(10-19-2021, 10:52 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2021, 10:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If I heard Urbz correctly on the radio, I believe he said they gave Wingard a co-defensive player of the game designation for his play in London.
I seem to recall a couple of good plays from him in run support. Anyone remember a play in coverage?
Yes he did call him that He is suppose to drop that deep. Wingard haters Urbs call him one of the defense mvps
Oh dear Lawd.
If they seriously want their FS playing so far off the LOS that he can't stop a first down no matter what, then this defensive scheme is a failure.
(10-19-2021, 10:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If I heard Urbz correctly on the radio, I believe he said they gave Wingard a co-defensive player of the game designation for his play in London.
I seem to recall a couple of good plays from him in run support. Anyone remember a play in coverage?
I guess when your job is to drop 30+ yards deep and make a clean up tackle 35 yards down field on a TE that was running wide open across the middle, you had a good day
.gif "Laughing")
(10-20-2021, 12:39 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2021, 10:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If I heard Urbz correctly on the radio, I believe he said they gave Wingard a co-defensive player of the game designation for his play in London.
I seem to recall a couple of good plays from him in run support. Anyone remember a play in coverage?
I guess when your job is to drop 30+ yards deep and make a clean up tackle 35 yards down field on a TE that was running wide open across the middle, you had a good day
I can't wait to get a look at the all22 from the fins game so I can find Dewey's good plays (along with 20+ snaps of him backpedaling out of Tottenham Hotspur and halfway to the English Channel)
(10-20-2021, 12:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 12:39 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I guess when your job is to drop 30+ yards deep and make a clean up tackle 35 yards down field on a TE that was running wide open across the middle, you had a good day
I can't wait to get a look at the all22 from the fins game so I can find Dewey's good plays (along with 20+ snaps of him backpedaling out of Tottenham Hotspur and halfway to the English Channel)
I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
(10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 12:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I can't wait to get a look at the all22 from the fins game so I can find Dewey's good plays (along with 20+ snaps of him backpedaling out of Tottenham Hotspur and halfway to the English Channel)
I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
If Wingard is lined up too deep for your taste, that's not on Wingard, that's on Cullen. Right?
We havent been burned deep in a while, but it's been a lot of mid level completions picking apart the jags defense. Need to tighten it up
(10-20-2021, 04:34 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
If Wingard is lined up too deep for your taste, that's not on Wingard, that's on Cullen. Right?
That doesn't fit the narrative, though.
Seriously, though, I don't understand how this board can spew this much venom at Wingard because the golden boy Cisco isn't getting PT, but we hear crickets about Jawann Taylor's superior play keeping little on the bench. It's dumbfounding.
(10-20-2021, 08:15 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 04:34 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If Wingard is lined up too deep for your taste, that's not on Wingard, that's on Cullen. Right?
That doesn't fit the narrative, though.
Seriously, though, I don't understand how this board can spew this much venom at Wingard because the golden boy Cisco isn't getting PT, but we hear crickets about Jawann Taylor's superior play keeping little on the bench. It's dumbfounding.
I don't think this is fully about football. It's also about that Wingard is a white guy with long hair playing in the secondary.
(10-20-2021, 06:07 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]We havent been burned deep in a while, but it's been a lot of mid level completions picking apart the jags defense. Need to tighten it up
I think that's the entire point of is thread, talking about Wingard playing 25-30 yards off of the line of scrimmage and getting killed by the 7-15 yard routes. This is like the Lakers playing all of their big men last night, getting killed by the 3s and stating at least Golden State hasn't dunked on us.
Oddly enough, the Miami game was a reverse image of our prior games in which the D looked good in the 1st half and sucked in the 2nd half. Still not sure how Miami choked away the 2nd half of that game last week.
(10-20-2021, 08:15 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 04:34 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If Wingard is lined up too deep for your taste, that's not on Wingard, that's on Cullen. Right?
That doesn't fit the narrative, though.
Seriously, though, I don't understand how this board can spew this much venom at Wingard because the golden boy Cisco isn't getting PT, but we hear crickets about Jawann Taylor's superior play keeping little on the bench. It's dumbfounding.
