(04-30-2021, 03:07 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 12:36 AM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]Barmore is still available to start day 2, this is incredible hope UM and TB take advantage
No way,
there's a reason why teams didn't take him. I don't know what it is but I don't want him.
If you don't want him because other teams didn't take him, that would eliminate every other remaining player in the draft.
(04-30-2021, 06:39 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 05:58 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So if the team takes Barmore at 33 and takes OL at 45, would that make you okay with the Etienne pick at 25? Conversely, if the team went after, say Ojulari at 33 and Moore at 45, would you NOT be okay with Etienne at 25?
If, IF I thought the O-line was adequate, I'd feel a lot better about the Etienne pick. He's definitely a talent. I will have no problem taking joy watching him run. But the whole franchise is wrapped up in #16. He must be protected at all costs. We have to come out of these first 4 picks with an OT or the front office didn't do their jobs.
Urban Meyer has openly said that he likes the O-line. He feels like he can work with talent available. We are all assuming, based on past performance, that the sum of the O-line is bad. What if the coaches got into the film and saw obvious flaws in the previous scheme and/or use of players and knew that they had a lot more to work with than everyone else assumes?
I'm not thrilled with the Etienne pick because I thought we have some needs, especially on defense that could be addressed. As luck would have it, a lot of those guys are still available.
The main point is... If you truly believe the previous coaches and talent evaluators were that had at their jobs, there is a chance that they just didn't know how to use our coach the talent they had to get the best of of them. Maybe Urbs and his staff see what we can't, talent hidden by bad coaching.
(04-30-2021, 06:39 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 05:58 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So if the team takes Barmore at 33 and takes OL at 45, would that make you okay with the Etienne pick at 25? Conversely, if the team went after, say Ojulari at 33 and Moore at 45, would you NOT be okay with Etienne at 25?
If, IF I thought the O-line was adequate, I'd feel a lot better about the Etienne pick. He's definitely a talent. I will have no problem taking joy watching him run. But the whole franchise is wrapped up in #16. He must be protected at all costs. We have to come out of these first 4 picks with an OT or the front office didn't do their jobs.
One way to protect the QB is to get the ball out of his hands. Etienne will catch a lot of passes, like he did in college, like Christian McCaffrey, which is the player I compare him to. Etienne will help enable TL to get rid of the ball.
(04-30-2021, 05:58 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 12:36 AM)Dewboy01 Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that I have absolutely no faith that we will take him. I'd be fine taking Barmore at 33 and targeting Oline at 45. While Jenkins will surely be gone by then, maybe we can still get Eichenberg, Radunz or Cosmi. I'd even be good looking at interior Oline - Creed Humphrey, Quinn Meinherz or Landon Dickerson.
So if the team takes Barmore at 33 and takes OL at 45, would that make you okay with the Etienne pick at 25? Conversely, if the team went after, say Ojulari at 33 and Moore at 45, would you NOT be okay with Etienne at 25?
After sleeping on it, I don't dislike the Etienne pick as much as I did when I first heard his name called (I'm picturing both him and Robinson on the field at the same time along with Chark, Jones and Shenault). But I would have preferred Barmore/Jenkins at 25 & 33 and then went with Holland at safety at 45 (assuming Moehrig is gone). Then I'd have targeted Gainwell or Felton as the change of pace RB. I believe that would have given us 4 starters at positions of need with our first 4 picks and another weapon out of the backfield - but I'm not the GM and I don't get paid to make those decisions lol
(04-30-2021, 06:57 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 03:07 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]No way,
there's a reason why teams didn't take him. I don't know what it is but I don't want him.
If you don't want him because other teams didn't take him, that would eliminate every other remaining player in the draft.
Yes, but it's not that easy. I don't want him because he's falling and I don't know why so I assume it's because there's something teams know. Remember that Jags took Etienne instead when they had the chance.
If you tell me that he probably is a second round talent then it would be different but that's not what I've understood he was seen as.
(04-30-2021, 07:27 AM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 06:39 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]If, IF I thought the O-line was adequate, I'd feel a lot better about the Etienne pick. He's definitely a talent. I will have no problem taking joy watching him run. But the whole franchise is wrapped up in #16. He must be protected at all costs. We have to come out of these first 4 picks with an OT or the front office didn't do their jobs.
Urban Meyer has openly said that he likes the O-line. He feels like he can work with talent available. We are all assuming, based on past performance, that the sum of the O-line is bad. What if the coaches got into the film and saw obvious flaws in the previous scheme and/or use of players and knew that they had a lot more to work with than everyone else assumes?
I'm not thrilled with the Etienne pick because I thought we have some needs, especially on defense that could be addressed. As luck would have it, a lot of those guys are still available.
The main point is... If you truly believe the previous coaches and talent evaluators were that had at their jobs, there is a chance that they just didn't know how to use our coach the talent they had to get the best of of them. Maybe Urbs and his staff see what we can't, talent hidden by bad coaching.
The big hole in this theory is that the Jaguars retained their offensive line coach. If Meyer believed our offensive line was secretly great but under-performed due to terrible coaching, why would he bring the same offensive line coach back to coach them again?!?! That makes no sense.
