(10-08-2021, 11:26 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 11:24 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Marty makes a very valid point, there’s no way PFF can keep up with every player on every play.
But, but, it was on the internet with football in the title.
Its possible but it depends on how many people they have working for them
(10-08-2021, 10:22 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]PFF is a joke man. It's a way to sell BS to unknowing fans who want to think they know what's going on and need a reference to prop up players they like when PFF happens to give em a green rating.
If you think Wingard is the 9th best safety in the league.... Yikes
He definitely isn't the 9th best safety in the league but he is much better than the last few years by a large margin. He's had a few missed tackles but has also made some nice ones by the line if scrimmage. He's made some nice plays out there and hasn't been a liability out there even when he hasn't dropped back deep
Yeah but we need better than not terrible.
We need a playmaker.
He ain't it. And it's sad that this team is so bad that we're looking for silver linings in something like PFFs ranking of Wingard
(10-08-2021, 12:50 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Wingard said for you all to shut your face..
Unfortunately nobody can hear him because the ball is on the 50 yard line and he's lined up at the 10 yard line to ensure nobody can get behind him.
(10-08-2021, 02:21 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 11:26 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Its possible but it depends on how many people they have working for them
He definitely isn't the 9th best safety in the league but he is much better than the last few years by a large margin. He's had a few missed tackles but has also made some nice ones by the line if scrimmage. He's made some nice plays out there and hasn't been a liability out there even when he hasn't dropped back deep
Yeah but we need better than not terrible.
We need a playmaker.
He ain't it. And it's sad that this team is so bad that we're looking for silver linings in something like PFFs ranking of Wingard
For sure, we need playmakers at every position. It would be nice to replace some of these guys that are a liability though and up to this point Wingard hasnt been that and has made some nice plays. Safety had probably been our best position group on defense up to this point, dline has played nice as well
This forum is a sad, sad place these days.
(10-08-2021, 03:50 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 02:21 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah but we need better than not terrible.
We need a playmaker.
He ain't it. And it's sad that this team is so bad that we're looking for silver linings in something like PFFs ranking of Wingard
For sure, we need playmakers at every position. It would be nice to replace some of these guys that are a liability though and up to this point Wingard hasnt been that and has made some nice plays. Safety had probably been our best position group on defense up to this point, dline has played nice as well
When you have to play a safety 30 yards off the ball so that he doesn't get beat deep, he's a [BLEEP] liability.
Don't kid yourself.
(10-08-2021, 04:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 03:50 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For sure, we need playmakers at every position. It would be nice to replace some of these guys that are a liability though and up to this point Wingard hasnt been that and has made some nice plays. Safety had probably been our best position group on defense up to this point, dline has played nice as well
When you have to play a safety 30 yards off the ball so that he doesn't get beat deep, he's a [BLEEP] liability.
Don't kid yourself.
Compound that with him not having enough speed to get to where he needs to be because of how far back he's playing and he's not making plays for you - unless the ball is wildly overthrown like it was in the Cards game.
This defense needs playmakers but you won't be creating any turnovers if you have a safety playing like a hovering parent at an elementary school fieldtrip.
(10-08-2021, 04:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 03:50 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]For sure, we need playmakers at every position. It would be nice to replace some of these guys that are a liability though and up to this point Wingard hasnt been that and has made some nice plays. Safety had probably been our best position group on defense up to this point, dline has played nice as well
When you have to play a safety 30 yards off the ball so that he doesn't get beat deep, he's a [BLEEP] liability.
Don't kid yourself.
I think that says more about our corners than anything, Cullen afraid they will get beat deep. He must be lightning fast though if he plays 30 yards deep every play because I've seen him make some nice tackles around the line of scrimmage and has missed a few as well. I'm sure where hes lined up is by design because if he was just playing where he wanted to he would be benched by now
(10-08-2021, 04:45 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 04:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]When you have to play a safety 30 yards off the ball so that he doesn't get beat deep, he's a [BLEEP] liability.
Don't kid yourself.
I think that says more about our corners than anything, Cullen afraid they will get beat deep. He must be lightning fast though if he plays 30 yards deep every play because I've seen him make some nice tackles around the line of scrimmage and has missed a few as well. I'm sure where hes lined up is by design because if he was just playing where he wanted to he would be benched by now
Dude.
Have you rewatched any of the games or do you just watch them on Sundays? There seems to be a lot happening in the secondary that you aren't seeing.
He's made a few plays at the LOS because he sometimes plays SS (in the box) and sometimes plays FS and has man coverage, one side of the field, or the dreaded single high.
Yes he's made a couple of decent plays in the box, but that isn't good enough in this scheme.
In this scheme they disguise the looks and interchange the safety roles and when Wingard gets assigned coverage duty he's a liability, plain and simple.