Taylor has been called out repeatedly in multiple threads and many of us have openly "spewed venom" at this staff for the weeks when Little was a healthy scratch. Let's not get it twisted, please. I have zero "narrative" on Wingard. I just know he's not a quality starter and we have a rookie with way more upside languishing on the bench.
As the weeks wear on - it is indeed looking more and more like Wingard's ridiculously ineffective play style in zone coverage is a product of scheme and coaching moreso than just Wingard freelancing well beyond the typical FS backpedal.
We'll likely learn more on this soon, but thats's what it looks like and that has been speculated upon SEVERAL times here.
The kid is decent around the LOS, he plays hard and occasionally makes a positive play, but don't you think if he was faster and took better lines to the football they wouldn't drop him so deep that he can't possibly come up in time to affect or prevent a first down conversion on an 15 yard in-route?
Seriously, think about that for a second. When he drops, he is so deep that the literally one thing he can do is stop a TD if another back 7 player misses a tackle. That's not very effective use of a FS when you do it on any significant % of snaps.
That kind of bend but don't break play is very extreme and not in a good way.
Only explanations are:
- the scheme is completely broken (allows everything underneath to be open)
- they don't trust him to play closer to the line and potentially let one get by him
- a combination of the two above
(10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 12:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I can't wait to get a look at the all22 from the fins game so I can find Dewey's good plays (along with 20+ snaps of him backpedaling out of Tottenham Hotspur and halfway to the English Channel)
I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
(10-20-2021, 10:31 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
Everybody and their next door neighbor's sister in law knew more than Meyer when it came to the TE position in the offseason and how to use James Robinson in weeks 1 and 2.
Why can't Meyer (and Cullen for that matter) be screwing up the FS position as well?
Stands to reason from my perspective.
(10-20-2021, 10:31 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
Yeah cuz coaches/GM have never done things that are stupid and then keep doing them cuz they don't want to admit they are wrong.
Remember the QB competition?
Taven Bryan getting snaps until last week and still having a job.
James Robinson breaks out and they go draft a first round RB.
Jawan Taylor is still starting. Even if it ain't Little, put in Richardson geezus. (And no one should say Taylor is getting a pass by fans. That's stupid)
Wingard sucks.
Meyer sucks.
The roster management of this regime is maddening.
Play the rooks, get them snaps and experience.
How does a guy like Wingard get so many fan boys...
He isn't a QB. He isn't a pass rusher. He's some mediocre guy playing safety.
Why would you not want to see Cisco? He can't possibly be worse and the snaps would do him well.
(10-20-2021, 10:46 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 10:31 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
Everybody and their next door neighbor's sister in law knew more than Meyer when it came to the TE position in the offseason and how to use James Robinson in weeks 1 and 2.
Why can't Meyer (and Cullen for that matter) be screwing up the FS position as well?
Stands to reason from my perspective.
Exactly...
The TE, OL, CB, S all mishandled so far imo.
Also TLaw not getting all first team reps in TC.
(10-20-2021, 10:31 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
We all knew Myles Jack played better without the green dot than with a year ago, yet Meyer and co. apparently just figured it out a week or so ago. Maybe the coaches aren't particularly smart/knowledgeable after all.
we also don't know if Jack said he would play the Green Dot since Wilson was new and still learning the defense.
I get the splitting Reps with Minshew to try and Generate trade value but Minshew played bad in preseason so trade value went down. so it was a gamble. I would of given Tlaw all the snaps worth it in the long run.
only thing i question the most right now is the not playing Cisco over Wingard. maybe he still a bit injured and ready for full snaps i am not sure. but no way Wingard is outplaying him in Practice.
Little needs to go to RT cause Taylor doesn't seem to be improving at all. he has been terrible.
(10-20-2021, 10:31 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 01:06 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I want to say I remember seeing 1, maybe 2 tackles he made up around the line of scrimmage.
The rest was him late on over thrown balls that had a chance to be INT'd (for most FS in the league at least), or making a clean up tackle 30+ yards down field.