(04-30-2021, 01:35 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 07:27 AM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ]Urban Meyer has openly said that he likes the O-line. He feels like he can work with talent available. We are all assuming, based on past performance, that the sum of the O-line is bad. What if the coaches got into the film and saw obvious flaws in the previous scheme and/or use of players and knew that they had a lot more to work with than everyone else assumes?
I'm not thrilled with the Etienne pick because I thought we have some needs, especially on defense that could be addressed. As luck would have it, a lot of those guys are still available.
The main point is... If you truly believe the previous coaches and talent evaluators were that had at their jobs, there is a chance that they just didn't know how to use our coach the talent they had to get the best of of them. Maybe Urbs and his staff see what we can't, talent hidden by bad coaching.
The big hole in this theory is that the Jaguars retained their offensive line coach. If Meyer believed our offensive line was secretly great but under-performed due to terrible coaching, why would he bring the same offensive line coach back to coach them again?!?! That makes no sense.
Preach on brother. Those are facts.
(04-30-2021, 07:48 AM)Dewboy01 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 05:58 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So if the team takes Barmore at 33 and takes OL at 45, would that make you okay with the Etienne pick at 25? Conversely, if the team went after, say Ojulari at 33 and Moore at 45, would you NOT be okay with Etienne at 25?
After sleeping on it, I don't dislike the Etienne pick as much as I did when I first heard his name called (I'm picturing both him and Robinson on the field at the same time along with Chark, Jones and Shenault). But I would have preferred Barmore/Jenkins at 25 & 33 and then went with Holland at safety at 45 (assuming Moehrig is gone). Then I'd have targeted Gainwell or Felton as the change of pace RB. I believe that would have given us 4 starters at positions of need with our first 4 picks and another weapon out of the backfield - but I'm not the GM and I don't get paid to make those decisions lol
How dare they make such decisions without first consulting this message board?!?
.gif "Laughing")
I may not agree with everything they do...but I hope they get these picks right whether I agree with them at the time or not.
(04-30-2021, 12:00 AM)Ordar Wrote: [ -> ]I personally don’t mind the Etienne pick for several reasons (TL familiarity, impact player etc), I feel like the Oline is going to surprise people this year, and will look much better with TL behind it.
There is going to be one of Baramore, Jenkins, Moehrig there at 33. Obviously they love Etienne and didn’t think he’d make 33, but thought one of those would be
absolutely bro. this comment is spot on especially the TL familiarity piece... that could prove to be invaluable.
(04-30-2021, 01:35 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 07:27 AM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ]Urban Meyer has openly said that he likes the O-line. He feels like he can work with talent available. We are all assuming, based on past performance, that the sum of the O-line is bad. What if the coaches got into the film and saw obvious flaws in the previous scheme and/or use of players and knew that they had a lot more to work with than everyone else assumes?
I'm not thrilled with the Etienne pick because I thought we have some needs, especially on defense that could be addressed. As luck would have it, a lot of those guys are still available.
The main point is... If you truly believe the previous coaches and talent evaluators were that had at their jobs, there is a chance that they just didn't know how to use our coach the talent they had to get the best of of them. Maybe Urbs and his staff see what we can't, talent hidden by bad coaching.
The big hole in this theory is that the Jaguars retained their offensive line coach. If Meyer believed our offensive line was secretly great but under-performed due to terrible coaching, why would he bring the same offensive line coach back to coach them again?!?! That makes no sense.
Though I understand your thoughts, let me offer this....
Doug Marrone was a former offensive lineman, and made his coaching bones as an OL coach. My thoughts are that the scheme and fits of our players were handed down to an offensive line coach who was paid to implement the system handed to him by his boss. I think the failings of our offensive line fall more on Marrone than we know.
I most definitely could be wrong, there are scads of people who know much more about this than I. But, I tend to trust (sometimes too much) the professionals who know exactly what they are looking at and when they state that players aren't as bad as previous records may indicate.
As NH3 would say....
"Time will tell"
(04-30-2021, 04:37 PM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2021, 01:35 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]The big hole in this theory is that the Jaguars retained their offensive line coach. If Meyer believed our offensive line was secretly great but under-performed due to terrible coaching, why would he bring the same offensive line coach back to coach them again?!?! That makes no sense.
Though I understand your thoughts, let me offer this....
Doug Marrone was a former offensive lineman, and made his coaching bones as an OL coach. My thoughts are that the scheme and fits of our players were handed down to an offensive line coach who was paid to implement the system handed to him by his boss. I think the failings of our offensive line fall more on Marrone than we know.
I most definitely could be wrong, there are scads of people who know much more about this than I. But, I tend to trust (sometimes too much) the professionals who know exactly what they are looking at and when they state that players aren't as bad as previous records may indicate.
As NH3 would say....
"Time will tell"
Possibly.
There may also be a difference attributable to the strength and conditioning programs.
For instance, UM directed DJ Chark to add weight. Chark has put on ten pounds and is faster than he was before the weight gain.
Maybe they can get similar results with the OL. Maybe Taylor will be told to drop some weight to improve his foot quickness.