(10-08-2021, 04:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 04:45 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I think that says more about our corners than anything, Cullen afraid they will get beat deep. He must be lightning fast though if he plays 30 yards deep every play because I've seen him make some nice tackles around the line of scrimmage and has missed a few as well. I'm sure where hes lined up is by design because if he was just playing where he wanted to he would be benched by now
Dude.
Have you rewatched any of the games or do you just watch them on Sundays? There seems to be a lot happening in the secondary that you aren't seeing.
He's made a few plays at the LOS because he sometimes plays SS (in the box) and sometimes plays FS and has man coverage, one side of the field, or the dreaded single high.
Yes he's made a couple of decent plays in the box, but that isn't good enough in this scheme.
In this scheme they disguise the looks and interchange the safety roles and when Wingard gets assigned coverage duty he's a liability, plain and simple.
Thats my point, its Cullens scheme. What do you mean by assigned coverage duty? Man up on a WR/TE? or you saying hes a liability in zone as well. So far this season i think he is down the list as a liabilty on the D.
(10-08-2021, 04:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 04:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Dude.
Have you rewatched any of the games or do you just watch them on Sundays? There seems to be a lot happening in the secondary that you aren't seeing.
He's made a few plays at the LOS because he sometimes plays SS (in the box) and sometimes plays FS and has man coverage, one side of the field, or the dreaded single high.
Yes he's made a couple of decent plays in the box, but that isn't good enough in this scheme.
In this scheme they disguise the looks and interchange the safety roles and when Wingard gets assigned coverage duty he's a liability, plain and simple.
Thats my point, its Cullens scheme. What do you mean by assigned coverage duty? Man up on a WR/TE? or you saying hes a liability in zone as well. So far this season i think he is down the list as a liabilty on the D.
Zone or man. He's a liability in coverage.
Nothing wrong with Cullen's scheme if you've got two safeties who can cover well enough that you don't have to put one in "prevent" 30 yards back while the rest of the secondary is playing "cover 1 man" or "cover 3 zone" in normal positional formation.
Not getting Cisco on the field over this guy seems similar to this staff not understanding that James Robinson was available to take pressure off of Lawrence for two weeks. Only we're going on week 5.
(10-08-2021, 03:54 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]This forum is a sad, sad place these days.
I"m thinking the same thing. It is such a cesspool. It's hard to argue he has been our best player on defense this season. PFF is respected by many coaches and experts. Instead of giving Wingard some credit they are too busy whining about PFF. I think the Jaguars suck has spread to the users on this forum. It is a bad place to be. Any ounce of positivity and people will shoot you down. It's funny I was once looked at as the "negative" person. Funny times!
(10-08-2021, 05:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 04:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Thats my point, its Cullens scheme. What do you mean by assigned coverage duty? Man up on a WR/TE? or you saying hes a liability in zone as well. So far this season i think he is down the list as a liabilty on the D.
Zone or man. He's a liability in coverage.
Nothing wrong with Cullen's scheme if you've got two safeties who can cover well enough that you don't have to put one in "prevent" 30 yards back while the rest of the secondary is playing "cover 1 man" or "cover 3 zone" in normal positional formation.
Not getting Cisco on the field over this guy seems similar to this staff not understanding thatPop James Robinson was available to take pressure off of Lawrence for two weeks. Only we're going on week 5.
It says more about our corners than anything outside of Griffin, it's clear Cullen is worried about them getting beat deep. Cisco is unproven rookie, Robinson was a guy that just got over 1000 yrds in 14 games and our best player, not the same at all lol. Cisco has a actually had some playing time. I've seen him in there a number of times I don't recall him making a play. Cisco is the future but Wingard has been much improved from last year I like what I've seen so far, you can question the play calling in the 2nd halfs though
(10-08-2021, 05:18 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 03:54 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]This forum is a sad, sad place these days.
I"m thinking the same thing. It is such a cesspool. It's hard to argue he has been our best player on defense this season. PFF is respected by many coaches and experts. Instead of giving Wingard some credit they are too busy whining about PFF. I think the Jaguars suck has spread to the users on this forum. It is a bad place to be. Any ounce of positivity and people will shoot you down. It's funny I was once looked at as the "negative" person. Funny times!
A few had there mind already made up before the season started so it doesn't really matter how he plays they wanted him gone. I was one that thought we should of cut him as well but 4 games in I'm glad we didn't, he's been a nice surprise
(10-08-2021, 05:28 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 05:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Zone or man. He's a liability in coverage.
Nothing wrong with Cullen's scheme if you've got two safeties who can cover well enough that you don't have to put one in "prevent" 30 yards back while the rest of the secondary is playing "cover 1 man" or "cover 3 zone" in normal positional formation.
Not getting Cisco on the field over this guy seems similar to this staff not understanding thatPop James Robinson was available to take pressure off of Lawrence for two weeks. Only we're going on week 5.
