL and the new FO bring as much success, excitement and fan support as we hope, a stadium upgrade and Lot J can be revisited with the city having a little more leverage. Winning solves everything.
Lawrence is already having an impact for the team with an increase in season ticket sales. Hopefully they nail it with the GM and coaching hires. But ultimately it is winning that will secure the team here in Jacksonville, a new stadium deal, and whatever else the team wants. If the team falls flat after all of this, they'll be gone by the time that lease is up.
(01-14-2021, 08:44 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2021, 07:58 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]If TL and the new FO bring as much success, excitement and fan support as we hope, a stadium upgrade and Lot J can be revisited with the city having a little more leverage. Winning solves everything.
Lawrence is already having an impact for the team with an increase in season ticket sales. Hopefully they nail it with the GM and coaching hires. But ultimately it is winning that will secure the team here in Jacksonville, a new stadium deal, and whatever else the team wants. If the team falls flat after all of this, they'll be gone by the time that lease is up.
If the team falls flat after this, they'll probably be escorted out of town. This is a reset and rebuild opportunity that most teams don't see in decades.
I just hope when votes for the Shipyards and the stadium come up in the future, that the council members take into account how hard the city worked to get an NFL franchise here. I also hope that when such vote occurs, Curry is no longer the mayor. He's been a disaster for the city, between Lot J, JEA, and the Landing.
Response to my email to him concerning his vote.
Thank you for your email. While you disagree with my Lot J vote, I truly believe my vote on that particular deal was in the best interests of the entire city. That is my sworn duty. However, all is not lost. I have reached out to the Jaguars organization and will be meeting with Mr. Lamping to see if something more balanced can be negotiated as well as to begin a conversation on stadium improvements. We all together as a community should be involved and move ahead together. That is when we are at our best. Sincerely and respectfully, Matt Carlucci
(01-14-2021, 11:39 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Response to my email to him concerning his vote.
Thank you for your email. While you disagree with my Lot J vote, I truly believe my vote on that particular deal was in the best interests of the entire city. That is my sworn duty. However, all is not lost. I have reached out to the Jaguars organization and will be meeting with Mr. Lamping to see if something more balanced can be negotiated as well as to begin a conversation on stadium improvements. We all together as a community should be involved and move ahead together. That is when we are at our best. Sincerely and respectfully, Matt Carlucci
Good to see. It's not like the book was closed on Lot J.
(01-14-2021, 12:01 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2021, 11:39 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Response to my email to him concerning his vote.
Thank you for your email. While you disagree with my Lot J vote, I truly believe my vote on that particular deal was in the best interests of the entire city. That is my sworn duty. However, all is not lost. I have reached out to the Jaguars organization and will be meeting with Mr. Lamping to see if something more balanced can be negotiated as well as to begin a conversation on stadium improvements. We all together as a community should be involved and move ahead together. That is when we are at our best. Sincerely and respectfully, Matt Carlucci
Good to see. It's not like the book was closed on Lot J.
It would be fantastic if they could come to an agreement on lot J, stadium improvements AND a lease extension. Probably I'm dreaming but it would be nice.
(01-14-2021, 01:24 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2021, 12:01 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Good to see. It's not like the book was closed on Lot J.
It would be fantastic if they could come to an agreement on lot J, stadium improvements AND a lease extension. Probably I'm dreaming but it would be nice.
I doubt any lease extension occurs until a complete stadium redo or new stadium deal is announced.
I am hoping that both the city and Khan can ultimately come to some agreement on Lot J. It's a sad downtown, that needs development...but does represent a nice opportunity for group(s) to develop. It really could be a "win-win" for all parties if structured properly.