Other than that, he was so far deep and out of the play he might as well have not even been on the field.
But do please share your findings of the all22.
I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
Did someone hack your account or something?
(10-20-2021, 12:56 PM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]we also don't know if Jack said he would play the Green Dot since Wilson was new and still learning the defense.
I get the splitting Reps with Minshew to try and Generate trade value but Minshew played bad in preseason so trade value went down. so it was a gamble. I would of given Tlaw all the snaps worth it in the long run.
only thing i question the most right now is the not playing Cisco over Wingard. maybe he still a bit injured and ready for full snaps i am not sure. but no way Wingard is outplaying him in Practice.
Little needs to go to RT cause Taylor doesn't seem to be improving at all. he has been terrible.
How do you know Wingard is not outplaying Cisco in practice? How could you possibly know that?
(10-20-2021, 01:44 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 12:56 PM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]we also don't know if Jack said he would play the Green Dot since Wilson was new and still learning the defense.
I get the splitting Reps with Minshew to try and Generate trade value but Minshew played bad in preseason so trade value went down. so it was a gamble. I would of given Tlaw all the snaps worth it in the long run.
only thing i question the most right now is the not playing Cisco over Wingard. maybe he still a bit injured and ready for full snaps i am not sure. but no way Wingard is outplaying him in Practice.
Little needs to go to RT cause Taylor doesn't seem to be improving at all. he has been terrible.
How do you know Wingard is not outplaying Cisco in practice? How could you possibly know that?
Cisco no way would need to play 30 yards down the field just so he doesn't get beat. Cisco is also a Ball Hawk, had something like 15 picks in 24 games. both Winguard and Jenkins are Box Safeties. Cisco isn't. Cisco and Jenkins would be great together.
Winguard is a decent backup but not a long term starter in my opinion.
(10-20-2021, 12:39 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2021, 10:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If I heard Urbz correctly on the radio, I believe he said they gave Wingard a co-defensive player of the game designation for his play in London.
I seem to recall a couple of good plays from him in run support. Anyone remember a play in coverage?
I guess when your job is to drop 30+ yards deep and make a clean up tackle 35 yards down field on a TE that was running wide open across the middle, you had a good day
By the time the TE runs 35 yards downfield after a catch, they are flat out of steam and are probably glad to see Wingard stop them so they can get a rest.
(10-20-2021, 01:44 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 12:56 PM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]we also don't know if Jack said he would play the Green Dot since Wilson was new and still learning the defense.
I get the splitting Reps with Minshew to try and Generate trade value but Minshew played bad in preseason so trade value went down. so it was a gamble. I would of given Tlaw all the snaps worth it in the long run.
only thing i question the most right now is the not playing Cisco over Wingard. maybe he still a bit injured and ready for full snaps i am not sure. but no way Wingard is outplaying him in Practice.
Little needs to go to RT cause Taylor doesn't seem to be improving at all. he has been terrible.
How do you know Wingard is not outplaying Cisco in practice? How could you possibly know that?
Wait. Didn't Tebow outplay all of the TEs in practice? Also, his 3-cone drill was off the charts during the combine.
WE TALKIN BOUT PRACTICE. PRACTICE. PRACTICE. NOT THE GAME. NOT THE GAME. WE TALKIN BOUT PRACTICE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI
A.
1. Meyer who is a 8 figure paid head coach of a professional football team says Wingard is good.
2. PFF also backups Wingard is good.
vs
B.
1. The Duval Pride know it all couch GM's who have 0 coaching experience or knowledge.
Hmmm It's a hard choice but I think I will stick with A.
What is amazing that many of you who are crucifying Meyer already loved Dave Caldwell til his departure. Just bizarre!
(10-20-2021, 12:29 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2021, 10:31 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I guess you guys know more about wingard than Meyer
We all knew Myles Jack played better without the green dot than with a year ago, yet Meyer and co. apparently just figured it out a week or so ago. Maybe the coaches aren't particularly smart/knowledgeable after all.
Jack has played poor this year with and without the dot. He is under performing, period!