It says more about our corners than anything outside of Griffin, it's clear Cullen is worried about them getting beat deep. Cisco is unproven rookie, Robinson was a guy that just got over 1000 yrds in 14 games and our best player, not the same at all lol. Cisco has a actually had some playing time. I've seen him in there a number of times I don't recall him making a play. Cisco is the future but Wingard has been much improved from last year I like what I've seen so far, you can question the play calling in the 2nd halfs though
(10-08-2021, 05:18 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I"m thinking the same thing. It is such a cesspool. It's hard to argue he has been our best player on defense this season. PFF is respected by many coaches and experts. Instead of giving Wingard some credit they are too busy whining about PFF. I think the Jaguars suck has spread to the users on this forum. It is a bad place to be. Any ounce of positivity and people will shoot you down. It's funny I was once looked at as the "negative" person. Funny times!
A few had there mind already made up before the season started so it doesn't really matter how he plays they wanted him gone. I was one that thought we should of cut him as well but 4 games in I'm glad we didn't, he's been a nice surprise
LOL
How do you guys not see this every week?
It took me 15 sec of looking at the very first defensive series from last week for an example of your 9th best safety in "coverage"
First shot is immediately after snap, second shot is him backpedaling so deep the all22 camera can't even see him.
![[Image: wingard1.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/L8P59Ttk/wingard1.png)
![[Image: wingard2.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/TYz24DzK/wingard2.png)
Sorry.
He ain't good y'all.
(10-08-2021, 05:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 05:28 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It says more about our corners than anything outside of Griffin, it's clear Cullen is worried about them getting beat deep. Cisco is unproven rookie, Robinson was a guy that just got over 1000 yrds in 14 games and our best player, not the same at all lol. Cisco has a actually had some playing time. I've seen him in there a number of times I don't recall him making a play. Cisco is the future but Wingard has been much improved from last year I like what I've seen so far, you can question the play calling in the 2nd halfs though
A few had there mind already made up before the season started so it doesn't really matter how he plays they wanted him gone. I was one that thought we should of cut him as well but 4 games in I'm glad we didn't, he's been a nice surprise
LOL
How do you guys not see this every week?
It took me 15 sec of looking at the very first defensive series from last week for an example of your 9th best safety in "coverage"
First shot is immediately after snap, second shot is him backpedaling so deep the all22 camera can't even see him.
Sorry.
He ain't good y'all.
I never said he wasnt playing deep at all. So you think this is form Wingard free lancing to far back instead of not by design?
Here is another one just later in the SAME drive.
![[Image: wingard-3.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/k5dQqDb4/wingard-3.png)
(10-08-2021, 05:43 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 05:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
How do you guys not see this every week?
It took me 15 sec of looking at the very first defensive series from last week for an example of your 9th best safety in "coverage"
First shot is immediately after snap, second shot is him backpedaling so deep the all22 camera can't even see him.
Sorry.
He ain't good y'all.
I never said he wasnt playing deep at all. So you think this is form Wingard free lancing to far back instead of not by design?
I'm not going to keep repeating myself, but there are two possible reasons why he is constantly too deep to influence a play when he's in any sort of deep zone. (single high, or playing one half of the backend)
1 - He retreats too far consistently because he's afraid of something getting past him
2 - His coaches are instructing him to pedal deeper because they know he's a [BLEEP] liability in coverage if he can't keep it all in front of him
Take your pick
You never see Jenkins doing this
Sadly I believe if he had short hair and a normal last name no one would have joked about him.. He's quietly been making plays since he got here.. not to mention he sealed our only win in the last 2 seasons by intercepting Phillip in 2020.
(10-08-2021, 05:18 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2021, 03:54 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]This forum is a sad, sad place these days.
I"m thinking the same thing. It is such a cesspool. It's hard to argue he has been our best player on defense this season. PFF is respected by many coaches and experts. Instead of giving Wingard some credit they are too busy whining about PFF. I think the Jaguars suck has spread to the users on this forum. It is a bad place to be. Any ounce of positivity and people will shoot you down. It's funny I was once looked at as the "negative" person. Funny times!
What coaches and experts use PFF?
Anytime I hear pros talk about PFF it's always the same "how do they know..."
Coaches have access to every bit of film and know what plays are called. You think they're signing up for PFF premium to get player ratings?!
Are people really this dense?
(10-08-2021, 09:23 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2021, 08:57 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Can't really mess up when they put you so far deep at FS that it's almost impossible to screw up.
Lets see Cisco already.
Exactly. The dude was playing 20+ yards off of the ball against the Bengals.
And he had a near pick on the right sideline that was ruled out of bounds. Had another nice play in the first half to help end a Bengals drive, and he didn't miss a tackle or get hurdled ala Prosinski.
Dude has been solid, yes I want to see Cisco but Wingard is outplaying the level that Jarrod Wilson provided the last year or two, we have to acknowledge that the play of FS overall has improved last year to this year.
Wingard said ya'll are chumps